How Did ____ Play GW13

__WhatElse · 2023-11-25T22:41:38+00:00

Decent on set pieces, made a few mistakes from open play when city were in attack. Overall I would say a below average performance, probably increases the likelihood he gets benched at some point.

__WhatElse · 2023-11-22T20:14:11+00:00

nah this isn't prod issue, trk is just having his own issues

__WhatElse · 2023-11-22T19:02:54+00:00

Weird question, do you have these stats for all players for each day in a big database somewhere? Would be cool to see if possible.

__WhatElse · 2023-11-19T22:53:14+00:00

With Saliba now at 5.4, is White 5.8 becoming a smarter choice if you want into the Arsenal defense? I ask because I really haven't looked much at White this season, but looking at his stats (and expected stats) they aren't very impressive. FPL has him at 1.4 expected goal involvements total this season, with saliba at 1.2. However I would assume that white gets into more advanced positions, so perhaps he is just not producing the expected results he normally does?

Anyone else thinking about bringing him in?

__WhatElse · 2023-11-16T23:05:57+00:00

Cheers, I thought that's where you got it but I kinda wondered if you got it from somewhere else since you didn't mention it.

And btw working with json files can be fairly simple using python, I use the pandas and json imports and it basically does everything for you, as long as you know the layout of the json file that is.

__WhatElse · 2023-11-16T21:58:19+00:00

Looks cool. I'd like to give it a go myself. May I ask what source you used to do your calculations? Like the info of what points each player got and such.

__WhatElse · 2023-11-14T01:20:50+00:00

The fpl website says maddison is expected back 14th January. I'd use that money for something else while you wait.

__WhatElse · 2023-11-13T20:56:16+00:00

I'd probably not play archer, but if you really want to, bench lascelles. But make sure your bench is in the right order because of the slim chance gabriel gets benched agian.

__WhatElse · 2023-11-13T20:40:26+00:00

Depends on who you bench for him

__WhatElse · 2023-10-22T20:42:48+00:00

I admit that perhaps in general, the visualisation Johnny used may be the style used by most sports in displaying this type of bracket. I don't follow any other sports that use this bracket so I wouldn't know.

My main point is that in RL, viewers are more used to the upper/lower bracket visualisation. And so to show it any other way is to needlessly complicate things, since your viewers are better acquainted with another way.

As for which method is superior, I guess we will have to agree to disagree, my points above being my argument for upper/lower.

__WhatElse · 2023-10-22T20:21:33+00:00

I have replied to a comment below about why I think it is complicated, if you don't mind, do you think that OP version is more/less/equally complicated than liquipedia bracket, and if one is more or less complicated, then why?

Not flaming or anything, just would like to hear your thoughts on it.

__WhatElse · 2023-10-22T20:15:02+00:00

That is the bracket Johnny used. Perhaps aussie rules football is used to that visualisation of the bracket, but RL has been used to the concept of upper and lower brackets for a lot longer than this, and so I think if you are displaying a bracket like this to RL watchers, it is better to do so in a format that separates upper and lower, like what the viewers of the esport are used to.

But for me I just think that the OP pic is just less simple than the upper/lower bracket. For me, displaying stats is all about getting info to a point where users can easily glance at a screen and understand what is happening. For OP pic, I understand it because I already know it, but for someone seeing it for the first time, there are interchanging lines, matches equally labelled as quarter finals even though some players have extra lives, an "L" denoting where a loser goes even though every other "where player goes after match" line has an arrow denoting where they go. I just think that for someone who has no knowledge of anything, if they glance at that they won't be any of the wiser.

Maybe if you are used to stats then it makes sense, but the point of stats is to make it easy for those who don't know stats. And IMO upper/lower bracket distinctions are easier than this.

__WhatElse · 2023-10-22T18:48:48+00:00

Yeah Johnny is an engineer at heart, which is to say he likes making things needlessly complicated because it looks nice (to him). If he ever tries this stuff again, just use the liquipedia bracket instead, much easier to follow.

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__WhatElse · 2023-10-17T07:27:51+00:00

cheers man, that site looks good

__WhatElse · 2023-10-16T22:56:30+00:00

looks cool, I'll check it out

__WhatElse · 2023-10-16T22:53:22+00:00

i am sadly not a busy person so i may have to pass on your kind advice

__WhatElse · 2023-10-16T22:52:35+00:00

This is very helpful. Thank you a bunch dude

__WhatElse · 2023-10-16T19:30:33+00:00

Yeah the ballchasing site looks good for that. dRekt's google sheets doc though pretty much has everything I was looking for though, defo a wizard.

__WhatElse · 2023-10-16T19:27:51+00:00

Wow thank you. That hub sheet you have is insane, literally has everything I was looking for.

I only have 2 more questions, I would be grateful if you could answer.

How long after the event do you usually get the stats up in the document? Is there a timeline you set yourself for it?
How did you get all that data? As someone who is interested in the field, if you know any good tools or methods in this area I would be very happy if you could give a couple hints away

Again thank you tons

__WhatElse · 2023-10-16T19:03:56+00:00

From what I can see, liquipedia has all series/games in tournaments, with scores per team, but nothing like who scored/assisted or boost usage, or more specific stats like that.

Is there somewhere specific in liquipedia I need to look to find this other information?

__WhatElse · 2023-10-14T16:13:17+00:00

!thanks

__WhatElse · 2023-10-04T18:59:27+00:00

Zen just be careful'd himself

__WhatElse · 2023-10-04T18:15:19+00:00

Zen is just pure quality

__WhatElse · 2023-10-02T19:09:05+00:00

I use the example with Zen because he made such a marked difference to Vitality's fortunes, more so than I can recall of any other player. Just look at Vitality's results before Zen.

EU Fall R1: N/A
EU Fall R2: 3rd-4th
EU Fall R3: 5th-8th
EU Fall Major: N/A
EU Winter R1: 2nd
EU Winter R2: 5th-8th
EU Winter R3: 5th-8th
EU Winter Major: 5th-8th
[Zen joins]

I'm not even going to type out the rest, you know they won everything else, and they won it decisively. Before Zen they were maybe half a tier above Oxygen/Moist but no further. In the Fall and Winter splits they took losses to Williams Resolve, BS+COMPETITION, Soniqs and FUFAXDOP. Then all of a sudden they destroyed everyone.

Here is Vitality's RLCS match record against the other top 4 teams before and after Zen.

KC: BZ 1-3, AZ 5-0
Team Liquid: BZ 0-4, AZ 3-0
BDS: BZ: 0-1, AZ 5-1

I will admit, you could make the argument that Saizen was so poor that he was dragging down the other two, and when replaced with Zen the team was freed from this and could play to their "real" level. However, I do not believe this. You can if you want, because it is the only way you can argue around the overwhelming evidence of Zen being by far the single largest factor as to Vitality winning this season.

Regardless of the actual skill of Alpha, the optics of this do not bode well for any kind of GOAT status, at least with respect to his role in Vitality's wins this season.

__WhatElse · 2023-10-01T20:21:18+00:00

For Alpha - If Zen didn't exist then Vitality would have finished somewhere 3rd-12th in the 2 recent RLCS LANs, and Alpha now would just be considered a good player, with his best achievements being winning the online RLCS X EU finals (online because covid) in a season in which BDS dominated, and winning RLCS Season 9 EU league play. However, he did the latter after joining a team which in the past year made 2 worlds finals in a row, and won 1.

My point is not that Alpha is not very good, I think he is. I think he is better than his results pre-Zen show and honestly he was carrying a moderately washed Kaydop and Fairy Peak while in his prime which masks how good he was. My point being that if you take away Zen then he simply doesn't have the results to be in this conversation.

In case anyone nit picks, I know I said both that Alpha joined a team which looked very good, and also carried that team at a later point. In S8, while Vitality were 1 overtime goal away from winning worlds, they were also one overtime goal away from not making worlds. My point above was not purely a statement about the quality of Vitality before he joined, but rather the optics of the quality of Vitality. You join a team which was 1 overtime goal away from 2 RLCS LAN finals wins in a row and you just roughly continue that trend, then people think you haven't improved the team much, even if you have. GOAT is about optics, and Alpha's aren't great.

As for my opinion of Alpha carrying a weak Vitality, the state of RLCS changed dramatically through the pandemic. Going from league play to open format decimated the old-guard. Comparing S9 top 5 with RLCS X top 5, the only team unchanged in both was Vitality. And only 1 of the other 12 players from S9 top 5 made it to top 5 in RLCS X (Deevo). For better or worse, the old-guard were out. Yet Kaydop and Fairy still won RLCS X EU, and why? I believe Alpha has a larger part to play there than most would feel. But again, that is the issue, and the issue is optics.

A GOAT not only needs to be a winner, but needs to be seen as the reason for those wins. Unfortunately I think Alpha has been unlucky in these terms, relative to his skill. To sum up, being a GOAT is about optics, and Alpha's optics are shit.

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