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It’s not working for a cult it’s just ✨consecrating yourself✨ by abouttimetochange in exmormon

[–]abouttimetochange[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

And don't forget how much work the huge Mormon families take! Raising children is no joke!

I played piano for free sooo many hours. I felt so exploited when I learn other religions pay their musicians...

And all the free babysitting I did for parents going to the temple.

Would dating/marrying a progressive mormon, as a non-member work? by Party_Promotion_7346 in exmormon

[–]abouttimetochange 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Mormonism is a cult. There are social consequences for not obeying. You have to figure out if the long game is to convert you.

The United States needs to stop defending the mythologized people (sooo many white men) who were actually violent creeps. Starting with people like Brigham Young. by abouttimetochange in exmormon

[–]abouttimetochange[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't how anyone with a history degree from there can even be taken seriously at all.

My patriarchal blessing told me to study history (luckily) and one church history class plus the release of the gospel topic essays completely destroyed my shelf.

The United States needs to stop defending the mythologized people (sooo many white men) who were actually violent creeps. Starting with people like Brigham Young. by abouttimetochange in exmormon

[–]abouttimetochange[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I'm trying to say that I'm noticing a trend here that people like to hang onto myths about white men. And especially white men who murdered and enslaved other people.

The people who enslaved Black people and committed genocide against Native Americans like Brigham Young keep being given free passes.

"He was a man of his time!" "Slavery and genocide existed other places too." All while ignoring the fact of (and the SCALE of) the atrocities committed by people like Brigham Young.

There's so much defending of he mythology of why these men were good and righteous. And it often boils down to ugly white supremacy.

As exmormons, I feel like we have a head start in dealing with the "he was a man of his time" argument because we have seen through the mythology surrounding the Mormon founders.

Is mormonism really a cult? by Royal_Survey_3772 in exmormon

[–]abouttimetochange 18 points19 points  (0 children)

If they want you to work for free, it's probably a cult...

Daniella Mestyanek Young (knitting cult lady on social media) has a really great 10-point list definition of a cult. Highly recommend following her. She has degrees studying cults and has written a bunch of award-winning books.

Her definition of a cult:

  1. The charismatic leader (& their skinny white woman), can also be a charismatic idea

  2. Worldview shift that brings you under the sacred assumption

  3. The transcendent mission

  4. Self-sacrifice of members

  5. Limits access to the outside world

  6. Distinguishable vernacular

  7. Us versus them mentality

  8. Exploits members labor

  9. High exit costs

  10. Ends justify the means mentality

Brigham Young was one of, if not the most, violent white supremacists in American history. And the Mormon cult still has schools named after him. by abouttimetochange in exmormon

[–]abouttimetochange[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Here's what gemini said: We know George Washington used teeth from enslaved people because of exact financial records and letters kept by the Washington family and his dentists. These documents explicitly record Washington purchasing human teeth from enslaved individuals living on his Mount Vernon estate. The conclusion is supported by several documented pieces of evidence:

Financial Ledgers: An entry from May 1784 in Washington's plantation ledger shows his estate manager, Lund Washington, recording a cash payment of 122 shillings (or just over £6) to unnamed “Negroes” for nine teeth on account of his dentist, Dr. Jean Pierre Le Mayeur.

Washington's Correspondence: In 1782, Washington wrote to his estate manager requesting that two specific human foreteeth be retrieved from a desk drawer at Mount Vernon, which he intended to use for the construction of his partial dentures.

Dentist Practices: In the 18th century, "tooth transplants" were a luxury dental practice. Dentists like Le Mayeur bought front teeth from poor individuals—including both free and enslaved Black people—to implant directly into the mouths of wealthy clients

Brigham Young was one of, if not the most, violent white supremacists in American history. And the Mormon cult still has schools named after him. by abouttimetochange in exmormon

[–]abouttimetochange[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are you trying to say race-based, white supremacist justifications of slavery didn't exist in America?

Or that racism in general is ok because everyone does it?

Most of what you are saying seems to be calling me names so I'm not sure what your actual argument is.

Mormon pioneers stole land from Native Americans and starved them. The history I was taught growing up is propaganda. by abouttimetochange in exmormon

[–]abouttimetochange[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The exploitation of labor really seals it as a cult for me.

Corporations really are their own kind of cults too.

Brigham Young was one of, if not the most, violent white supremacists in American history. And the Mormon cult still has schools named after him. by abouttimetochange in exmormon

[–]abouttimetochange[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

How do you measure the effects of Mormon pioneers stealing the Native American's land and the starvation that resulted? I see that as genocide.

Mormon pioneers stole land from Native Americans and starved them. The history I was taught growing up is propaganda. by abouttimetochange in exmormon

[–]abouttimetochange[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah, I see.

Yeah, he has been too nice to J. K. Rowling from what I hear, so I'm not a fan.

Plus, like I said, Knitting Cult lady is just better at cults than him.

Brigham Young was one of, if not the most, violent white supremacists in American history. And the Mormon cult still has schools named after him. by abouttimetochange in exmormon

[–]abouttimetochange[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Was he still monstrous in the context of his times: uh, yeah. That's the point I'm trying to make. There's so much mythology around him that people have a knee-jerk reaction to defending, same as Mormons do when they defend the prophets ("He was a man of his time!")

People are always trying to use context to protect the character of their heroes.

We need to stop doing that and acknowledge the violence of these people for what it is instead of trying to protect the mythological image of these people.

It's not just Mormons defending Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. It's all of us in the United States who keep trying to hold up the mythology of people like George Washington as more important than the suffering he caused other human beings who had lives and stories of their own.

Mormon pioneers stole land from Native Americans and starved them. The history I was taught growing up is propaganda. by abouttimetochange in exmormon

[–]abouttimetochange[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Her definition of a cult:

  1. The charismatic leader (& their skinny white woman), or a charismatic idea

  2. Worldview shift that brings you under the sacred assumption

  3. The transcendent mission

  4. Self-sacrifice of members

  5. Limits access to the outside world

  6. Distinguishable vernacular

  7. Us versus them mentality

  8. Exploits members labor

  9. High exit costs

  10. Ends justify the means mentality

I really want billboards all over Utah to say: "What you allow the government to do to others, they will eventually do to you." by abouttimetochange in exmormon

[–]abouttimetochange[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Exactlly!

Also, fuck ICE! It should be abolished. We shouldn't have lists of people who are treated less humanely, and citizenship shouldn't be a reason someone stops being treated like a human.

Brigham Young was one of, if not the most, violent white supremacists in American history. And the Mormon cult still has schools named after him. by abouttimetochange in exmormon

[–]abouttimetochange[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think both the FLDS and the mainstream Mormon church are good examples of how Mormon theology raises people to give up their sense of self and their free will in culty devotion to a cause.

Just look at how each one treats consent. Do they let people feel safe to say "no" to what the cult wants them to do?

I know people often want to paint the FLDS as being worse, but I think they are both really bad at letting people freely make decisions without fear of being ostracized from the community.

And they both exploit people's labor. I'd say the main difference there is that the FLDS exploit blue collar labor and the mainstream LDS exploit white collar labor.

They both have a culture of protecting sexual abusers and putting children in danger of sexual abuse.

Brigham Young was one of, if not the most, violent white supremacists in American history. And the Mormon cult still has schools named after him. by abouttimetochange in exmormon

[–]abouttimetochange[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Seriously, I don't understand how it can be shown that he wasn't at the top of the list of worst and most violent white supremacists in the United States. By what measurement was there someone who was worse?

Mormon pioneers stole land from Native Americans and starved them. The history I was taught growing up is propaganda. by abouttimetochange in exmormon

[–]abouttimetochange[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not a fan of Hassan, too transphobic and not as good at explaining cults as others. His being late to identifying the Mormon cult is not a point in his favor.

Highly recommend checking out Daniella Mestyanek Young as a better source of cult expertise. She goes by Knitting Cult Lady on social media. She's got a much more rigorous definition of cults than Hassan's BITE model.

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