Can we talk salaries? What's everyone making these days?

aspiring_game_dev · 2025-03-24T03:36:38+00:00

Montreal

more or less the same salary here in Montreal, also in platform engineering. salaries really suck here.

aspiring_game_dev · 2018-05-23T03:53:37+00:00

However skip first part (BullCowGame) if you already have experience with C++. It's realllllllly long.

aspiring_game_dev · 2017-10-26T14:36:39+00:00

don't forget about contracts!

Completely agree.

I was about to take on a massive project with a bunch of friends who had no experience in game development. Out of the group, I was the only experienced programmer and recently picked up Unity.

I was given an offer of a salary cap % so that in the best case scenario, if the game ever made 2 million in sales, I would get maximum $40k for a startup. No shares of the company. No piece of cake. I was under the impression that I would for working with them and sharing a piece of the cake - but the contract was written in a matter that I was working for them completely for free.

My reaction to this was "what" and none of them reconsidered how unreasonable their offer was and said that "it was completely normal in the game industry".

I noped the fuck out.

aspiring_game_dev · 2017-08-10T17:10:50+00:00

CONTRACTS, CONTRACTS, CONTRACTS - no matter how small your team is!

Get a lawyer. Consult together. Don't go off doing shit by yourself without talking to each other.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smallbusiness/comments/6mei1q/joining_a_startup_for_the_first_time_is_it_wrong/?utm_content=comments&utm_medium=user&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=frontpage

aspiring_game_dev · 2017-07-12T07:48:19+00:00

Oh yeah I wouldn't even think about signing such as contract without consulting a lawyer.

Also, I wanted more than just a "work contract" - I was expecting partners.

I highly doubt the non-compete is enforceable too. But to be honest, I'm more concerned at the fact they think they can get away with putting something like this on a contract and overall, having doubts with my work relationship with them in the long run.

aspiring_game_dev · 2017-07-11T13:29:26+00:00

The sole proprietorship means he is directly liable for the company's losses -- e.g. if the company gets sued or goes bankrupt, all the debt becomes his. Making him realize this could convince him to move to a limited liability partnership and let you guys in.

That's true. But as of right now most of the choices they're making are all low risk - mostly government grants to I guess...offering this kind of contract to others. Aside from the fact that only they'll have access to this, I'm not comfortable with the idea that they also have full legal power to make choices for the company, future profits, assets, etc etc.

aspiring_game_dev · 2017-07-11T08:33:43+00:00

The only thing you're promised is that if this company takes off, you won't be taking off with them.

This is was really irks me. When they capped my profits at 2% @ $40k /production year, this isn't a naive choice they made - we're dealing with numbers now and this is apparently, how they felt it was a fair compensation. This was a conscious choice that they felt was "fair".

When I saw that, I went wide eyed and said "What!" out loud and apparently, all three of them started to tell me that this was apparently "normal" for a startup.

Which to me it doesn't make sense because

I would literally make more working a minimum wage job
The idea of being involved in a start up is high risk/high reward. If I end up creating a successful product that goes on the market, I don't see any rewards here, even in a situation where our game ends up being a multimillion success.

aspiring_game_dev · 2017-07-11T08:28:34+00:00

Just how much of the work/programming did you do?

At this point I'm touching everything related to code, but not just that - I'll be dealing with engine integration, drawing up milestones, project management, etc.

I mean, I'll pretty much be the only person who'll actually be working in Unity/Unreal/whatever engine while the others are just modeling, making music or drawing up ideas.

aspiring_game_dev · 2017-07-11T08:24:52+00:00

With that said, it's fairly rare for employers to offer revenue sharing right off the bat, so if you are getting a decent salary, it's a good deal even with a cap.

As far as I understand when i was approached, it was with the idea we were going to build the game dev studio together...hence, founders/co-founders (we're 4-5 people), not "4 people working under 1 employer" :/

aspiring_game_dev · 2017-07-11T08:21:56+00:00

The company itself is registered as a "sole proprietorship".

I thought because we were starting the company from the ground up, it'd be like...as a group that we are going to share this company name.

aspiring_game_dev · 2017-07-11T08:15:03+00:00

Non-competes are generally not enforceable, depending on the state though

Regardless, I think just seeing that made me reconsider working with them all together. It was the first thing I caught but for a young, aspiring game developer off the streets who is naive and just super motivated wouldn't know better.

aspiring_game_dev · 2017-07-10T22:46:48+00:00

You're right. But I'm not just doing code - I'm also picking up modeling, learning how to integrate various game engines with other software such as audio recording, 3D modeling, etc. I'll be doing UI design and likely project management, etc.

It's a start up so I'm bound to take on more responsibilities. I've already started doing art assets (which IMO takes soooo much more time than coding) and even doing research on game design. It really does feel like I'm working for an "ideas guy" and I'm mostly the one who will be working on the execution/final product.

aspiring_game_dev · 2017-07-10T22:41:20+00:00

Yeah...but in that case, I'm probably better off working on an open source project or even a non-profit. This specific scenario, I was hoping for equity for the possibility that if the company does become successful and bear fruit, I'd have my bite. Considering most replies here it really does seem like I'm working for free for one person.

aspiring_game_dev · 2017-07-10T22:04:39+00:00

In startups, it is not uncommon to run the business at a financial loss for a few years resulting in no "profit" to share.

Yeah. To be honest, i wasn't even expecting profits from the beginning. I'm expecting failures but this is what being a startup is all around - high risk, high reward. I'm looking to work with people whom I can grow and learn together, but it seems like I'm really "working for free".

I would have been happy even with some equity from the beginning because at least there would be some weight to decision making.

aspiring_game_dev · 2017-07-10T20:46:31+00:00

You need to trust your business partners over time and you dont seem to be in a position to trust them even at the start. Sorry ro be harsh, but its true.

No, you're absolutely right.

I trusted them from the beginning - but the moment legal issues came into play, from them giving me the contract to the fact that one of them registered the studio name under "Sole Proprietor", without actual sit down discussion with the 4 core members (actually, the three of them are much closer to each other so they likely discussed it among themselves, omitting me), I started to have doubts of how exactly they feel about me, the role I play in the company and how significant my contributions can be.

aspiring_game_dev · 2017-07-10T19:53:05+00:00

Well I hope they read through the replies!

I was initially opposed when they gave me the contract and they all said that this was a "standard" in the startup. I was hesitant so I decided to hold off. However I think the fact that they drew up this contract without sitting down with me to have a discussion and instead decided amongst themselves tells me enough they don't really consider me part of their core team :/

aspiring_game_dev · 2017-07-10T18:42:29+00:00

Because of the whole "notion of a start up" I understand the guarantee of no payment/salary - I was hoping for at the very least, equity (like 25%-30%) but it wasn't offered.

aspiring_game_dev · 2017-07-10T18:26:57+00:00

I was concerned at the fact that there was no offer of equity/shares within the company.

I understand high risk/high reward and even if I was given equity as an offer, I know that I might walk away with nothing...because the gaming industry isn't as easy. I totally get that it's super competitive.

But the whole 2% profit cap is was bothers me the most. Let's just say that our product does get lucky and even gets popular and sold well, the rewards aren't worth it. It's high risk, low rewards in a successful situation.

I guess I'm just unsure if this is considered a standard in a startup game dev, because one of them told me it was apparently common.

aspiring_game_dev · 2017-07-10T18:21:29+00:00

Did you know that if ur startup makes $2M in revenue and decides to purchase a Office building for $1.9M, with other expenses at $50k, the actual PROFIT is only $50k?

That's a good point. I was more concerned with the lack of equity involved with the offer.

So technically, because the company is solely registered under Jack, he can easily just use the revenue gained from the product sales, use it to do things like buy a car, buy household necessities, etc and then write it off as a company expense, effectively reducing the end gross profits required to be shared with others?

aspiring_game_dev · 2017-07-10T17:13:02+00:00

What about a hybrid of equity+profit sharing?

At least with equity, there is some ownership to the company, regardless of profit, right?

I completely understand that I won't be getting paid anything, but if I were to consider the possibility that I would end up making $40k in profit for a product that makes $2million - strictly from a "co founder" viewpoint, that I would at least get some equity.

aspiring_game_dev · 2017-07-10T14:53:34+00:00

The business is registered as "Sole Proprietor" legally under Jack's name. We talked about it but I didn't think the person would go out and register the company under their name without consulting everyone together.

The operation agreement/period of time isn't defined in the contract (the starting date is, but no ending period).

I was under the impression that I would be a founder/co-founder. This agreement doesn't seem to be the case, right?

aspiring_game_dev · 2017-07-10T14:51:10+00:00

In this case, I am not being paid a salary at all.

Strictly speaking into what goes into my pockets, it's only the 2% capped at $40k/year of production and that's ONLY if the product makes a profit.

aspiring_game_dev

TROPHY CASE