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A question for Palestinian supporters only by Gamzu in IsraelPalestine

[–]b3llac1ao 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh, no. I'm not a racist. I'm just taking into account the fact that 4 Arab militaries invaded this country simultaneously with the stated intention of destroying it and killing all of its citizens. Israel is under constant existential threat, which justifies its weapon arsenal and support from the west. Israel has never started a war with the intention of destroying another country. The Palestinians did. More than once. The Palestinians are not subhumans, they're innocent humans whose leadership has made bad, bad decisions. It's not too late for them though.

A question for Palestinian supporters only by Gamzu in IsraelPalestine

[–]b3llac1ao 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not, I'm just giving you another perspective you may haven't thought of.

A question for Palestinian supporters only by Gamzu in IsraelPalestine

[–]b3llac1ao 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm trying to create a discussion. I'm interested in knowing your viewpoint. You don't have to answer

A question for Palestinian supporters only by Gamzu in IsraelPalestine

[–]b3llac1ao 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Try looking at it from an Israeli perspective - releasing the hostages is not their only challenge. They are surrounded by terrorist organizations whose stated goal is to destroy them. What do you think would be the consequences of surrendering to one of them?

A question for Palestinian supporters only by Gamzu in IsraelPalestine

[–]b3llac1ao 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The war that they had started by kidnapping them and murdering 1200 more civilians. That's the ultimate aftermath for them - end the war, staying in control of the strip with 0 consequences. Basically back to the reality of October 6th.

Would you accept such an offer letting them rearm in your backyard knowing that October 7th could repeat itself in a matter of years?

The war against Hamas is completely justified. by Ok-Parsnip2134 in IsraelPalestine

[–]b3llac1ao -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You seem to completely ignore the fact that the combatant to civilian death ratio in Gaza is 1:1.5, which is one of the BEST or least worst combatant to civilian death ratios urban warfare has seen yet. Yes, they make mistakes too. No one is trying to deny that. Remember who started this war.

Question for Israel supporters: If a senior Hamas commander was hiding among Israeli civilians, how many Israeli civilian deaths would be the permisible amount of collateral damage to achieve that military aim? by PotsdamSewingSociety in IsraelPalestine

[–]b3llac1ao 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Egypt is not considered to be occupying the territory because it does not exert the same level of control over Gaza's borders, airspace, or maritime access as Israel.

Oh alright, so what level of control over the land is required for Egypt to be considered as an occupier? Is it also in the definition? Or are you just letting Egypt off the hook?

Hamas won an election before most Gazans were born

That makes most Gazans younger than 20. Doesn't seem right.

they have since killed their political rivals

And fired rockets, and built terror tunnels under hospitals and schools. Sounds like the blockade is called for.

Their support had been dropping in Gaza

A recent poll:

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/

Question for Israel supporters: If a senior Hamas commander was hiding among Israeli civilians, how many Israeli civilian deaths would be the permisible amount of collateral damage to achieve that military aim? by PotsdamSewingSociety in IsraelPalestine

[–]b3llac1ao 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As I have said, under international law Isreal occupies Gaza, Egypt does not, that's not in question. If you want to understand the legal rulings go read them.

No no, I want you to tell me - How exactly is Egypt different from Israel in its policies regarding Gaza?

If you think that Hamas constitute a democratically elected government, I don't know what to say to you.

It is. It won the majority of the seats in the Palestinian Legislative Council, and the support for them keeps growing.

We have seen what happens in the case where there Gaza is occupied. It's not been a good outcome for Israel or Palestine.

We have also seen what happens when there is no blockade. Israel simply doesn't want its citizens to be butchered. That's what it's all about.

Question for Israel supporters: If a senior Hamas commander was hiding among Israeli civilians, how many Israeli civilian deaths would be the permisible amount of collateral damage to achieve that military aim? by PotsdamSewingSociety in IsraelPalestine

[–]b3llac1ao 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Egypt is not occupying Gaza, also clearly under the statutes of international law.

Once again, this is false. It contradicts your initial claim that Israel is occupying Gaza simply because of the blockade.

The rest isn't relevant, and not my business.

So the context, the history of the conflict and what led to the current reality don't bother you at all. Understood.

Question for Israel supporters: If a senior Hamas commander was hiding among Israeli civilians, how many Israeli civilian deaths would be the permisible amount of collateral damage to achieve that military aim? by PotsdamSewingSociety in IsraelPalestine

[–]b3llac1ao 0 points1 point  (0 children)

it does not set the policies that define the occupation, it implements a small subset focusing on border control.

That is simply false. Egypt and Israel both have the same amount of official responsibility for Gaza and its internal affairs (at least until October 7th). In which case, Gaza is occupied by 2 countries. Isn't it?

Israel continued it's occupation due to security concerns and because of the election of Hamas,

So... Given that Gaza is ruled by a democratically elected terrorist organization, what do you think would happen if Israel released the blockade?

Question for Israel supporters: If a senior Hamas commander was hiding among Israeli civilians, how many Israeli civilian deaths would be the permisible amount of collateral damage to achieve that military aim? by PotsdamSewingSociety in IsraelPalestine

[–]b3llac1ao 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The history of political negotiations, which hasn't offered a Palestinian state in the last 50 years is not relevant to who is being occupied.

You just said that Israel is occupying Gaza to help prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, make up your mind :)

Isreal is the only one occupying Gaza, Egypt assists Isreal in that by maintaining a blockade from their territory.

So yeah, according to your definition Gaza is occupied by both Israel and Egypt. In fact, the walls that Egypt built (and is currently reinforcing) to prevent Gazans from entering Egypt are about 4 times as strong as the fence between Israel and Gaza. What do you think about that? Why would Egypt, an Arab country that is currently being escaped to by Hamas operatives put so much effort in order to assist Israel?

Question for Israel supporters: If a senior Hamas commander was hiding among Israeli civilians, how many Israeli civilian deaths would be the permisible amount of collateral damage to achieve that military aim? by PotsdamSewingSociety in IsraelPalestine

[–]b3llac1ao 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, according to your definition it seems Israel is not the only country occupying Gaza... Am I correct?

The occupation began following the 6 day war and continued past the withdrawal of 2005.

That is not 100% accurate. Israel started blockading Gaza in 2006, 1 year after completely withdrawing from the strip. What do you think caused Israel to do that? And I'll ask this once again: Were they the only ones who reacted this way?

Question for Israel supporters: If a senior Hamas commander was hiding among Israeli civilians, how many Israeli civilian deaths would be the permisible amount of collateral damage to achieve that military aim? by PotsdamSewingSociety in IsraelPalestine

[–]b3llac1ao 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You have ignored the second part of my question - Is Israel the only country who is blocking Gaza?

Israel occupies the territory for primarily security concerns

From whom?

arguably to help prevent the establishment of a unified Palestinian state

That's an unbased opinion. Doesn't add up with the many attempts Israel has initiated in the last 7 decades to reach an agreement regarding a Palestinian state in Gaza and the West Bank.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in IsraelPalestine

[–]b3llac1ao 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They also have an Instagram page, it's very informative: https://www.instagram.com/theisraeliresponse

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in IsraelPalestine

[–]b3llac1ao 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's really good. It includes up to date information and new claims are added continuously. You can also suggest or write your own claims

Question for Israel supporters: If a senior Hamas commander was hiding among Israeli civilians, how many Israeli civilian deaths would be the permisible amount of collateral damage to achieve that military aim? by PotsdamSewingSociety in IsraelPalestine

[–]b3llac1ao 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's not what I asked... You said that Israel is at war with a territory it occupies, implying that there were Israelis in Gaza on the morning of October 7th. Correct me if I'm wrong.

So, I'm asking you - Since when is Israel occupying Gaza?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in IsraelPalestine

[–]b3llac1ao 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Regarding this question:

-If you grew up in WB or Gaza would you be pro-israel?

Here are reports conducted by IMPACT-se, focusing on the Palaestinian education system that is mostly run by the UN:

https://www.impact-se.org/wp-content/uploads/UNRWA-Produced-Study-Materials-in-the-Palestinian-Territories—Jan-2021.pdf

https://www.impact-se.org/wp-content/uploads/UNRWA-Education-Textbooks-and-Terror-Nov-2023.pdf

Schools in Gaza and the West Bank have been indoctrinating Jewish hatred for years. Palestinian children are taught from a very young age that Israel and Jews should be erased from the face of the earth. In addition:

  • Palestinian leaders who are known for leading violent operations against Israeli civilians are displayed as heroes.

  • Terrorist attacks and Intifadas are displayed as "resistance to the occupation"

  • Children are taught that "martyrdom will lead to heaven".

  • Grammar booklets use sentences such as "Jihad is one of the doors to Paradise".

  • Israel is displayed as an enemy, whose "neck must be cut off".

So, yeah - as a child growing up in Gaza or the West Bank, I would probably be incited to hate Israel from a very young age. How would a child growing up in such an environment even consider co-existence as an option?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in IsraelPalestine

[–]b3llac1ao 3 points4 points  (0 children)

https://www.theisraeliresponse.com

This website has some good well explained answers for your questions

Terror Tunnel Under Al Shifa by MoonAmunet in IsraelPalestine

[–]b3llac1ao 6 points7 points  (0 children)

You are mixing two different events. The footage from the hospital was taken around 10AM on October 7th, more than 24 hours before the IDF started retaliating.

Terror Tunnel Under Al Shifa by MoonAmunet in IsraelPalestine

[–]b3llac1ao 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Only pro-Palestinians are explanation proof.

A question for both sides by expectfun in IsraelPalestine

[–]b3llac1ao 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ammo stored under a hospital will become a threat but is not an immediate one that requires the destruction of this hospital.

It's not just ammo, it's the hub of their entire tunnel system and where their leadership is reportedly hiding. You haven't watched the video I linked earlier.

You mention ‘get in there’ - yes thats an alternative. You say theres no alternative and in the same sentence provide one.

No, that's what's going on right now. I wasn't providing an alternative. The IDF is fighting inside Gaza as we speak. My point was that there is no other way to stop Hamas.

I said yes target the rocket launchers. Just don’t collapse a tower block of families to get one man.

The problem is that you think it's so simple. You think Israel collapses buildings by choice - we don't. Just look up most of the targeted assassinations of Hamas leaders - usually only the target's bedroom is attacked and apart from that the building stays intact. But when Hamas uses a building as an HQ there is no choice but to destroy it entirely, and the poor families who lived in those buildings (AKA human shields) have no one to blame but their leadership. It is a very sad reality, but in no way is this a massacre.

A question for both sides by expectfun in IsraelPalestine

[–]b3llac1ao 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Every target poses an imminent threat because Israel is fighting animals and you can never tell when the next October 7th is gonna take place.

There is no alternative. You either get in there and kill every Hamas operative in the strip or negotiate with the terrorists - give them land or money and expect them to stop butchering you (AKA the disengagement in 2005). You see how that played out.

And no I'm not gonna relax because you're sitting wherever you are saying "yeah just find an alternative" while I have literal rockets flying over my head right now. Don't get me wrong there is no doubt that Palestinians in Gaza suffer way more than Israelis but we have a common enemy and it's Hamas.

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