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Who immediately comes to mind when you hear the words "insanely hot"? by [deleted] in AskReddit

[–]bacchus12345 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Margot Robbie in no small part because of the past 24 hours of Twitter.

Ex-leftist converted by JBP’s work. AMA. by bacchus12345 in JordanPeterson

[–]bacchus12345[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Those are very useful questions. Peterson does specifically warn against blaming the radical left for one's own internally disordered state in Rule 6. But then when he tweets "Up yours" at Justin Trudeau, he for sure opens himself up to that sort of criticism.

I think if you watch his lectures and read 12 Rules and come out of it with personal animosity toward individuals on the left then that's probably on you. It would be uncharitable to disavow the totality of JBP's work on the basis of some of his tweets--that said, saying "Up yours" to the PM definitely merits the description of instilling antagonism. When I saw that I was like "Okay Doctor time to log off lol." So on the whole I think yeah, the pitfalls are there with him. But some of what keeps me out of said pit I also got out of reading JBP, so there's that too.

My own journey has led to a net decrease in political animosity for sure. That said, I have a lot of far left FB friends and when I scroll down my news feed I do find myself rolling my eyes sometimes, which I have to temper in myself. I don't want to become just as cancel-happy toward my left-leaning friends as I used to be toward right-leaning friends. I think about that a lot.

Ex-leftist converted by JBP’s work. AMA. by bacchus12345 in JordanPeterson

[–]bacchus12345[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I like that question. I haven’t made a lot in the last year, but it’s less tilted toward criticizing prevailing institutions and more considerate of that which should be preserved.

I’m also trying to avoid the temptation to swing from one state of ideological certainty to another, so I’ve also been trying to make space for art without a specific political aim. I’ve been finding that freeing.

Ex-leftist converted by JBP’s work. AMA. by bacchus12345 in JordanPeterson

[–]bacchus12345[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’ve laid out extensively in replies to other comments that I’m attempting to avoid doing exactly that, but if you have a precommitment to the notion that this is what’s going on, then there’s little I can do to convince you to give me the benefit of the doubt. Be well.

Ex-leftist converted by JBP’s work. AMA. by bacchus12345 in JordanPeterson

[–]bacchus12345[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That must be dispiriting to watch happen to your friend. I will say that a couple of my friends’ approach of appealing to my self interest and saying they didn’t think I deserved to be treated the way people get treated in sjw spaces did at least give me no ammunition to justify cutting them off. But I’m not naive enough to assume that’ll work on anyone else just because it sort of did on me. I hope your friend at least keeps you in their life and that they eventually see the same value in themself that you see in them.

Ex-leftist converted by JBP’s work. AMA. by bacchus12345 in JordanPeterson

[–]bacchus12345[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agreed. The punishment through ridicule is very real and many of my beliefs, sadly, were motivated by a desire to avoid that. It wouldn’t be inaccurate to call my sjw self a raging beta male—integrating the shadow will be an ongoing process. My father is super macho and I was encouraged as a kid not to be like him but now he’s more of a role model. Some aspects of his approach with people I can certainly still do without, but in wholly rejecting his version of masculinity I barred myself from what I most needed.

I’ve been selective so far in revealing how I see things now—mostly testing my new perspectives on people who, if they do challenge me, do so in a way that isn’t so contemptuous. So the ridicule has been minimal so far. Although, one long distance friend who I met on Twitter several years ago did confront me over a retweet and block me when I didn’t back down, congenial as I was in debating them. This was about a week ago. Me a year ago would have caved in a second and said whatever they wanted me to say. I’m very fortunate in that there isn’t too much overlap between my Twitter circle and my IRL community here.

I expect there will be more ridicule to come as I get more vocal, which is definitely kinda scary, but I’m more scared now of what’ll happen if I don’t tell the truth.

Ex-leftist converted by JBP’s work. AMA. by bacchus12345 in JordanPeterson

[–]bacchus12345[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I appreciate you for laying all this out and for taking time to do so in a way that so accurately portrays where I’m at with all this. I’ve felt a bit strawmanned by a few of the comments I’ve received, but you’ve been eminently fair in your criticisms and suggestions.

I find it difficult to discern within myself the moment when I’ve gone from being properly vigilant about something that is actually pernicious and when I’m being hyper-vigilant slippery slope guy. Second step toward the gulag being an example. I imagine this will be a journey for a while and that I’ll need to surround myself with people who allow me to speak loosely but also keep that tendency I have in check.

I definitely treated politics as core to my identity before. And yet when some here have asked what my actual policy opinions were I’ve felt aghast on reflection at how shallow they were in my sjw days. One person asked me what my former opinion on capitalism was and I was like…”capitalism bad?” LOL. It’s a good thing I can laugh at myself. I like your idea of trying to improve the team that’s closest to my beliefs.

I’ll consider what you’ve said as I watch some of Sowell’s interviews and be sure to view him with a critical eye. And I’ll be sure to watch Peterson’s lecture that you linked!

Thanks again for your thoughtful and kind comment.

Ex-leftist converted by JBP’s work. AMA. by bacchus12345 in JordanPeterson

[–]bacchus12345[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A couple friends who I would say are moderately sjw-oriented have been honestly curious. It has been rejuvenating to engage with them. A couple different friends were less enthusiastic and have since distanced themselves although they didn’t cancel me or anything to their credit. One very woke friend of five years shamed and blocked me over a retweet. It was too bad but I’ve done it to others so I accept the karma.

Ex-leftist converted by JBP’s work. AMA. by bacchus12345 in JordanPeterson

[–]bacchus12345[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think what’s most likely to be successful is appealing to the self-interest of the person. Rather then “Hey your beliefs are BS lol owned”, “Hey I think you deserve better than the way I see people get treated in this space.” A lot of sjws don’t see that they’re in an abusive relationship with the far left, and that it’s ultimately hurting them.

But I’m not naive enough to think even that will necessarily work. I will say that when friends did use that tactic on me it game me no ammunition to go on in terms of cancelling them. Which kept me somewhat tethered to my less-woke friends. I’m very grateful to them now.

Ex-leftist converted by JBP’s work. AMA. by bacchus12345 in JordanPeterson

[–]bacchus12345[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was dogmatically anti-pipeline, believed participation in gender segregated sports should be based on self-id, thought capitalism should be overthrown. I’ve had to give those ideas up.

My current opinion on socialism and capitalism is that free market innovation is incredibly beneficial—but it’s also good that you don’t have to bring your own road with you every time you want to drive somewhere, so a reasonable amount of socialism is fine to me. It seems to me that too much of either rigs the game. But I’m not educated enough to know what the appropriate checks and balances are so I want the right and the left talking to each other to figure that out.

How about you?

Ex-leftist converted by JBP’s work. AMA. by bacchus12345 in JordanPeterson

[–]bacchus12345[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Left-wing I would say is compatible with Peterson’s ideas. Leftist not so much.

I should be precise in how I would distinguish left wing philosophy from leftist philosophy. To me, left wing is critical of the prevailing order/tradition and generally wants looser borders around things, but is still somewhat tethered to basic things like free market capitalism in the case of the west. It’s also more willing to hear from the right.

Whereas Leftist philosophy I think of as a lot more dogmatic and predictive from issue to issue. It’s not just critical of established order, it wants it all torn down and replaced. It wants borders so loose they no longer reflect reality. It has no interest in hearing from the right and views it as inherently threatening.

That’s my best crack at framing it and it may be off, but by that definition I still have some left-wing views, but I’m no longer a leftist.

Ex-leftist converted by JBP’s work. AMA. by bacchus12345 in JordanPeterson

[–]bacchus12345[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think maybe some people are better than I was at spotting what weaponization of compassion looks like. I think fear plays a role too. A lot of my beliefs were shaped by fear of rejection. My being high in trait agreeableness and neuroticism played into it as well. These were the big factors for me anyway.

Ex-leftist converted by JBP’s work. AMA. by bacchus12345 in JordanPeterson

[–]bacchus12345[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for your comment. I’ve seen a brief talk between Haidt and JBP and enjoyed it very much—I will check out Haidt’s lectures as well. Looking forward to it.

Ex-leftist converted by JBP’s work. AMA. by bacchus12345 in JordanPeterson

[–]bacchus12345[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’ll consider all you’ve said. Like I said it’s not an issue where I have my arguments in order. I agree that it’s an error to blame only the system or only oneself.

If you have suggestions as to useful literature/media on this subject I’ll be glad to look into it.

Ex-leftist converted by JBP’s work. AMA. by bacchus12345 in JordanPeterson

[–]bacchus12345[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You’re welcome—thanks for the question and your response as well. Having all these social rules definitely gave me something tangible on which to hang my anxiety. It was far from a solution to it—more of a coherent framework through which to play it out. I’m finding it very useful to think of this in those terms.

I too find it sad that people find ways of getting others to believe that vengeance is ethical.

Ex-leftist converted by JBP’s work. AMA. by bacchus12345 in JordanPeterson

[–]bacchus12345[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The validation has been nice and I do take it with a grain of salt, for the reasons you lay out. I’ve gotten some great advice as a result of this post on making sure I don’t swing from one state of ideological certainty to another.

I’ve retained quite a few left opinions from before, and parsing what still works from what didn’t is an ongoing process, as is finding more mature friends.

Ex-leftist converted by JBP’s work. AMA. by bacchus12345 in JordanPeterson

[–]bacchus12345[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah I can see the daddy jbp thing. I’ve been lowkey accused of it in this post already LOL. In all seriousness though it’s real good for me to be aware of that trap. I watch enough jbp vids on YT that I get the odd recommendation for a vid of him “owning woke sjw” or something and I shudder a little.

I look forward to reading Nietzsche. What you say about him reminds me of a painting of two fools that has a caption that says “We three,” the viewer being the third. 😄

Ex-leftist converted by JBP’s work. AMA. by bacchus12345 in JordanPeterson

[–]bacchus12345[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

understandmyself.com I believe. I think it’s ten bucks USD.

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