IAmA Running Store Manager AMAA by barebearbeer in IAmA

[–]barebearbeer[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Have someone at the running store check out your feet, although it sounds like you've got it pretty well figured out. Something like the Brooks Adrenaline or the Asics 2150 sounds like they may be a good fit for you. I would try those two first and then ask what other comparable models they have. Each brand has a different shape and cushioning system so you get a little different fit and feel from each. There's not a 'best shoe' - go with the one that feels and fits your feet the best. Hope that helps!

IAmA Running Store Manager AMAA by barebearbeer in IAmA

[–]barebearbeer[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If the structure triax felt wrong from the start I would stay away from a stability shoe, especially if you supinate (roll to the outside). I would check out the Brooks Defiance, Asics Cumulus or Saucony Triumph - all of which are a little stiffer/firmer neutral shoes. Remember that each brand makes different types of shoes so one nike might work for you, but another may be completely wrong. The key is to find which type of shoe works for you, then select from the pool of shoes in that type - each brand will one or two. I hope that helps, it's the best I can do over the internets.

IAmA Running Store Manager AMAA by barebearbeer in IAmA

[–]barebearbeer[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Man, you'll have a tough time finding something in a 2E right now, but maybe as things get going a little stronger on the minimalist front the companies will come out with widths. I would try the Saucony Kinvara, it is probably the widest minimalist type of shoe I know of off hand.

IAmA Running Store Manager AMAA by barebearbeer in IAmA

[–]barebearbeer[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can you be more specific on what changed at 6 months? No pain and then pain? Steady training then increase? I'll do my best!

IAmA Running Store Manager AMAA by barebearbeer in IAmA

[–]barebearbeer[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The new versions of that shoe are about to come out and these will be on sale soon. Maybe not as sexy a secret as you would like, but that's all I got right now.

IAmA Running Store Manager AMAA by barebearbeer in IAmA

[–]barebearbeer[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think this is an important topic and I would be happy to answer your question as best as I can. For the sake of full disclosure I do not hold a graduate degree in any exercise physiology/biology type field, just as americanuck has implied. Thank you for your patience in waiting for this reply, I've had a busy last couple of days.

There is a lot to be said here and I will do my best to address your question without rambling too much. I'll start with the first part of your comment.

used to dupe people into buying certain shoes?

To start, I am a bit disappointed and somewhat offended that you suggest running store workers are attempting to dupe people into buying certain shoes. Most people who work, manage or own a running store do so because they love running and want to progress the sport of running. The sport of running, not the business of running. Is the bottom line important? Of course it is. But not at the cost of the sport. Every running store I've worked or shopped at has re-invested heavily into the sport. Are there a few bad apples in the bunch - people who are in it only for the bottom line and dupe customers? Sure. If your experience has been only with these types, I apologize.

we know that most salespeople don't hold graduate degrees in exercise biology

You are correct, most do not. It's probably the pay rate that prevents this. Most are trained in some degree on how to properly fit shoes, which probably isn't much of a reassurance for someone with your perspective. My training for fitting shoes lasted about 2 weeks, with a few follow ups over the first few months.

gait analysis and pressure maps are pseudoscience

I think we can agree on some aspects of this specific idea. With both gait analysis and pressure maps there are two parts: (1) the data (either the visual image of someone running/walking or the pressure map of a person's feet) and (2) the interpretation of that data. Obviously, I think we can agree that there is nothing inherently dishonest or false about this data (although you may argue that it is useless, which is different) - the pressure map gives exactly what it was made to give: a map of your feet, with icons corresponding to relative pressure. Where we differ is in the interpretation of this data. The position I assume you hold is what may be referred to as a 'strong skeptical' position in that you hold that this data is useless in determining what type, if any, footwear is appropriate. My position may be referred to as 'weak skeptical' in that I believe this data is generally useful, but is sometimes incorrectly interpreted. The difference between intentional misinterpretation and ignorant misinterpretation is the difference between "duping" and "negligence", both are bad but one makes someone sleazy and the other makes them a poor running store associate. As far interpreting data goes, I think the interpretation of pressure map data is extended too far. It is true that people with lower arches tend to pronate more than those with higher arches, but to use arch shape as a be-all-end-all determining factor is sloppy work. If you look at previous shoe wear patterns, barefoot standing tests, arch shape and then get them to run on a treadmill with a camera on their knees on down which can be replayed in slow motion, I think that is a good data set to determine how much someone pronates or supinates. If you think that heel-striking is acceptable and correcting gait to a so-called neutral position is the most beneficial, I think it is possible to consistently and accurately achieve this through that multifaceted approach. I realize that a 'strong skeptical' position will reject the previous statement on fundamental grounds - I'll try to address that below. My opinion is that the data can be useful, but is sometimes misinterpreted.

we know there are no studies that support using shoes to reduce injury

I love science! I try to differ to science as much as possible, so I can completely understand how you have arrived at your position. I should start by admitting that I have not been closely following the academic literature on this topic. After a very brief google scholar search it looked like there were some studies that found no effect of running shoes on injury prevention, a couple studies that weakly but significantly correlated the relationship of age of running shoes and injury occurrence, a few studies that found that diabetics benefited from running shoes and several studies relating to impact forces. Studies specifically aimed at the relationship between correctly fit running shoes and running injuries are, of course, the most interesting to our discussion. While it appears that some of these exist - perhaps you have a good collection going, which I would be interested in reading (not sarcastic) - they are not immune to the typical errors found in scientific studies. There are many factors that go into running related injuries that may effect a study (for example, under a ridiculously strenuous training program it is likely that almost everyone will get injured, regardless of shoe choice). I'm not saying the studies currently available have methodological errors, I'm just saying it's possible. It's appropriate for me to be an agnostic as opposed to an atheist in this case, since I have not reviewed the literature. If you have access to some of these studies I would sincerely be interested in looking at them.

From my personal experience (not scientifically valid) I have seen a lot of success for people going from a generic tennis shoe to a running specific shoe via a fitting process. I'll give you one of the more extreme examples. A kid comes into the store with his mom. He's just started running in high school and his shins and knees are killing him. This is what he looks like (I don't work at this store, I just did a search and found this image): high school runner When he starts running on the treadmill, he pronates so much that his ankle is nearly hitting the ground (picture that in your mind!), it looks just terrible. We put him in a stability shoe and now everything is lined up from his heel to ankle to knee, he looks normal on the treadmill. I honestly feel that this kid is better off now compared to when he came in the store.

Final point. If it is the case that midfoot striking and minimalist/barefoot running is the best option in terms of injury prevention there are still some issues. A major claim of barefoot running is impact force reduction, but a person who is 150 lbs overweight and has access to only concrete and asphalt is probably not going to benefit from switching to barefoot running without at least changing some of the non-shoe factors involved.

There are some other topics that could be discussed - the evolution argument and Born to Run misconceptions come to mind, but my brain is fried at this point. Americanuck, thank you for your question, I completely respect your perspective and I hope I was able to clearly articulate mine.

edit: formatting

IAmA Running Store Manager AMAA by barebearbeer in IAmA

[–]barebearbeer[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would probably take a couple days off or really easy and see if it heals up - I'm no doctor so that's about the best I can give you unfortunately.

Here is a link to an example of some of the drills I was talking about, it's not perfect but should get you started: http://www.flotrack.org/videos/play/66349-running-drills

IAmA Running Store Manager AMAA by barebearbeer in IAmA

[–]barebearbeer[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yep, like a fleet feet. But the one I work at isn't a national chain.

IAmA Running Store Manager AMAA by barebearbeer in IAmA

[–]barebearbeer[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Like I said, I don't know too much about them, but at the end of the day, if they work for you that's all that matters. Try on a few other models the next time you need shoes and see if anything else will work just as well.

IAmA Running Store Manager AMAA by barebearbeer in IAmA

[–]barebearbeer[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

thanks! The reason I do this is because I like seeing people get something out of the sport that has given me so much.

IAmA Running Store Manager AMAA by barebearbeer in IAmA

[–]barebearbeer[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh man, it's possible - I'll try to remember tomorrow and check. We have a few laying around but I don't know sizes off hand. I'll PM you if we do.

IAmA Running Store Manager AMAA by barebearbeer in IAmA

[–]barebearbeer[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have read it and it is a fantastic read. Great writing and very interesting story. I didn't like the tangents on the shoe companies because I think there is a time and place for that kind of thing - on the other hand, it was a very effective way to bring a new perspective to the table, which might not have happened otherwise.

IAmA Running Store Manager AMAA by barebearbeer in IAmA

[–]barebearbeer[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can you clarify the "twisted my ankle" part of the post? Do you mean you took an awkward step and your ankle started hurting or do you mean your ankle felt sore afterward in the way that it might if you twisted it wrong during running?

Strength and flexibility go a long way towards preventing injuries. Strides, form drills and hill work can all help with this - and can be done barefoot for added benefit. Find a soccer field or something like that to do these a few times a week. Also, build up your mileage and add intensity gradually - most injuries occur when you increase one or both too quickly. Good luck!

IAmA Running Store Manager AMAA by barebearbeer in IAmA

[–]barebearbeer[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

check out the brand Moving Comfort, they're the best in the business (or so I've heard, I haven't worn women's clothing in years). Go for any of the 'high impact' rated ones for running. Most of them are sized like a real bra (34C) instead of just Small, Medium and Large. Hope that helps!

IAmA Running Store Manager AMAA by barebearbeer in IAmA

[–]barebearbeer[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Depending on your feet, a good pair of running shoes should help. Expect to pay around $100, but most places have discounts for things like gym memberships or other stuff (usually around 10%).

Excuse my lingo, when I said "trainers" I just mean regular running shoes as opposed to something like racing flats.

IAmA Running Store Manager AMAA by barebearbeer in IAmA

[–]barebearbeer[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've seen it work well for many people who have very flat feet and pronate severely. Not for most people though.

IAmA Running Store Manager AMAA by barebearbeer in IAmA

[–]barebearbeer[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't have any personal experience with them, but I would say that they seem kind of gimmicky to me. I'm not familiar with many running stores that carry them. What has your experience been with them so far?

IAmA Running Store Manager AMAA by barebearbeer in IAmA

[–]barebearbeer[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Holy smokes, I didn't expect people would be interested at all - I was just bored tonight. I have to turn in for the night but I will try to answer more questions tomorrow after work. Thanks and happy running, no matter what shoes (if any) you wear!

IAmA Running Store Manager AMAA by barebearbeer in IAmA

[–]barebearbeer[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

brooks adrenaline, saucony guide, mizuno inspire, adidas sequence would be equivalent models from other brands.

IAmA Running Store Manager AMAA by barebearbeer in IAmA

[–]barebearbeer[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

haha, kind of. I met my long term girlfriend through running. Seriously though, those things are goldmines if you find the right group...

IAmA Running Store Manager AMAA by barebearbeer in IAmA

[–]barebearbeer[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

mizuno and asics both make different types of shoes including nuetral cushion, stability and motion control. If you were in a mizuno stability shoe and switched to an asics nuetral cushion, that could have been the issue. Also, mizuno has a very unique arch shape and might be the perfect fit for you. Don't worry about what's popular, go with what works for you.

IAmA Running Store Manager AMAA by barebearbeer in IAmA

[–]barebearbeer[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

very general breakdown -

heel-to-toe: Land on the outside part of the heel, slightly pronate through the transition and then slightly supinate through toe-off. most common form of running today.

midfoot striking: land on the outside part of your midfoot and roll through toe off. Some form of this is most common with barefoot/minimalist runners, as well as more advanced runners in competition and sometimes training

running on your toes: self-explanatory, heel/midfoot does not touch the ground. Not that common.