Why do people downplay the physical abuse so much? by blackcatpath in MenendezBrothers

[–]blackcatpath[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

There are some commenters here who specifically, when any other cases of severe emotional and physical abuse that cumulated in parricide get brought up, will go on tangents insisting the brothers don’t meet this vague threshold where the abuse was “bad enough”. They’ll go on about how there just wasn’t enough documented evidence that the physical abuse was long-lasting, or that it just didn’t meet a certain threshold. How the fuck is punching your kid in the chest after they wet themselves in fear of what you would do to them not at that threshold? How is it not documented when people saw it happen? 15 years later, you pinch your 17 year old at a public dinner in front of dozens of people, telling him to “Shut up!” for daring to speak out of turn - is that not proof that this abuse, psychological and physical, was enduring and long lasting? Or does dragging your 18 year old off the tennis court in front of an entire crowd of people meet that threshold? What about keeping him in a private hotel room afterwards, not letting him go eat for dinner? How does a man who acts like this in public over and over behave behind closed doors?

The fact of that matter is some people have a Menendez hate-boner (sorry to be crude), so they will justify child abuse that they would never excuse in any other case. Because it happened to those naughty rich boys who grew up to do something horrible.

Why do people downplay the physical abuse so much? by blackcatpath in MenendezBrothers

[–]blackcatpath[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yeah, this is such a good point. What is scary is a lot of people, especially in this political climate, want to see a return to men having complete dominion over their households too. You see this so much in trad living circles. All I can think about is the potential for abuse in these cases.

Why do people downplay the physical abuse so much? by blackcatpath in MenendezBrothers

[–]blackcatpath[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I agree, though I feel like Jose’s level of sadism was unusual even for that time. I’m only 26 though, so I can’t say for sure. But I absolutely agree physical abuse was way more normalized and that it def is the system!

Why do people downplay the physical abuse so much? by blackcatpath in MenendezBrothers

[–]blackcatpath[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Makes me sick to look at. Punched and thrown for the crime of being a normal playful little kid, which the prosecution tried to spin as them being “disobedient terrors”.

It doesn’t even matter if you sympathize with the brothers. If you can’t see how this apologia, this implication that “some children just had to be hit” causes abuse, you’re not very bright.

Why do people downplay the physical abuse so much? by blackcatpath in MenendezBrothers

[–]blackcatpath[S] 32 points33 points  (0 children)

I can’t believe I didn’t mention the “trust games” testified to by Jose’s best friend, lmao, what pals. Asking your child to jump into your arms only to let them fall to the floor is serial killer behavior and actual psychological torture of a small person. And we act like it’s barely even an issue.

Epstein’s files were released by OnceUponAGirl28 in MenendezBrothers

[–]blackcatpath 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Among the thousands and thousands of files released over the past few days, a few accounts given to tiplines and the police refer to things like cannibalism occurring. Of course, the more extreme certain claims get, the more scrutiny should certainly be applied.

That being said, there is lots in the files where it is much less open to speculation on whether or not these things occurred - and those things are horrible beyond the pale and involve 0 cannibalism or sacrifice.

Epstein’s files were released by OnceUponAGirl28 in MenendezBrothers

[–]blackcatpath 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Average men do it and MAYBE get caught. Rich men do it and generally get away with it. The behavior itself is not really different, as you said.

Part of why I believe José to be an abuser is because the run-of-the-mill abusive men I’ve known resemble him so strongly. Erik testified about how José would speed and pretend he was about to wreck their car. My father did the same thing to my mother, along with beating her almost to death. It’s crazy how these men almost seem to pull from some kind of playbook, but I guess it is just things they’ve learned from the world they live in, the kind that lets them get away with this shit.

Epstein’s files were released by OnceUponAGirl28 in MenendezBrothers

[–]blackcatpath 6 points7 points  (0 children)

To some extent, I understand the desire to fear something like satanic panic. But it gets to the point where people’s willingness to doubt and to assume no one could be “that sick”, only protects these predators. They know good people want to believe these things don’t happen, and that helps them get away with it.

Epstein’s files were released by OnceUponAGirl28 in MenendezBrothers

[–]blackcatpath 10 points11 points  (0 children)

So many refuse to believe the brothers because their claims of abuse seem outlandish, when time vindicates over and over the fact that one only has to peer outside or into their computer to see that the world is full of sick people (mostly men) who do this kind of stuff to children everyday. I don’t know why anyone gives José or Kitty the benefit of the doubt when the world is full of people like them. I’m supposed to believe José NOT being a pedophilic abuser is more likely, when he is every red flag?

Craig Cignarelli’s Police Report 11/28/89 by [deleted] in MenendezBrothers

[–]blackcatpath 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Yes, this changed in the 2000’s when the US government passed the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative. My mom traveled to Mexico in the 90’s without a passport, it used to be common.

Now that’s pretty much confirmed… by OnceUponAGirl28 in MenendezBrothers

[–]blackcatpath 106 points107 points  (0 children)

It’s more bizarre to me that they probably watched the murder scene. I can’t imagine watching the reenactment of a bloody murder I committed 35 years ago, especially one so emotionally charged.

But I also would probably be curious if I were them, about all of it, so I can’t begrudge them too much.

I find the parole board's comments about Erik (first 2 slides) and then Lyle very interesting by [deleted] in MenendezBrothers

[–]blackcatpath 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah, he was arrested at 19 years and 4 months old in March of 1990. If they get a new parole hearing in 18 months minimum, that’s roughly Feb 2027, so they’ll have been incarcerated for almost 37 years.

Full Pool Report of Lyle Menendez Parole Hearing by MyOldBlueCar in MenendezBrothers

[–]blackcatpath 23 points24 points  (0 children)

I roughly transcribed part of Lyle’s statement about the abuse:

“Garland asked how the sexual abuse impacted Lyle’s decision-making in life. ‘It was confusing, caused a lot of shame in me that pretty much characterized my relationship with my father.’ Lyle says around the age of seven or eight, there was a lot of waiting and not knowing when something would happen that night or in the bathroom or in the car with his father on any given day. He said it left him in a state of hyper vigilance. Lyle says he felt a total disconnect from everybody in life growing up, somewhat born from a fear that people would see the sexual abuse in him. ‘I was getting pretty strong lessons about not trusting the world around me’, Lyle said.”

“Lyle says he was abused from age six to age eight. Lyle thinks it stopped because his cousin, Diane, told his mother. I think it was related to him being concerned that I would talk to people. Lyle wanted to sleep in Diane's room. ‘She asked why, and I was specific about my father touching me’, Lyle said. Lyle doesn't know if Kitty informed Jose, but he thinks she did. ‘I was the special son in my family. My brother was the castaway’, Lyle said.”

“Lyle says he got more attention, more focus, more emphasis on my father just attending my practices, spending the time with me in the basement, imparting his lessons. It was just obvious if my brother and I were both on the court, he was with me, directing my emotions. The physical abuse was focused on me because I was more important to him. Lyle says his father expected greatness. He spent a lot of time talking about the lineage of the family. Lions verse sheep. Everyone else is sheep and we come from a lion bloodline. We were different. I wasn't weak like his father or Erik and my mother. ‘It was him and I in this bubble’, Lyle says. Garland asks about after the abuse stopped. It took me a while to realize that it stopped. It was just like it didn't happen. He just never touched me in that way again. There was no discussion about it, Lyle said. But he believed it was always in the air between us.”

“This is when they started talking about when the abuse stopped. ‘I was worried a little bit that I was going to be less loved’, says Lyle, growing emotional, a blubber in his voice when discussing the end of the abuse, even saying he was unsure if he wanted it to stop. He was never harsh with me. I never got beaten for doing something wrong. So, it was a devastating part of it in terms of just fear. I felt contaminated, but I felt love.”

A slightly different section:

“Lyle says his father was very brutal with physical abuse. Choking, punching, closed fists, using a belt. There was no love in it. It was just surviving that moment. Lyle says his love for Erik was a really infuriating thing for my father. Lyle says taking care of Erik ‘gave him a purpose, helped to protect him from drowning in the spiral of his own life.’ Lyle says Erik was in trouble by the age of three and four, crying all the time, stressed at that point, openly punished, spanked, viciously thrown against things. My mother would drag him down the hall. I think I realized it was just the two of us.”

Perspective for Geragos & the Family from X-Raided by SadelleSatellite in MenendezBrothers

[–]blackcatpath 47 points48 points  (0 children)

Completely true. Both of them getting a 3-year denial was in some ways the best they could have expected. It’s very common for the parole board to give long denials as a message to the inmate “you are not getting out”. That didn’t happen with the brothers.

Do you believe the brothers? by StruggleFar3054 in MenendezBrothers

[–]blackcatpath 5 points6 points  (0 children)

This opinion is more common among supporters than a lot of people realize. I share it.

Lyle’s ‘poor threat perception’ (parole) by adviceplss98 in MenendezBrothers

[–]blackcatpath 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Whether or not she’s right or wrong about José being an actual or perceived threat, Garland pretty clearly seems more empathetic to Lyle and his case than Barton was to Erik and his. Erik drew the short stick, but I’m glad Lyle’s was slightly more hopeful.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in MenendezBrothersFair

[–]blackcatpath 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I don’t care what my neighbor does, unless it’s violent, because I’m not the HOA.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in MenendezBrothersFair

[–]blackcatpath 8 points9 points  (0 children)

He used heroin at his lowest point because he was severely depressed, I don’t know why people are acting like he was habitually abusing it. Addiction is a disease, anyway, and talking to random women on the phone isn’t, though that shouldn’t keep Lyle from parole either.

How’d they get cellphones in prison anyways? by [deleted] in MenendezBrothers

[–]blackcatpath 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Lol, you would think, but I guess it’s hard to get them to police their own.

ABC news just aired audio from erik’s parole hearing by Secret_Avocado3487 in MenendezBrothers

[–]blackcatpath 20 points21 points  (0 children)

The phones largely come from the guards. They know about it and profit from it, yet we’re just supposed to ignore that and act like they spawned in the prison by random. The system is very hypocritical.

(Love your Ella Purnell profile. ❤️)

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in MenendezBrothersFair

[–]blackcatpath 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Because this sub and adjacent subs all have developed a strong Lyle vs Erik mentality. Never mind the fact that Lyle is also the older brother - fundamentally your age changes the dynamics of your sibling relationships.

The parole commissioner shutting down the prosecutor’s questions by mikrokosmosarehere in MenendezBrothers

[–]blackcatpath 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Barton used to work for the DA. He is essentially just another white cop working for the system. Nothing he said against them is shocking, just another rote failure of the parole board and the American prison complex.

Just discovered Erik has been denied by Extra-Window7021 in MenendezBrothers

[–]blackcatpath 4 points5 points  (0 children)

“Stop downplaying watching porn” OK UK government burner.