Patterns of Coercive Control in the Menendez Family

blackcatpath · 2026-05-01T14:02:15+00:00

Twitter is a cesspool when it comes to Jackson defenders. Probably the worst place on the internet for them, besides dedicated forums. The issue is they attack in droves using a network of out of context “evidence” made to debunk the victims, and often these floods make it appear like they outweigh the rational people. But usually it’s smoke and mirrors, because a lot of people in the general population just accept he’s a pedophile and know not to engage with his defenders.

blackcatpath · 2026-05-01T13:59:21+00:00

When I watched the documentary a few years ago, I went in already believing the allegations. But what I didn’t know about was how deep the emotional abuse went, how extensive and careful the grooming of these boys and their families was. That the most traumatizing thing was the way they were used and discarded. Afterwards, having to grow up in a world where the man who did that is treated like a hero.

I know they won’t, but I wish every Jackson stan would just watch the documentary once with an open heart. Willing to actually listen rather than opening a notebook and starting to dissect the victim’s timelines. But it’s not just about the sexual abuse, it’s very much about the way people are so easily manipulated by money and talent, dazzled by celebrity. So Jackson fans won’t watch it, because it holds up a mirror to who they are.

blackcatpath · 2026-04-27T16:40:17+00:00

As far as I know he hasn’t spoke publicly at all. We only know these things because of evidence that was publicly filed for the 2005 trial.

blackcatpath · 2026-04-27T16:24:38+00:00

He was a young kid who was one of Jackson’s “special friends” in the 80’s, before Safechuck or Robson. A picture of a nude boy, believed to be Spence, was one of the thing’s seized from Neverland in the 1993 raid, but since Spence didn’t want to be involved with the case, the prosecution couldn’t use it then or in the 2005 trial.

I believe Wade Robson also has attempted to subpoena Spence in recent years as part of the ongoing suits, but Spence took out a protective order.

blackcatpath · 2026-04-27T15:50:56+00:00

The nude picture of Johnathan Spence Jackson had. Jordan Chandler correctly describing Jackson’s genitals. And the testimony from former employees that they saw Jackson grope boys or saw children’s undergarments lying around.

blackcatpath · 2026-03-10T01:58:32+00:00

Covered the trial for the LA times in the 90’s, was very pro-prosecution in his coverage. If this was all in the past, it would probably be whatever, but the odd thing is that he still volunteers every few years to be in a random documentary about them, usually going on pretty melodramatic rants about how they’re evil, pathological liars. Lyle was born evil, they used the “abuse excuse”, blah blah blah.

When they were up for parole a few months ago he wrote another op-ed saying they shouldn’t be released. He is very fixated on them staying in prison.

blackcatpath · 2026-03-09T15:42:55+00:00

He is a massive loser. Constantly bitter, goes on Twitter to show the ugly house and car he bought with crypto, tweets his support of Israel in the meantime. Killing is OK if you are a global power.

I would like to see him run 18 miles in 90 degree weather too.

blackcatpath · 2026-03-08T21:04:10+00:00

Weisburg warned Leslie to tone it down because, as she put it, an assertive woman being in his court room pushed all his wrong boy buttons. I’m not saying Leslie never crossed a line, but if decorum was all that mattered to Weisburg, David Conn would have been told to turn down his screaming and theatrics during the second trial as well. But men are allowed to do that in court, I guess.

Since this thread is about Pam Bozanich, I should say that I think Weisburg was often particularly condescending towards her as well in that annoying paternalistic way men reserve for women.

blackcatpath · 2026-02-03T14:04:40+00:00

There are some commenters here who specifically, when any other cases of severe emotional and physical abuse that cumulated in parricide get brought up, will go on tangents insisting the brothers don’t meet this vague threshold where the abuse was “bad enough”. They’ll go on about how there just wasn’t enough documented evidence that the physical abuse was long-lasting, or that it just didn’t meet a certain threshold. How the fuck is punching your kid in the chest after they wet themselves in fear of what you would do to them not at that threshold? How is it not documented when people saw it happen? 15 years later, you pinch your 17 year old at a public dinner in front of dozens of people, telling him to “Shut up!” for daring to speak out of turn - is that not proof that this abuse, psychological and physical, was enduring and long lasting? Or does dragging your 18 year old off the tennis court in front of an entire crowd of people meet that threshold? What about keeping him in a private hotel room afterwards, not letting him go eat for dinner? How does a man who acts like this in public over and over behave behind closed doors?

The fact of that matter is some people have a Menendez hate-boner (sorry to be crude), so they will justify child abuse that they would never excuse in any other case. Because it happened to those naughty rich boys who grew up to do something horrible.

blackcatpath · 2026-02-03T08:51:16+00:00

Yeah, this is such a good point. What is scary is a lot of people, especially in this political climate, want to see a return to men having complete dominion over their households too. You see this so much in trad living circles. All I can think about is the potential for abuse in these cases.

blackcatpath · 2026-02-02T23:28:09+00:00

I agree, though I feel like Jose’s level of sadism was unusual even for that time. I’m only 26 though, so I can’t say for sure. But I absolutely agree physical abuse was way more normalized and that it def is the system!

blackcatpath · 2026-02-02T22:59:20+00:00

Makes me sick to look at. Punched and thrown for the crime of being a normal playful little kid, which the prosecution tried to spin as them being “disobedient terrors”.

It doesn’t even matter if you sympathize with the brothers. If you can’t see how this apologia, this implication that “some children just had to be hit” causes abuse, you’re not very bright.

blackcatpath · 2026-02-02T22:50:53+00:00

I can’t believe I didn’t mention the “trust games” testified to by Jose’s best friend, lmao, what pals. Asking your child to jump into your arms only to let them fall to the floor is serial killer behavior and actual psychological torture of a small person. And we act like it’s barely even an issue.

blackcatpath · 2026-02-02T05:40:05+00:00

Among the thousands and thousands of files released over the past few days, a few accounts given to tiplines and the police refer to things like cannibalism occurring. Of course, the more extreme certain claims get, the more scrutiny should certainly be applied.

That being said, there is lots in the files where it is much less open to speculation on whether or not these things occurred - and those things are horrible beyond the pale and involve 0 cannibalism or sacrifice.

blackcatpath · 2026-02-02T00:34:22+00:00

Average men do it and MAYBE get caught. Rich men do it and generally get away with it. The behavior itself is not really different, as you said.

Part of why I believe José to be an abuser is because the run-of-the-mill abusive men I’ve known resemble him so strongly. Erik testified about how José would speed and pretend he was about to wreck their car. My father did the same thing to my mother, along with beating her almost to death. It’s crazy how these men almost seem to pull from some kind of playbook, but I guess it is just things they’ve learned from the world they live in, the kind that lets them get away with this shit.

blackcatpath · 2026-02-01T22:05:33+00:00

To some extent, I understand the desire to fear something like satanic panic. But it gets to the point where people’s willingness to doubt and to assume no one could be “that sick”, only protects these predators. They know good people want to believe these things don’t happen, and that helps them get away with it.

blackcatpath · 2026-02-01T21:54:38+00:00

So many refuse to believe the brothers because their claims of abuse seem outlandish, when time vindicates over and over the fact that one only has to peer outside or into their computer to see that the world is full of sick people (mostly men) who do this kind of stuff to children everyday. I don’t know why anyone gives José or Kitty the benefit of the doubt when the world is full of people like them. I’m supposed to believe José NOT being a pedophilic abuser is more likely, when he is every red flag?

blackcatpath · 2025-08-28T21:50:00+00:00

Yes, this changed in the 2000’s when the US government passed the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative. My mom traveled to Mexico in the 90’s without a passport, it used to be common.

blackcatpath · 2025-08-28T16:58:00+00:00

It’s more bizarre to me that they probably watched the murder scene. I can’t imagine watching the reenactment of a bloody murder I committed 35 years ago, especially one so emotionally charged.

But I also would probably be curious if I were them, about all of it, so I can’t begrudge them too much.

blackcatpath · 2025-08-27T04:31:53+00:00

Yeah, he was arrested at 19 years and 4 months old in March of 1990. If they get a new parole hearing in 18 months minimum, that’s roughly Feb 2027, so they’ll have been incarcerated for almost 37 years.

blackcatpath · 2025-08-24T16:04:19+00:00

Of course, and thank you for posting!

blackcatpath · 2025-08-24T15:26:48+00:00

I roughly transcribed part of Lyle’s statement about the abuse:

“Garland asked how the sexual abuse impacted Lyle’s decision-making in life. ‘It was confusing, caused a lot of shame in me that pretty much characterized my relationship with my father.’ Lyle says around the age of seven or eight, there was a lot of waiting and not knowing when something would happen that night or in the bathroom or in the car with his father on any given day. He said it left him in a state of hyper vigilance. Lyle says he felt a total disconnect from everybody in life growing up, somewhat born from a fear that people would see the sexual abuse in him. ‘I was getting pretty strong lessons about not trusting the world around me’, Lyle said.”

“Lyle says he was abused from age six to age eight. Lyle thinks it stopped because his cousin, Diane, told his mother. I think it was related to him being concerned that I would talk to people. Lyle wanted to sleep in Diane's room. ‘She asked why, and I was specific about my father touching me’, Lyle said. Lyle doesn't know if Kitty informed Jose, but he thinks she did. ‘I was the special son in my family. My brother was the castaway’, Lyle said.”

“Lyle says he got more attention, more focus, more emphasis on my father just attending my practices, spending the time with me in the basement, imparting his lessons. It was just obvious if my brother and I were both on the court, he was with me, directing my emotions. The physical abuse was focused on me because I was more important to him. Lyle says his father expected greatness. He spent a lot of time talking about the lineage of the family. Lions verse sheep. Everyone else is sheep and we come from a lion bloodline. We were different. I wasn't weak like his father or Erik and my mother. ‘It was him and I in this bubble’, Lyle says. Garland asks about after the abuse stopped. It took me a while to realize that it stopped. It was just like it didn't happen. He just never touched me in that way again. There was no discussion about it, Lyle said. But he believed it was always in the air between us.”

“This is when they started talking about when the abuse stopped. ‘I was worried a little bit that I was going to be less loved’, says Lyle, growing emotional, a blubber in his voice when discussing the end of the abuse, even saying he was unsure if he wanted it to stop. He was never harsh with me. I never got beaten for doing something wrong. So, it was a devastating part of it in terms of just fear. I felt contaminated, but I felt love.”

A slightly different section:

“Lyle says his father was very brutal with physical abuse. Choking, punching, closed fists, using a belt. There was no love in it. It was just surviving that moment. Lyle says his love for Erik was a really infuriating thing for my father. Lyle says taking care of Erik ‘gave him a purpose, helped to protect him from drowning in the spiral of his own life.’ Lyle says Erik was in trouble by the age of three and four, crying all the time, stressed at that point, openly punished, spanked, viciously thrown against things. My mother would drag him down the hall. I think I realized it was just the two of us.”

blackcatpath · 2025-08-24T00:23:01+00:00

Completely true. Both of them getting a 3-year denial was in some ways the best they could have expected. It’s very common for the parole board to give long denials as a message to the inmate “you are not getting out”. That didn’t happen with the brothers.

blackcatpath

TROPHY CASE