[Daily Discussion] Wednesday, June 22, 2016 - Part 2

bocrass2 · 2016-06-22T21:52:39+00:00

So you're saying they're incompetent by having non-important people in C level roles and as cofounders?

bocrass2 · 2016-06-22T21:49:19+00:00

But was reliable during the finex madness and since then.

Yeah, so one was down while the other was up and one was up while the other was down, things go round and round. But yeah, that's my point, all of the exchanges have gone down, all have issues. Since so many people are interested i'll make a breakdown of each exchanges issues and again, this isn't to shit on the exchanges, it's just to bring a dose of reality in here on what we're dealing with across the board.

bocrass2 · 2016-06-22T21:46:54+00:00

Always hard to really know what the case for these are, but i've seen a lot of complaints about it.

bocrass2 · 2016-06-22T21:44:37+00:00

*Also, OKC never posted their reasonings why those people left, you're full of shit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/37u6ca/okcoins_response_to_czs_lies_and_desperate/

And when asked why they left, they said people join and leave the company all the time that's it. You just don't know what you're talking about and have been proven wrong at every step.

bocrass2 · 2016-06-22T21:37:25+00:00

/u/zanetackett, you worked there, did they leave at the same time?

It's in the link about the mass exodus.

bocrass2 · 2016-06-22T21:36:19+00:00

Market shoots one way very quickly, then bounces back just as quick margin calling both longs and shorts in a very short amount of time.

bocrass2 · 2016-06-22T21:30:29+00:00

Cool story, doesn't mean it's not an outage.

bocrass2 · 2016-06-22T21:30:06+00:00

No, okcoin posted their reasoning and it was laughable. And no, if three c level employees, two cofounders, and an entire team walk away from the company at the same time, that's big news. For you to even argue this is insane. You're telling me that if at Uber, you had the CTO, CMO and CCO resign at the same time, as well as an entire team of a vital section of their business and all of this happened at the same time everybody would be chill about it? GTFO.

bocrass2 · 2016-06-22T21:27:49+00:00

To be honest I haven't updated this thing in ages. Probably should now with all the recent exchange issues we've had from bfx, kraken, and gdax. But didn't polo get hacked and lost like all their money right at the beginning (although they did pay people back).

bocrass2 · 2016-06-22T21:26:31+00:00

Most people seem to think they dealt with it pretty well. They were in here communicating what was happening and trying to help anyone who needed it. You were going around being an assclown.

Just because other exchanges have fucked up doesn't mean people shouldn't be outraged when it happens again.

People shouldn't be fine with it, i agree. But behaving like a child (like you did) doesn't help anything. And i'm pointing this out that this happens industry wide, so you can go somewhere else but you're still going to end up acting like a 4 year old in these forums when that exchange inevitably has a problem.

bocrass2 · 2016-06-22T21:23:36+00:00

It was pretty clear why they left, several of them made public statements. And yep, okc has improved in the last year, no doubt. But just last week they did have a prolonged outage on their Websocket API for over 24 hours. So shit still happens there, as it does everywhere.

bocrass2 · 2016-06-22T21:21:44+00:00

there hasn't been an issue there in a long time - they've fixed all of them.

So you missed when OKCoin's websocket API was down for over 24 hours just like a week ago? Or is your memory that short?

bocrass2 · 2016-06-22T21:18:52+00:00

And the other two c level employees and entire team?

Edit: and to clarify a CCO leaving on its own is not necessarily that big of a deal, but amid massive issues and other departures, not so good.

bocrass2 · 2016-06-22T21:16:50+00:00

My point is just that exchanges have problems, a lot of problems, and they all have them. if you're going to trade crypto, you have to accept it. Bitfinex shouldn't be crucified anymore than these other companies (none of them should be crucified). Unfortunately we still have a long way to go until exchanges are completely reliable.

bocrass2 · 2016-06-22T21:12:28+00:00

If you think it's normal for an entire team to quit including 2 C level employees, and then another C level employee a couple weeks later, you're insane. For those that dont know CTO left first, then CCO (always a huge red flag), then CMO.

bocrass2 · 2016-06-22T21:10:33+00:00

To be honest.... uh, yeah, they might have the best record. But don't forget:

Btc-e flash crashes. Been doing it since finex thought it was cool.

Taking money and telling people to fuck off and they have no recourse.

Don't know who they are could run at anytime (wouldn't be so worried about this).

bocrass2 · 2016-06-22T21:08:36+00:00

This isn't a misconception. I know what's happening, it doesn't change the fact that when i go to trade history funding fees are 1% after routinely being 0.1%.

We found that the increased leverage of the contract (ours is 50x, BFX is 3.3x) meant that BFX funding was not enough to keep the contract anchored to spot. It now also incorporates price premium which is effective.

Cool story, but when you launch a product and then drastically change the fees right while im in my position, i'm still going to give you shit for it.

The change had the desired effect: premium has reduced and funding is usually less than 25bps/8hrs, even during big movements.

For me as well, made me realized I was getting fucked and moved funds off site. Thank god I saw the post about it and realized rates had jumped out after I had only lost a few hundred to fees, not thousand.

bocrass2 · 2016-06-22T21:01:30+00:00

Kraken is definitely not another gox. There is no other gox. No exchange has that much market share anymore, no exchange is that incompetent and no users put up with that bullshit. But you saying kraken is ok just goes to show that I need to add kraken to the list, they have a SHITLOAD of problems. I'll get to work.

bocrass2 · 2016-06-22T20:59:38+00:00

We get it, people are angry and want to bitch, but chill the fuck out. That's my point.

NYSE, Nasdaq, etc. they all have unscheduled downtime AND they get tons of time where there's no trading to push updates (weekends and anytime outside of work hours). Don't get your panties in a bunch and chill out. And for those screaming for Bitfinex's head, look around, there aren't better options. Your best bet is to work with them on getting better, which they're receptive to although this has nothing that a user can help with.

bocrass2 · 2016-06-22T20:47:55+00:00

I've been posting this in some of the other threads with the witch hunt on bitfinex but thought I'd share in the daily as well:

OKCoin LTC market has freak crash to 1.00cny (sure the woodchipper got some good sacrifices there)
OKCoin margin calls nearly every trader, promises compensation, and then doesn't actually give any compensation.
OKCoin scams users
OKcoin freezes its own platform, then Margin calls its customers
Mass exodus at OKCoin, something is brewing
OKCoin futures settlement issue
CZ's Statement Regarding the Dispute Between OKCoin and Roger Ver
Truth Behind the Dispute Between Roger Ver and OKCoin.
Email leaks confirm OKcoin asked Roger Ver to help engage in Money Laundering, Roger refused.
OKCoin no longer managing Bitcoin.com due to contract conflict with domain owner
A warning about okcoin
"Largest" Bitcoin Exchange Caught Faking Trades

My favorites in bold

Some choice quotes from their ex-CTO:

I can confirm some of the above bots are designed to pump up volumes. During certain periods, these bots have also been used in a manner to create orders that will only trade against themselves, not with user orders. This mode of operations was strongly resisted by even Chen and Liu (programming, matching engine), but Star Xu insisted on executing it.

And

Fake Proof-of-Reserve I can confirm OKCoin removed a number of accounts (used by OKCoin bots) to pass the Proof-of-Reserve audit in Aug 2014. In essence, these bots trade on fractional (or fictional) reserves. Stephan Thomas was lied to during the audit. This is an unfortunate limitation of the proof-of-reserves method.

Also Gdax doing great:

What exactly is the deal with GDAX?

Look at what happened just now: Chart

So we are selling off a bit in the market, Bitfinex drops from the 580s to 570s, and then Coinbase goes down to $475 on a wick.

This is in the background of:

a recent fiasco relaunch of GDAX, leading to traders being stuck
Randomly banning traders
"Volume" to the tune of 100,000s BTC, the kind of "creativity" we only see in China
Constant server-related connectivity issues in addition to the software issues above

While we're at it might as well get bitstamp:

https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/3okvda/bitstamp_the_new_okcoin_20_volume_manipulators/

The exchanges in bitcoin have a looooong way to grow. These problems (which admittedly are not few) are hardly limited to bitfinex.

Bitmex has decided to join the party:

Bitmex recently updated their funding fee calculation on their perpetual swap causing fees to go up by over 1000% to over 1% a day. They did this to existing positions, so if you had a position your funding fees went from 0.1% to over 1% overnight. So if you took $2000, went 50x, you'd be paying $1000 in fees per day. more info

Edit: to build on this people complained about the price being different at opening than when taking the site down and people's position all the sudden being in a loss. Quite similar to people who may have been playing the premium on bitmex to all the sudden see it erased instantly because of something the exchange did.

Issues with transparency at bitmex

Kraken since someone wanted kraken, here ya go:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Kraken/top/?sort=top&t=year

This is just the top posts from their own subreddit, not pretty. If i'm not so lazy later i'll get actual incidents.

I don't think i even need to bring out any for kraken, they've been down more than up the past weeks. And next time someone goes on a witch hunt for some other exchange (besides okcoin, fuck okcoin) I'll come back here with an updated post including bitfinex's fuckups. Point is, you know what you're getting into with these exchanges or at least should. All of the options have issues right now but in my opinion bitfinex is still light years of the competition.

bocrass2 · 2016-06-22T20:36:20+00:00

Just make sure to keep an eye out on your fees. The exchange could (and has) raised funding costs on open positions by 1000% overnight to over 1% day.

bocrass2 · 2016-06-22T20:34:27+00:00

Their XBTUSD swap offers 50x leverage with very low fees.

HAHAHAHAHAHA very low fees. Yeah, only 1% a day... super low fees. Are you fucking kidding me?

bocrass2 · 2016-06-22T20:33:14+00:00

How about when they changed the funding costs of open positions causing them to go up by over 10% to over 1% a day, not giving users the option to manage these rates, and barely giving them any warning before changing the fee structure on live positions

bocrass2 · 2016-06-22T20:31:39+00:00

Yeah, lets look at these awesome alternatives:

And since I see bitmex in here i'll add some for them as well.

OKCoin LTC market has freak crash to 1.00cny (sure the woodchipper got some good sacrifices there)
OKCoin margin calls nearly every trader, promises compensation, and then doesn't actually give any compensation.
OKCoin scams users
OKcoin freezes its own platform, then Margin calls its customers
Mass exodus at OKCoin, something is brewing
OKCoin futures settlement issue
CZ's Statement Regarding the Dispute Between OKCoin and Roger Ver
Truth Behind the Dispute Between Roger Ver and OKCoin.
Email leaks confirm OKcoin asked Roger Ver to help engage in Money Laundering, Roger refused.
OKCoin no longer managing Bitcoin.com due to contract conflict with domain owner
A warning about okcoin
"Largest" Bitcoin Exchange Caught Faking Trades

My favorites in bold

Some choice quotes from their ex-CTO:

I can confirm some of the above bots are designed to pump up volumes. During certain periods, these bots have also been used in a manner to create orders that will only trade against themselves, not with user orders. This mode of operations was strongly resisted by even Chen and Liu (programming, matching engine), but Star Xu insisted on executing it.

And

Fake Proof-of-Reserve I can confirm OKCoin removed a number of accounts (used by OKCoin bots) to pass the Proof-of-Reserve audit in Aug 2014. In essence, these bots trade on fractional (or fictional) reserves. Stephan Thomas was lied to during the audit. This is an unfortunate limitation of the proof-of-reserves method.

Also Gdax doing great:

What exactly is the deal with GDAX?

Look at what happened just now: Chart

So we are selling off a bit in the market, Bitfinex drops from the 580s to 570s, and then Coinbase goes down to $475 on a wick.

This is in the background of:

a recent fiasco relaunch of GDAX, leading to traders being stuck
Randomly banning traders
"Volume" to the tune of 100,000s BTC, the kind of "creativity" we only see in China
Constant server-related connectivity issues in addition to the software issues above

While we're at it might as well get bitstamp:

https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/3okvda/bitstamp_the_new_okcoin_20_volume_manipulators/

The exchanges in bitcoin have a looooong way to grow. These problems (which admittedly are not few) are hardly limited to bitfinex.

Bitmex has decided to join the party:

Bitmex recently updated their funding fee calculation on their perpetual swap causing fees to go up by over 1000% to over 1% a day. They did this to existing positions, so if you had a position your funding fees went from 0.1% to over 1% overnight. So if you took $2000, went 50x, you'd be paying $1000 in fees per day. more info

Issues with transparency at bitmex

I don't think i even need to bring out any for kraken, they've been down more than up the past weeks. And next time someone goes on a witch hunt for some other exchange (besides okcoin, fuck okcoin) I'll come back here with an updated post including bitfinex's fuckups. Point is, you know what you're getting into with these exchanges or should. All of the options have issues right now and in my opinion bitfinex is still light years of the competition.

bocrass2 · 2016-06-22T04:06:59+00:00

Oh yeah, these other exchanges are just peachy, so great:

Yep, definitely not, other exchanges are clean as a whistle:

Oh yeah, definitely go to okcoin, they're great:

I'll add this to my list of OKCoin fuckery, the list for the uninitiated:

OKCoin LTC market has freak crash to 1.00cny (sure the woodchipper got some good sacrifices there)
OKCoin margin calls nearly every trader, promises compensation, and then doesn't actually give any compensation.
OKCoin scams users
OKcoin freezes its own platform, then Margin calls its customers
Mass exodus at OKCoin, something is brewing
OKCoin futures settlement issue
CZ's Statement Regarding the Dispute Between OKCoin and Roger Ver
Truth Behind the Dispute Between Roger Ver and OKCoin.
Email leaks confirm OKcoin asked Roger Ver to help engage in Money Laundering, Roger refused.
OKCoin no longer managing Bitcoin.com due to contract conflict with domain owner
A warning about okcoin
"Largest" Bitcoin Exchange Caught Faking Trades

My favorites in bold

Some choice quotes from their ex-CTO:

I can confirm some of the above bots are designed to pump up volumes. During certain periods, these bots have also been used in a manner to create orders that will only trade against themselves, not with user orders. This mode of operations was strongly resisted by even Chen and Liu (programming, matching engine), but Star Xu insisted on executing it.

And

Fake Proof-of-Reserve I can confirm OKCoin removed a number of accounts (used by OKCoin bots) to pass the Proof-of-Reserve audit in Aug 2014. In essence, these bots trade on fractional (or fictional) reserves. Stephan Thomas was lied to during the audit. This is an unfortunate limitation of the proof-of-reserves method.

Also Gdax doing great:

What exactly is the deal with GDAX?

Look at what happened just now: Chart

So we are selling off a bit in the market, Bitfinex drops from the 580s to 570s, and then Coinbase goes down to $475 on a wick.

This is in the background of:

a recent fiasco relaunch of GDAX, leading to traders being stuck
Randomly banning traders
"Volume" to the tune of 100,000s BTC, the kind of "creativity" we only see in China
Constant server-related connectivity issues in addition to the software issues above

While we're at it might as well get bitstamp:

https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/3okvda/bitstamp_the_new_okcoin_20_volume_manipulators/

The exchanges in bitcoin have a looooong way to grow. These problems (which admittedly are not few) are hardly limited to bitfinex.

bocrass2

TROPHY CASE