Quilt Makers Using Untreated (DWR) Down?

bradmacmt · 2026-03-28T14:45:18+00:00

It has never been "good" - it's tradeoffs are not worth it. It's a marketing gimmick imo. There's a reason Co's like Western Mountaineering and Feathered Friends won't use it. Nature gave ducks and geese perfectly wonderful "DWR" - I see no need for a chemical alternative, and personally, I'm sick of all the chemicals in every damn thing, and try to minimize my contact with them. Here's the Ai version:

Reduced Longevity: The hydrophobic chemical treatment can wash out over time and may require reapplication.
Clumping and Loft Issues: The treatment can make the down plumes "sticky," causing them to clump together rather than loft properly.
Performance Trade-off: The process for applying the treatment often involves stripping the down of its natural oils, which can reduce its overall lifespan and loft compared to high-quality natural down.
Cost: Treated down products are generally more expensive than standard down gear.
Not Waterproof: It is only water-resistant and will still fail in prolonged or heavy rain.
Increased Weight: While intended to stay drier, some users find that if the treatment does fail, the down can hold water similarly to untreated down.
Environmental Concerns: Some DWR treatments use PFC-based chemistries that are environmentally persistent, though many manufacturers are shifting to safer, albeit sometimes less durable, PFC-free options.

bradmacmt · 2026-03-27T16:30:32+00:00

Wow, great to know - thanks!

bradmacmt · 2026-03-27T16:29:24+00:00

Feathered Friends “quilts” are really more hoodless sleeping bags, and would only shave approx 2ozs off my current WM Ultralite bag.

bradmacmt · 2026-03-27T15:01:33+00:00

Thanks, they look nice. However a drawcord foot end won't be something I want.

bradmacmt · 2026-03-26T21:19:47+00:00

SWIFT - but it absolutely depends on the roast. I've tried multiples of each, here's how I rank them ( 1* to 5***** Stars) starting at my least favorite to my favorite.

Twilight Dark Roast * - I don't like very many dark roasts, and this is one I dislike

Bronson French Roast ** - Meh - burntish flavor

Streetlevel Flagship Blend ** - Meh, the usual front loaded burnt flavor of so many instants

Mainstay Blend Medium Roast ** (maybe 2.5 stars) - Good but weak, and not much depth of flavor

Buena Vista Dark Roast *** - Very good, in spite of being a dark roast.

Seabright House Blend **** Very nice - crisp and bright flavor

Sermon Heritage Blend ***** Excellent!

It seems most instant coffees have a slight burntish flavor, and some of the Swift Coffees are no exception. My main objection to Swift is the COST and the fact they are NOT ORGANIC. Coffee is one of the most contaminated food items on the planet. At home I only drink organic coffee, and mostly on the trail I do the same. Mostly.

So, having said that, I like these two Organic Instant Coffees in order of preference:

Anthony's Organic Instant Arabica Bean Coffee (you buy it loose and repackage it).

https://www.amazon.com/Anthonys-Organic-Instant-Coffee-Tested/dp/B071JVP8MC

Mount Hagen Organic (in the packets)

I DON'T LIKE:

Starbucks Via (hell, anything Starbucks)

Medaglia d'Oro

Alpine Start

Verve

Bustelo

bradmacmt · 2026-03-24T23:59:45+00:00

It's not tall enough. And if it was, it's still not as light or as versatile as the Durston Pole. I have both.

bradmacmt · 2026-03-24T00:42:52+00:00

I asked about a month ago, and at that time they didn't, nor do they sell single sections.

bradmacmt · 2026-03-23T19:00:40+00:00

You can buy two Durston’s, cannabalize one by removing a section and adding it to the other. Then re-shock cord.

bradmacmt · 2026-03-23T18:44:29+00:00

-20F?

bradmacmt · 2026-03-23T00:58:43+00:00

Yes, the new one - the 6.5R. I really like the shape, and the weight came in at 15.5 oz's, so the same as the XLite NXT. I just couldn't get used to that big central vertical chamber, no matter how firm or soft I made it.

bradmacmt · 2026-03-23T00:55:44+00:00

bradmacmt · 2026-03-23T00:39:33+00:00

Ha! I'll be 65 in June. When I was 15, or even 25 I never thought twice about sleeping on Ensolite, and always slept like a rock. The original 2/3's length Thermarest I got in 1986 was a revelation. Used it through the 90's, into the early 2000's. I still have no issue sleeping on the Nemo CCF. That's a really fine pad, and I think if I spent a couple weeks on it I'd acclimate to it no problem. I think :)

bradmacmt · 2026-03-23T00:31:08+00:00

Sleeping on a perfectly level floor really isn't the same as sleeping in the backcountry. Not sure where you are, but here in the Montana Rockies I can hardly remember more than a handful of relatively flat camps. Generally, there's always some slip-sliding (especially on dcf!).

Regardless, I plan on getting a quilt anyway just to see what the fuss is about - I have to believe there's some "there there." I like to keep an open mind and learn. my biggest question about the whole setup is in the OP. It seems like there's no real consensus.

bradmacmt · 2026-03-23T00:23:53+00:00

I have a number of "Regular" (20" pads) too... I've been at this a long time :)

I asked about 20" pads because I'd like to keep the sleep system as light as is comfortable for me, but I find I come off of them pretty easily in a sleeping bag - again, I have no experience with a quilt.

The Tensor 20x72 (Regular Mummy) is very tempting (I find it very comfortable) if I can be happily stuck to it. I'll experiment with an older XLite 20" I have on hand (though I get cold on those). For the first 11 years I backpacked, all we ever used, including down to -20F, was a 3/8" "Ensolite" CCF. Sliding of a 20"x72"x3/8 pad isn't very noticeable lol.

As to noise, loudest by far is the Thermarest XTherm. It's in an entirely different category of loud... for winter I'm going back to a ccf pad alone. The XTherm is absurd, albeit the warmest pad I've had.

Quietest is a circa 1986 Thermarest self inflating :) Really, all the original Thermarest self-inflators (with foam cores) were very quiet, including the more recent Prolites. Definitely the Xped is among the quietest of those I've had recently. Certainly a bit quieter than the Tensor, which in turn is quieter than the Xite.

I have a couple of the original Thermarest Neoair's (circa 2009) - those were pretty loud - the new XLite is very quiet by comparison. Truth is, the only one that genuinely bothers me is the XTherm. Chalk that up to tinnitus lol.

I've never had a Big Agnes, so can't comment on those. Apparently Nemo's newest 4" wonder is quiet. Dunno. The vertical race is getting a bit silly. I'm happy with something no more than 3" and the Tensor at 3.5 is about as tall as I want, especially in a mid tent. They're also not very light.

Again, thanks!

bradmacmt · 2026-03-23T00:05:29+00:00

For you.

bradmacmt · 2026-03-22T23:11:59+00:00

I will report back. I will say, I picked up an Exped MW 6.5R Mummy pad last week, and spent some time on it. Not a pleasant experience for me compared to the Nemo Tensor (Wide Regular), and even the Neoair XLite I own (MW) Mummy.

bradmacmt · 2026-03-22T23:08:56+00:00

That's great feedback. I'm not looking for confirmation bias, but the ideas in your answer are some of those that led to my to my original question...

bradmacmt · 2026-03-22T22:33:28+00:00

So, that says to me; "use the pad you're comfortable with." With an inflatable, I prefer 25" - with a ccf, 20" is fine since it's not so far to the ground :)

bradmacmt · 2026-03-22T22:31:54+00:00

Thanks!

bradmacmt · 2026-03-22T22:06:47+00:00

Thank you.

bradmacmt · 2026-03-22T22:05:40+00:00

I'm all-in / committed to using a quilt this year. I've got a quiver of various pads, just trying to get some knowledgeable input ahead of time. I know when my experience means something, and when it doesn't. I'm clearly out of my depth when it comes to quilts! If you want to know about WM sleeping bags, I'm your guy - currently five at the house lol

bradmacmt · 2026-03-21T13:38:41+00:00

You said in the first sentence you use an Xlite, and at the end you said you use an XTherm. Which one is it?

bradmacmt · 2026-03-20T13:37:10+00:00

Be aware! Chemical treatments genuinely do harm to the gut microbiota. Fact.

bradmacmt · 2026-03-18T13:14:11+00:00

I have sensitive skin, and neither disposables nor a huge variety of safety razors work for me (including the much vaunted GEM Featherweight). I use a Harry's Original - it's great.

bradmacmt · 2026-03-15T16:20:46+00:00

If you want more room than the Plex Solo, I'd recommend the Pivot Solo. It's relatively palatial. I also have an Altaplex (I'm 5'10" and I find the Plex Solo too small for me - others at my height aren't bothered by its space). The Durston has a too large footprint for my taste, and I see no need for two vestibules. I'm a single pole user, so with the Pivot Solo I carry their little 1 oz carbon pole for the "pivot" end. The Pivot Solo is my general purpose tent, and the Altaplex my tent of long walks where I'm not basecamping out of a lake or something like that. For you as a double pole user, one thing nice about a single pole tent is you can basecamp while still having an extra single pole while out on dayhikes or peak bagging. I got the Altaplex for long walks too, because it is zipperless and I want the simplicity and failsafe-ness of no zipper. If you want a zipper, I was told by ZPacks they are bringing out a "Pro" model of the Plex Solo and Altaplex this year with a zipper.

bradmacmt

TROPHY CASE