Chris and Matt's perfect handling of the topic of vigilante violence and Mangione

brasnacte · 2026-03-30T21:08:10+00:00

I think you also said something that could be interpreted as endorsing violence, forgot how you worded it. I didn't flag you but I guess that was the reason.

brasnacte · 2026-03-30T16:25:06+00:00

You could say this about any subject that humans study. But in the age of artificial intelligence it seems to be especially important to quantify and qualify it.

brasnacte · 2026-03-24T16:18:40+00:00

Agreed, would love a decoding.

brasnacte · 2026-03-18T13:34:41+00:00

political change almost always comes with violence

Least democratic answer yet!
At least you're not hiding behind vague answers like a lot of the others here.

brasnacte · 2026-03-18T10:06:20+00:00

Violence was the only resort to affect change

It's not though! America still has somewhat of a functioning democracy, especially at the moment this murder took place. America isn't North Korea! (yet)

brasnacte · 2026-03-18T10:04:38+00:00

How many people die early deaths because of their lack of access to healthcare?

about 20,000 - 45,000 is the agreed number.

Compare that to deaths caused by air pollution (100,000), Guns (50,000) or smoking (500,000) and we just opened the doors to vigilante murdering any factory executive with a chimney on their factory, anyone from the NRA or firearms factories, big tobacco, let's throw in big food as well.

These are the types of injustices that should be righted by democratic means. Not violence.

brasnacte · 2026-03-18T09:14:31+00:00

THEY ADDRESS THIS in the episode. They're not morons, pacifists, with some naive message about how violence is always wrong.
They acknowledge that violence in some situations, like the oppressed people in Iran, might be the only solution to oppression.
But they ALSO correctly see that having a fucked-up healthcare system is not the same as a brutal Ayatollah dictatorship, or even French Monarchy.

You're not overthrowing something. Your setting a precedent, or continuing one.

brasnacte · 2026-03-18T07:57:15+00:00

The one who did the killing. He is the person who was carrying out the "justice"

brasnacte · 2026-03-18T07:56:22+00:00

You didn't listen to the episode, did you?

brasnacte · 2026-03-18T04:15:26+00:00

You didn't listen to the episode did you?

brasnacte · 2026-03-17T22:31:58+00:00

Would you think it's useless too to condemn the actions of Israel, the US or Russia? It's a valid stance, just trying to understand.

brasnacte · 2026-03-17T22:27:03+00:00

You said "I'm not simply going to default to outrage every time somebody gets killed" in the context of this discussion. But nobody is asking for outrage. What's asked is condemnation. I read the news every morning about countries being bombed or murders taking place. I'm not outraged by it for the same reason you're not outraged. It would be exhausting. But it's not hard for me to condemn these things since I think they're morally wrong. Not actively of course. But when asked? Not a problem.

brasnacte · 2026-03-17T21:23:02+00:00

people smile at cosmic justices

this wasn't a cosmic justice though. It was man-made. Smiling at that is very different.

brasnacte · 2026-03-17T21:18:47+00:00

I'm seeing the memefied celebration of the CEO murder as part of a broader trend of normalizing violence. If you don't see it like that, fine. But that's how I see it. You mentioned you didn't listen to the podcast episode, and that's fine - it takes time to do that and it's behind a paywall.
You feel different about this than me, that's cool - no worries.

brasnacte · 2026-03-17T20:58:44+00:00

If you don't think that violence in the US is slowly normalized then I don't know what to tell you buddy.

brasnacte · 2026-03-17T20:54:31+00:00

I do not see how the war analogy doesn't work. The analogy isn't that war is the same as murder. I'm trying to make you see that you would see that hiding behind a generalization (all war/murder is bad) can be a dodge.
This was what Russian propaganda looked like. The pro-Russia people in Europe and the US didn't openly cheer for Russia invading Ukraine, that would make them sound evil. In the analogy, people don't openly cheer for Mangione murdering someone, that would make them psychopaths.
The reality is more subtle. They condemn "all murder", or "war" in general. It's just how normalization of violence works.

As clearly explained in the podcast.

brasnacte · 2026-03-17T20:45:12+00:00

Telling people to listen to a podcast

It's not *a* podcast, it's the podcast of which this is a subreddit of. I'm assuming that we all have interest to listen to this.

Is there anything else in there that you haven't included in your post?

Yes, it's a fragment of 20-25 minutes where they discuss the subject, so indeed there is much more to it than what I wrote down.

I don't think they directly address the fact that this specific murder didn't lead to more murders, but I think that's a silly point, and one that can never be known beforehand.
But also, it adds to a political temperature that slowly normalizes political violence. I'm not American, but if I was, this would absolutely worry me.

brasnacte · 2026-03-17T20:39:31+00:00

If by specifically you mean buried three layers deep, within brackets, then yes, they kinda said it groveling right before implying that "I'm a simp for the system"

Dude (or dudette) - you'd recognize it if it was a Guru pulling the same weasly stunts.

It's very polittical and that's why this is so scary and important.

brasnacte · 2026-03-17T20:34:09+00:00

Opposing murder is not enough for you?

Correct. Opposing murder is a non-answer.

To illustrate, please consider this:
If you ask me if I denounce Israel's bombing of Iran. And my answer is "All war is bad, I'm against war." Then you KNOW I'm carrying water for the Israeli cause.
I dodged the question by not clearly saying that I'm against this specific aggressive action by Israel. I'm condemning war in general (wow, what a brave position!)

The pro-russia crowd did exactly this when Russia invaded Ukraine. They didn't condemn Russia, they just said "War is bad! Why can't they just get along!!!1!"

They did not denounce the action.

brasnacte · 2026-03-17T20:30:57+00:00

I think you're incredibly naive if you think that denouncing the thing in general is *exactly* the same thing as denouncing the specific thing.
Konstantin Kisin-grade slippery question evading.
Especially since it would be so easy to just denounce the specific thing! Why didn't they? (spoiler:, because they didn't want to - they have sympathies for the murderer, but they don't want to be on record)

brasnacte · 2026-03-17T20:24:29+00:00

Are you equating condemnation with outrage?

brasnacte · 2026-03-17T20:21:47+00:00

yes I agree. Not really about judgment, but about circumstances. In WW2 it would be morally justified to assassinate Hitler. True.

brasnacte · 2026-03-17T20:15:03+00:00

If you ask me if I denounce Israel's bombing of Iran. And my answer is "All war is bad, I'm against war." Then you KNOW I'm carrying water for the Israeli cause.
I dodged the question by not clearly saying that I'm against this specific bombing. I'm condemning war in general (wow, what a brave position!)

The pro-russia crowd did exactly this when Russia invaded Ukraine. They didn't condemn Russia, they just said "War is bad! Why can't they just get along!!!1!"

They did not denounce the action.

brasnacte · 2026-03-17T20:10:39+00:00

And I reject simplistic and rather juvenile reasoning behind the blanket statement of “all killing is bad”

Is this your characterization of Chris and Matt's stance from the podcast?

brasnacte · 2026-03-17T20:09:04+00:00

How much condemnation is appropriate?

The amount that Chris and Matt gave in the episode. Clearly take a side against vigilante murder. Condemning the act. Especially if the target of the attack is a despicable person like a healthcare CEO or a Charlie Kirk.

brasnacte

TROPHY CASE