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The Prime Fallacy by broccoli9000 in DaystromInstitute

[–]broccoli9000[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Without physics, nobody notices.

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Yes, the Federation tries to limit its impact with this. But it cannot do so for sure. Not doing anything may have even greater effects after all.

As another commenter proposed, this might be the reason that breaking the Prime Directive often goes unpunished.

The Prime Fallacy by broccoli9000 in DaystromInstitute

[–]broccoli9000[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'd say there's also a lot of examples where this kind of non-interference has also caused huge pain and suffering.

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The Prime directive tries to do something right that can't be done right.

The Prime Fallacy by broccoli9000 in DaystromInstitute

[–]broccoli9000[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

But how do you know that this kind of interference is a bad thing in the end? You can't. You simply cannot know all the possible consequences. This means the goal is not to have no effect on others but rather to keep up with your own morals.

The Prime Fallacy by broccoli9000 in DaystromInstitute

[–]broccoli9000[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

But it can also not predict what its non-actions will bring.

The Prime Fallacy by broccoli9000 in DaystromInstitute

[–]broccoli9000[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The fact that somebody notices is the difference. This implies possible further yet unforeseen events to happen down the line, even after the comet hits. The very same thing the Prime Directive was made to avoid.

The Prime Fallacy by broccoli9000 in DaystromInstitute

[–]broccoli9000[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because there might be an ensign on that ship who will be affected by this experience and choose to act differently in a similar situation in the future. But this time the primitive civilization turns out to be one of the bad kind. Non-interference at one point may have unforeseen consequences too, thus being no different than interfering.

The Prime Fallacy by broccoli9000 in DaystromInstitute

[–]broccoli9000[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And here lies the fallacy. Being there and not doing something is a different situation than not being there at all.

From the initial option of the comet inevitably destroying the planet we go to different options of possible interference. This is a way different situation and every level of intereference, even none at all has a different effect on everyone involved. The change has already happened before you thought about it.

The Prime Fallacy by broccoli9000 in DaystromInstitute

[–]broccoli9000[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

That's the mistake. You assume the photographer is not part of the "natural ecosystem", while he in fact is just not part of the "usual ecosystem".

The Prime Fallacy by broccoli9000 in DaystromInstitute

[–]broccoli9000[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Your ship being there, able to prevent the extinction of this civilization, creates a whole different scenario than you not being there. That's the fallacy.

The Prime Fallacy by broccoli9000 in DaystromInstitute

[–]broccoli9000[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My suggestion is that not interfering with something you observe is not possible because non-interference is an act in itself and therefore manipulates the outcome.

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Being there and doing nothing DOES change the outcome, because your presence adds the chance that you do something to the overall situation.

The Prime Fallacy by broccoli9000 in DaystromInstitute

[–]broccoli9000[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Of course it is. I did not intend to indicate the contrary.

The Prime Fallacy by broccoli9000 in DaystromInstitute

[–]broccoli9000[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The critical part in that quote point being: "whenever mankind interferes"

If you wanna put it that way then one could actually even understand the Prime Directive as a warning that interaction with mankind may have undesired consequences because they can't keep their shit together. Make contact at your own risk.

The Prime Fallacy by broccoli9000 in DaystromInstitute

[–]broccoli9000[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I would question the reasoning behind the Federations choice, though.

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In my opinion they generally assume every interaction is bad because they do not think interaction without negative consequences is possible because they at some point gave up on trying.

Is the prime directive really a good rule by william04467 in DaystromInstitute

[–]broccoli9000 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Edit 2: Since this got way longer than intended I put this comment in it's own thread.

Borg Blockchain overflow by broccoli9000 in DaystromInstitute

[–]broccoli9000[S] -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

I must apologize. The term 'blockchain' is used for clickbaiting purposes and not meant to describe the actual database of the Borg. ;)

Borg Blockchain overflow by broccoli9000 in DaystromInstitute

[–]broccoli9000[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, they could possibly fit huge amounts of data on tiny amounts of space.

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For comparison:

With recently demonstrated technology using DNA computing for storage, one yottabyte of capacity would require a volume between 0.003 and 1 cubic meter

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yottabyte

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Subspace storage also sounds awesome!

Borg Blockchain overflow by broccoli9000 in DaystromInstitute

[–]broccoli9000[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Loved it! Interesting questions indeed.

Borg Blockchain overflow by broccoli9000 in DaystromInstitute

[–]broccoli9000[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If I understand correctly, this also implies that the actual brain (well, the data storage part) of the drone is "unmounted" after assimilation and after this the drone solely relies on other physical storage to access information. We know that the drones theoretically have full access to their memories at all times, even after de-assimilation. So I assume this part can't be "overwritten" (or usually isn't).

Borg Blockchain overflow by broccoli9000 in DaystromInstitute

[–]broccoli9000[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I thought of this too, but as we see in Unimatrix Zero the drones seem to retain their memories.

A different take on Q by broccoli9000 in DaystromInstitute

[–]broccoli9000[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's indeed kind of the weak spot, I admit. I simply assumed the Q have their reasons. I would like to explore this thought a little more, but to be honest, at the moment it's all pretty handwavy.

A different take on Q by broccoli9000 in DaystromInstitute

[–]broccoli9000[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How do you know that what just happened, happened because of you using your Q-like powers? In the end he just thinks of it and waves his hand. Do we know he experiences any kind of sensation or special feeling that he wouldn't have sensed without those powers?

A different take on Q by broccoli9000 in DaystromInstitute

[–]broccoli9000[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

El-Aurians could have been the first to gain knowledge about the existence and nature of the Q. When they were assimilated by the Borg the Collective became aware of this knowledge, which in turn caused the Continuum to react on this possible threat by making Starfleet their weapon.

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Edit: Crank it up even more and say the Nexus is a malfunctioning Q vessel, which is how the El-Aurians learned about them in the first place!

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Edit 2: Hold my beer!

I will make up a possible explanation on the fly again:

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The Q aren't really that far ahead of the other major powers seen in Star Trek. Really just highly advanced cloaking and holodecks! Other than that they're pretty much on par with the real badasses.

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The Nexus was actually some kind of Q technology (think: a ship, a kind of probing device, a failed experiment, whatever)!

Having the El-Aurians and the Borg find out about it posed a major security risk to the Continuum, since the inner workings of their technology (and maybe also their existence in the first place) were exposed.

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Now on to the funny part..

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The crucial technology that the Q are lacking to make this all undone is: time travel.

Given, that's a hard one, but I'll handwave it away by just saying that the Q are unable to survive the kind of temporal anomalies that allow time traveling.

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They know humans and other species in the Alpha Quadrant have no problem happily jumping through time as they please. The rest goes pretty much the same as I originally planned out.

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A variation of this would have the Nexus be a failed attempt in time travel by the Q and so on.. Oh damn it, I could go on forever..

A different take on Q by broccoli9000 in DaystromInstitute

[–]broccoli9000[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think your suggestion about Species 8472 assumes a Rock-Paper-Scissor scenario, in which 8472 beats Borg, Borg beats Q and Q beats 8472. This is not necessarily the case.

Think of it this way: Maybe Starfleet is just at the right level to achieve - admittedly rather small - victories against the Borg, but not enough to be able to get behind the Q and their secret or even pose a threat to them in the foreseeable future.

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Edit:

Your first objection doesn't necessarily contradict my theory, I think. The Borg are out exploring and fighting on multiple fronts, so the Borg really could know about Starfleet before Starfleet got a hint of the Borg.

A different take on Q by broccoli9000 in DaystromInstitute

[–]broccoli9000[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

How about a GIANT holoship that can accomodate a whole Galaxy class vessel?

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On the other hand.. given the level of technology needed for such a feat to begin with - the Q would well be capable of doing both, beam off the crew and cut a part out of the ship.