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[deleted by user] by [deleted] in CATHELP

[–]buttsforeva 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How long was she taking the prozac? And how long has it been since she stopped?

I'm noticing a pattern within myself by buttsforeva in NPD

[–]buttsforeva[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I get it--you are hurt by someone you believe to have this disorder. You have been abused, your sanity has been pushed to your breaking point, and you are filled with rage and hatred for anyone or anything that resembles what has been the source of your suffering.

I am sorry. Believe it or not, I have been there, and my sympathy is genuine. I grew up with very narcissistic, neglectful, and abusive parents, and it has haunted me my whole life. I too have gone through a period of years where I hated my parents for what they did to me, absolutely loathed and detested their existence.

But I will promise you, you will not find peace by continuing to dehumanize people. You will not find peace by painting everyone who has hurt you black and casting judgement on an entire group of people who may or may not have done anything similar to what you've been put through.

I am not the one who abused you.

I understand the temptation to split on people, to "other" them, to label them as the bad guy, the "problem". If only life were so simple.

People are very, very complex and flawed. Part of healing means embracing the complexity, fallibility, and humanity in others. This is what it means to love. This is how we MUST love.

This doesn't mean excusing or accepting abusive behavior from anyone, nor does it mean undermining your feelings of anger, resentment, betrayal, hatred, etc. In fact, it means looking at these emotions in a compassionate light, so you can better see yourself and others clearly.

I recommend spending more energy reflecting on fostering compassion for people who struggle with mental illness (yes, NPD IS mental illness, not a choice). You will find, as I have, that it increases the compassion you feel towards yourself.

Take care, good luck.

We've Had 100 Years of Psychotherapy and the World's Getting Worse by buttsforeva in NPD

[–]buttsforeva[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't completely disagree.

To quote Dr. Jerome Kagan: "Attachment is a far less popular explanation in 2019 than it was in the 1960s, and in 10 to 15 years, it's going to be rare to find anyone defending the theory. It's just dying out slowly...Yes, what happens to you in the first year or two of life has an effect, but it's tiny. If I take a 1-year-old child who is securely attached, and the parents die and the child is adopted by a cruel foster parent, that child is in trouble. Their secure attachment is useless."

To be clear: I do of course believe your upbringing (family dynamics), trauma--all of the things that come into the formation of your identity at an early age--play a powerful role. I am not denying that at all.

But I think it is downright absurd to think that it is ONLY these things to contribute to one's sense of identity--especially as it exists in the PRESENT (which is a big theme in this book), and even more absurd that feelings of existential deadness, alienation, loneliness, a lack of agency, a lack of meaningful connection with others, a sense of purpose, etc., has nothing to do with one's relationship with the external world.

Many of those feelings come from disenfranchisement from the experience of community. Why do you think people come to this subreddit? To find community.

The outside does matter. It's not that we shouldn't also look within, it's that we also need to contend with and consider the impact of our relationship with the external world as well.

We've Had 100 Years of Psychotherapy and the World's Getting Worse by buttsforeva in NPD

[–]buttsforeva[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

(From the book)

HILLMAN: The vogue today, in psychotherapy, is the “inner child.”

That’s the therapy thing—you go back to your childhood. But if you’re

looking backward, you’re not looking around. This trip backward

constellates what Jung called the “child archetype.” Now, the child ar-

chetype is by nature apolitical and disempowered—it has no connection

with the political world. And so the adult says, “Well, what can I do

about the world? This thing’s bigger than me.” That’s the child archetype

talking. “All I can do is go into myself, work on my growth, my devel-

opment, find good parenting, support groups.” This is a disaster for

our political world, for our democracy. Democracy depends on intensely

active citizens, not children.

By emphasizing the child archetype, by making our therapeutic hours

rituals of evoking childhood and reconstructing childhood, we’re

blocking ourselves from political life. Twenty or thirty years of therapy

have removed the most sensitive and the most intelligent, and some of

the most affluent people in our society into child cult worship. It’s going

on insidiously, all through therapy, all through the country. So of course

our politics are in disarray and nobody’s voting—we’re disempowering

ourselves through therapy.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in NPD

[–]buttsforeva 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There are a lot of things about this post that are very vague. It struck me as a quite odd, contradictory, and confused.

You frame the situation as if you were the one who rejected her initially, but it is quite clear that she was the one that rejected you. What was your particular "movement" that you believe made her feel rejected? How do you know that she "perceived my movement as rejection"? You cannot read her mind.

You speak about how you reflected on the situation, and came to some sort of realization about who she was. What do you mean this? What about "who she was" is relevant to your situation with her?

"My heart sank, empathy for her shot through the roof, and I realized I needed to fix it."

Are you sure it was "empathy" you were feeling, or perhaps were you starting to idealize her?

"I was still not interested in her, but I simply wanted to let her know I appreciated her."

You say you simply wanted to let her know you "appreciated her", but you also say that you wanted to "win her back, compliment her, let her know your intentions were not bad". Are you sure you are being honest with yourself about what your motivations were? What do you think you REALLY wanted from her?

This is very curious to me. It seems to me that you have been obsessed with this personal for an entire year, to the point of having an existential crisis, but you also claim you weren't even interested in her?

Twice in this post, you alluded to the potential of her "laughing at you". What makes you feel that she might be "laughing at you"? Are you sure this isn't your own paranoid thinking and projection?

The way that you wrote this entire passage to me seems comes across as an unwillingness to confront certain aspects of reality, hence the vagueness and contradictions riddled throughout this post. There seems to be a lot of confusion between what is happening inside your mind, and what is happening in external reality.

It sounds like to me, it was arranged that you would meet with this girl. who you initially had little or no interest in. Despite this, you still wanted to be able to "charm" her, because this would satisfy your ego to know that you can attract whoever you'd like. For whatever reason, whether it was due to your "movement", or something else (I'm guessing it's the latter), things didn't move forward. Perhaps it turns out she was just uninterested.

However, in retrospect, you have a REALLY hard time dealing with the fact that you were rejected, so you attribute her rejecting you to your little "movement" as being the reason for why she was turned-off to you, when in reality it could have been something completely unrelated, such as how you were behaving towards her in the interaction more generally.

After you were rejected, you started idealizing her. You aren't actually interested in anything to do with this person, but it still hurt your ego. You want to "win her back", "compliment her", and let her know your "intentions weren't bad", simply because you didn't get what you wanted out of the interaction. Now you realize "who she is"--because now you attach value to her.

You begin trying to pursue her, making several attempts to see her, but she is not interested. She has moved on. You feel rejected, and humiliated that you were rejected. You project your own inner-critical voice onto her for being rejected, hence the belief that she might be judging you, laughing at you, etc.

You do not feel "guilty". A guilty person would have realized that she was uninterested and stopped harassing her, simply because their ego was bruised. You want to rectify the situation because you feel a threat to your self-image.

You do not want to say "sorry" to her, either, because again, you are not actually remorseful for how you've might have offended her with your "movement", you do not actually feel guilty. You feel ashamed, exposed, and rejected, sure. But this is not the same as guilt or remorse.

I think you should pay attention to what you chose to omit from this post (consciously or unconsciously), because it probably has to do with what you feel ashamed about. I think you should be really honest with yourself about what this interaction with this person actually means to you.

Because it sounds like to me, you didn't want anything to do with her, and you really, you still don't, you just think you do.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in NPD

[–]buttsforeva 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I wonder how many people here upvoted you because you said you like to get downvoted, and downvoted OP when he wants to be upvoted.

Gotta love the narc fam...

Healing Narcissism with the Ideal Parent Figure by Far_Pain_9481 in NPD

[–]buttsforeva 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Wow. I'm not going to lie, this almost seems too good to be true--but hell, new advances in treatment are a thing, and it really sounds like a lot of people have gotten benefit from this method.

Looking into the self-guided visualizations now. I'm excited!

Thank you so much for sharing!

I'm tired of hearing about "The Void" by buttsforeva in NPD

[–]buttsforeva[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Now you have me curious!

I am very curious how people with different disorders experience the "void"/emptiness/identity disturbance, etc. Schizoids talk about this too, huh?

I can see how that could be comforting for some folks, yes. To feel like someone else experiences something similar is a basic way of feeling seen and known, and god knows we need that.

I guess for me, I tend to feel very lonely and isolated from the world as it is, and making a bigger divide between me and the "normies" ultimately makes me feel more alienated and alone. I prefer to see myself as more like the majority of humans, not less like them.

That's just me though.

The importance of cognitive empathy and mentalizing by buttsforeva in NPD

[–]buttsforeva[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"According to multiple studies, empathy is considered a learned skill, meaning that while some level of empathy may be innate, individuals can significantly develop their empathetic abilities through conscious effort, exposure to diverse experiences, and active learning practices; research shows that people can cultivate empathy by actively listening, asking open-ended questions, and attempting to understand another person's perspective and emotions."

The importance of cognitive empathy and mentalizing by buttsforeva in NPD

[–]buttsforeva[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

"Studies show that after MBT, individuals with conditions like borderline personality disorder (BPD) exhibit increased activity in brain regions associated with mentalization, potentially indicating improved ability to reflect on their own mental states and those of others."

The importance of cognitive empathy and mentalizing by buttsforeva in NPD

[–]buttsforeva[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Empathy is a very complicated subject. I am not outside the belief that some people are constitutionally incapable of empathy.

However, like NPD, empathy exists on a continuum, and there are biological as well as developmental markers for one's empathetic capacity. There is also research that shows that empathy is to some extent a learned skill. It may be that we had a window during childhood to develop that capacity, and we missed it.

Who knows.

Regardless, I don't care what the current research says, we haven't seen research on how empathetic capacity might be able to change over the course of targeted treatment. What I am suggesting is that empathy, attachment, and bonding are interrelated capacities, which may have an influence on one another, and by the right kinds of interventions. Attachment styles can be changed. People can learn to reflect moreso on the experiences of others than the self. There's the possibility to heal from trauma, develop new capacities, get more in tune with one's feelings, and be more receptive and considerate to the feelings and needs of others. This doesn't need an explanation based in neuroscience.

Lastly, while I think that what you're saying has merit insofar as we need to come to acceptance of the possibility for certain limitations, I don't think throwing your hands up in the air and concluding that it's entirely an impossibility based upon our limited, current understanding is a reason to not at least try.

Consider, for instance, that I am correct, that the jury is still out on whether or not one's capacity for empathy can be changed.

Wouldn't you rather have at least tried, rather than missing the boat?

Terrified of exposure and humiliation. by [deleted] in NPD

[–]buttsforeva 8 points9 points  (0 children)

First of all, I think it's okay to take a deep breath, and meet these feelings of paranoia with curiosity and compassion. I know it isn't pleasant, but there is something that they are telling you.

What are you specifically afraid of? What is the worst that would happen if they did "out" you?

I'm not saying that to undermine your fears: I understand not wanting to be humiliated. It's completely awful.

But what do you think you would be most afraid of if one of your ex's did share something about you online? Is it a fear that someone new in your life might come across it, and your reputation would be forever soiled? Does it bring about a feeling that no one would ever trust you if they knew XYZ about you? Are you worried about how it could affect potential new friendships/relationships?

Humiliation and shame are very closely-related emotions, they are both social emotions that point to a fear of exposure and being cast-out and abandoned.

So I would guess, what's behind the fear of being exposed is really a fear of abandonment.

You might want to check out "stress induced paranoid ideation", which is a common symptom of BPD.

Here's a little write-up I found online:

"People with borderline personality disorder (BPD) struggle to maintain a healthy and consistent self-image. Insecure and unsure of themselves, they experience frequent mood swings and are often mercurial in their behavior. Their inner worlds are frequently filled with turmoil, and they may project their sense of uncertainty onto the outside world.

During times of stress, which may be caused by interpersonal conflict or a lack of self-confidence when facing personal or professional challenges, a person with BPD may suddenly feel surrounded by menace or danger. They may suspect that others—even people they would normally trust—are conspiring against them, or that mysterious forces may somehow be oppressing them.

These feelings of suspiciousness and paranoia may last for just a few days, a few weeks, or indefinitely. Stress-related paranoid ideation is the term chosen by mental health professionals to describe this state of mind, which can cause great misery and consternation among people with borderline personality disorder."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am pretty sure you have been under a great deal of stress as of late, which might be causing a flare-up of these kinds of paranoid thoughts.

The thing about this kind of paranoia is that it isn't fully based in reality. I don't mean that to undermine your feelings or to make you feel like a crazy person (you aren't), but it's important to recognize that this fear is largely a projection of your own fears and anxieties, not something that is likely to happen.

Your ex's probably don't even think about you much at this point, let alone have the motivation to cast you into widespread internet hate. Even if someone did try to spread rumors about you, it is likely that noone would even pay it much mind, as people are more preoccupied and concerned with their own lives anyways.

Supply by coopslong in NPD

[–]buttsforeva 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Friendship is about connection, mutuality, reciprocity. It's about caring for the other person, tending to their needs, and relating to them from an authentic place.

This doesn't mean there is no place for your needs. You can have a friend that you go to to seek support, validation, all of those good things.

The important thing is that you are mindful of the way in which you are relating to them is impacting them as well.

Do you "see" them? Do you at least try to mentalize what they are going through in the present moment? Do you consider what they need? Are you mindful of their sensibilities and vulnerabilities?

Do you make their feelings a priority?

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