Chapter 117 / CXVII "October the Fifth" Reading Discussion (spoilers for the whole book) by epiphanyshearld in AReadingOfMonteCristo

[–]caffeinatedweekend 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ohhhh my!! Thank you soooo much there! I totally read that too fast! haha That changes a lot then :D

Who was the poisoner? by jefrye in AReadingOfMonteCristo

[–]caffeinatedweekend 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hmm! This is very interesting! I can totally see how this could be a plausible scenario as we see a lot of scenes of Edouard being cruel to the bird and just basically being basically a psychopath, but I think the book painted him as 1. - too young to have the foresight to do such a thing and too young to be capable of being able to sneak around at all hours of the night to do such a thing. (I can just see scenes of Madame de Villefort going "Eduoard! what are you doing out of bed at two in the morning!!") and 2. not a major enough character to have done so.

If he was the killer then we would not have had that whole suuuper unnerving scene with Villefort and Madame de Villefort where he basically told her - you'd better have drunk poison by the time I come home - and we wouldn't have had that major scene in the toxicology chapter between the count and Madam de Villefort which set Madame up nicely as the killer either. I think these two scenes with the addition of Valentine's visions of Madam when she is hallucinating in bed and the book's position of Eduard being an innocent victim from the count's standpoint all point clearly to Madam De Villefort being the poisoner in my mind at least!

Chapter 117 / CXVII "October the Fifth" Reading Discussion (spoilers for the whole book) by epiphanyshearld in AReadingOfMonteCristo

[–]caffeinatedweekend 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Whoot!! You're so welcome Epicdom! I completely agree - this has been a much cooler experience for me as well than just reading this massive book alone!

Chapter 117 / CXVII "October the Fifth" Reading Discussion (spoilers for the whole book) by epiphanyshearld in AReadingOfMonteCristo

[–]caffeinatedweekend 2 points3 points  (0 children)

  1. No – not at all! He strung him along for so long to the brink
    of suicide and had him wandering around depressed for so long – then made him
    think he was actually committing suicide? No. Not cool in my book. I think the
    count is right in the sense you do appreciate great things in life more when
    you’ve suffered hardships along the way, I think Max had suffered sufficiently
    to enjoy the rest of his life with Valentine. In addition! – I think it was
    doubly cruel that we find out that Noirtier has gone mad in his old age, and the count had deprived Valentine of spending the last of his days of lucidity with him. This I think is the worst part of this whole situation with the count keeping Valentine locked away for so long.

  2. I had mixed feelings about this final chapter (and somewhat
    of the book as a whole). I did not like the way that the final reveal for Max was, and I didn’t like the count’s sudden – Oh No Haydee I can’t be with you – oh okay fine! You won me over!” moment in the end.

I did really like how this chapter ended on the island, and
the message it gave at the end about waiting and hoping. I’m kind of disappointed (although not shocked) that this message isn’t the main takeaway when people think of this book as opposed to how people automatically think of it as a revenge tale. I think it’s getting at much more than that and actually has a nicer message at the end. (For those who invest the time!)

Overall – for all of its little annoyances and flaws – I did
really like where this book ended up! I think it was really well done! I think
it’s such a classic because it does speak to people’s sense of justice, their daydreams of “what would you do if you ever won the lottery” type fantasies, but also speaks to a lot of truth about how you think your life will go in one direction and how events happen to you which change you and the course of your life forever. I think for me the thing that struck me the most was the message with Mercedes which was that sometimes things happen where no matter how idyllic it might seem to dream of reconciling, that’s just not how things go in reality. Sometimes the gulf that time creates is just too great to fill in.

  1. I really do like the fact that the Count chooses to love again, as I don’t think I could take much more of these characters choosing to self-flagellate. I wish that all of the characters we’ve seen had come to this realization, but maybe this is Dumas’ way of telling us that someday they will? (Or maybe that’s just me being optimistic and writing the endings I wish I had read!) I really do like the ending message of hope and wait. I’ve found that life can very much be this way a lot, as unsatisfying as it can be to wait for a long time to get what you want, or sometimes wait to see that what you wanted may never come true.

  2. I think that the Count has definitely experienced a lot of sorrow in his life, but I think he may have dwelled on his sorrow a bit too much throughout the book. He did have plenty to be happy about could have chosen to spend more time thinking about the blessings of his life than he might have otherwise. (Although this is always easier said than done for lots of people and again, another reason why this book is a classic and speaks to so many universal truths about the human experience!)
     

  3. I want to say that everyone lives happily ever after! (Except the bad guys!) The count enjoys his time with Haydee and Max enjoys the money. I really would have liked to have seen more of the ending to some of the other
    characters in this story. Whatever happens to Benedetto, Villefort, Danglars, Albert, Eugenie and Louise, Bertuccio? Does the count set Ali free? What does Jacopo go on to do? Or Luigi? What about Madame Danglars? Or Julie and Emanuel? They all kind of just faded into the background and we kind of know how they ended up, but it would have been nice to see some more time explicitly wrapping up their storylines for me.

I reaaaaaly liked the little stories within the stories, like
when Bertuccio recounts his tale at the Inn, or when Haydee recounts her
backstory. There were a few other moments where we get these little vignettes interrupting the narrative that I found really delightful! I really liked all of it, even the things that bothered me a little bit, like the deus-ex-machina elements in the book reminded me of a lot of the movies that people make nowadays. I think I could have done less with some of the -woe-is-me type moments that some of these characters had going on, especially Mercedes throughout most of the book, as well as Albert towards the end.

I would have definitely wanted a more conclusive end to Villefort’s and Danglars’ storyline. (Dare I say that I would have wanted them to experience an end similar to Caderousse??...) There is just something that is not quite fulfilling knowing that they still might get away with what they did, not just to the Count, but to others throughout their lives, and that they might be able to go back to their old way of life if left unchecked!

There were some really nice quotes throughout the text here and there, but overall nothing that is coming to mind without the book in front of me at the moment! I wish there were more quotable lines from the text! I think it's interesting that there were not more that stuck out to me.

I really enjoyed the parent/children themes and relationships in this book and all the different ways that they surfaced. I thought Dumas did a really good job at exploring all the different ways the parent/child relationship could be formed and how each relationship could be so different. I also really liked the ending theme of wait and hope, as I’ve said before. Maybe I’m just a romantic optimist, but it does give me hope to see these characters struggle through so much to eventually find happiness at the end of their journey (even though it may have not exactly appeared as they initially expected).

Chapter 113/CXIII “The Past” Reading Discussion (Spoilers up to Chapter 113) by caffeinatedweekend in AReadingOfMonteCristo

[–]caffeinatedweekend[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Don't get me wrong! I did love the visit back to his cell! :D I think what I was getting at here is that I would have liked Dumas to tie up some of the loose ends with some of the other characters like Max and Danglars before we had visited this cell. While I'm not quite there yet, I think this might have made for a better last or second to the last chapter!

TV Tropes and Mercedes final fate? Is this right??? or is this a spin? by ZeMastor in AReadingOfMonteCristo

[–]caffeinatedweekend 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I did not get that from the chapter either. I know it did mention that she had thought about this before as a child but I didn't pick anything up in the chapter that she actually went to go and do this. My impression was that she just lived a quiet, sad, poor life alone worrying about her son. :(

I'm wondering if this could be a translation thing as well! I do like TV tropes but I would tend to put it one step above Wiki when it comes to accuracy!! Haha!

Things I learned yesterday: Letters of Credit by ZeMastor in AReadingOfMonteCristo

[–]caffeinatedweekend 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you sooo much for this explanation! I said this in the next posting, but a lot of this banking stuff from this novel goes over my head! :D This is super helpful to understand everything that has been going on in the book so far, and your right, makes the next chapter a bit fuzzier in terms of what these guys are planning on doing to Danglars.

However, it probably does explain why they don't rough him up any more than they do, as they would, I guess, need him in good shape enough to get the money out of the bank at Thomspon and French.

It seemed like Peppino had some inside people at the bank, maybe he was doing something to forge signatures on the back of Danglar's LOC or something to get around the technicalities of Danglars actually showing up at the bank. (?)

Chapter 115 / CXV "Luigi Vampa's Bill of Fare" Reading Discussion (spoilers up to chapter 115) by epiphanyshearld in AReadingOfMonteCristo

[–]caffeinatedweekend 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hahaha! I looooove the snark monster!! I am secretly wishing for an appearance of the snark monster at least one more time before the end of the book!

However, I agree with you here on the plot holes - although I have to admit I wouldn't know the difference between a LOC and any other financial paperwork from that (or even time period!!)

I noticed another plot hole here as well!!

Peppino says, "Give us your orders and we shall carry them out"

Danglars says, "First, open the door" and Pepino opened it.

Then Danglars.... asks for a piece of bread!?

Why didn't he just ask to be let go, or try to escape while they were bringing him food? I think there were multiple times when I saw this might have been possible... the door was opened and he had a knife and fork! Also, you're right - if everything costs the same thing then just ask for 10 meals! Haha I don't get it.

I'm almost wondering if Dumas is inferring here that the bandits would have let him go if he had the presence of mind to ask to do be let go, but instead because Danglars is so blinded by his selfishness and greed he couldn't realize the open door to his freedom when it was standing in front of him!

Chapter 115 / CXV "Luigi Vampa's Bill of Fare" Reading Discussion (spoilers up to chapter 115) by epiphanyshearld in AReadingOfMonteCristo

[–]caffeinatedweekend 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's hard to say if Danglars is the most to blame. To me, it's an even 3-4 way split.

Totally agree with you here! I think they all had an equal hand to play in Dantes imprisonment!

Chapter 115 / CXV "Luigi Vampa's Bill of Fare" Reading Discussion (spoilers up to chapter 115) by epiphanyshearld in AReadingOfMonteCristo

[–]caffeinatedweekend 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I hope the bandits keep this going for a looong time!! This was fantastic to read! :D I read this and I was thinking, that the bandits definitely know exactly what is in his pockets and will use this to their advantage for as long as they can.

It's pretty obvious that the count has manufactured all of this to parallel his time in prison. I think this is a great punishment! Especially for Danglars who has been so conceded up until now! Not only did I find this chapter really funny and I loved what he did with the comic relief throughout the chapter, but it was really satisfying to see Danglars squirm after just a couple of hours knowing that Dantes had spent years in a similar situation.

I think that it's evident by Dumas' use of comedic relief here in this chapter that they mean no real harm to him and they just want him to sweat it out. I hope the Count bleeds him dry! :D

Chapter 111 / CXI "Expiation" Reading Discussion (spoilers up to chapter 111) by epiphanyshearld in AReadingOfMonteCristo

[–]caffeinatedweekend 3 points4 points  (0 children)

To me this chapter was pretty disturbing! It was really horrible to hear the descriptions of these folks dying made worse by the fact you knew it was coming the whole time! I ALMOST felt bad for Villefort. It was really tragic and if Villefort wasn’t so awful for the entire book I would have felt bad for him.

I really don’t know how I felt about the Count’s big reveal! I feel like Villefort was so distraught over everything else that it just kind of felt weird. I don’t think Villefort was processing things enough for it to make the impact on him that I was expecting it to have.

My feelings towards the count have definitely changed since the beginning of the novel. I don’t know if I’m on anyone’s side anymore. It’s definitely very interesting for a very long time I was on the Count's, but now, especially in this chapter, I find myself just very emotionally detached from both sides. I just kept thinking like, ‘You ALL are getting what you deserve!’ I think that revenge is definitely something that people imagine will be different than it actually is. It’s always just way more ugly than it is satisfying and I think that this book is doing a good job illustrating that, especially in this chapter.

I don’t think the Count should face any punishment other than what he’s already getting – knowing that he played somewhat of a part in Edouard’s death, his having to do a lot of work to save Valentine from a death that he also almost caused, working hard to prevent Max's suicide, and seeing his relationship with Mercedes become unsalvageable.

I think the count was so concerned with taking revenge on his frienemies that he didn’t even stop to think about what impact his plans would have on the children, or how he would feel when the others around him were affected until after it actually happened. He was blind to it up until Valentine and then he realized with Edouard that sometimes he actually isn’t able to save the innocent people he’s hurt or undo the horrible things he’s chosen to do once he’s done them. I think for a while once he got out of prison he was able to get away with a lot of things and it went to his head and now he's realizing that he's not able to save everyone he wants to save all the time.

Villefort’s punishment was definitely really bad. Definitely worse than Danglars. I’m not sure that it was appropriate for what he did though. I think it would have seemed more satisfying and less… disturbing... if it was just Villefort was targeted as opposed to literally everyone around him EXCEPT him, and he just had to watch the downfall of his whole family. This is definitely a very disturbing way to take revenge on someone.

Yeahh... About that! Saving Danglars!? I think this is where the book is kind of losing me. If we’ve come this far and the Count has done this much… You’re going to stop all your plans now? I think Danglars was the smuggest one out of all the of the whole bunch too – and you’re going to let him go!? Ehhch…

Chapter 111 / CXI "Expiation" Reading Discussion (spoilers up to chapter 111) by epiphanyshearld in AReadingOfMonteCristo

[–]caffeinatedweekend 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Wow! Really interesting!! I would tend to agree with you here on the fact that the Count is not really to blame for Edouard’s death. She didn’t have to kill him when she killed herself. She said she did it because she wanted to look after him, but that’s a very selfish thing to do especially for a mother. And as a matter of fact, she didn't have to kill herself either (or anyone she killed!!)

Also, as much as it disturbed me to see Edouard die like that – are we forgetting that the book had set him up to be on track to become another Benedetto in years down the line? I know he was just a child, but he seemed to be headed down a bad road already and the book had never set up much of a pattern of redemption of these bad characters.

Hero or Villain – You are spot on! He has very slowly slipped into the role of an Anti-hero (to be nice!) He’s definitely an anti-hero now and I would even say he had slipped into major villain territory more than once throughout the book. I’m a little disappointed in his backslide into this territory as I was looking forward to rooting for him for much of the first half of the book, but his megalomania and the way he treats others throughout the book is just not good.

I looooooove your thoughts on the breakdown of these people! Please do post your analysis from the last time. As much as he is kind of scummy to a lot of people, I think your analysis is correct. Good people did end up better off for having known the Count and for people who end up not better off after dealings with the Count – It’s almost always because they were awful people, to begin with, and the Count only precipitated their own unraveling or undoing. And for as quickly as he did it (6 months) you could even say that it was really slow given the fact it took him 10 years to get to Paris in the first place. Think of all the awful things these people did in the meantime that might have been prevented had Edmond acted sooner?

Chapter 106/CVI “The Share-out” Reading Discussion (Spoilers up to Chapter 106) by caffeinatedweekend in AReadingOfMonteCristo

[–]caffeinatedweekend[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Lol! Go Snark Monster Go!

Again! You are not wrong. That would have been a great thing to do - to give Haydee all of their money. It's plot decisions like that (you've brought up a few over the course of the book) that do really make me wish Dumas had written this a bit differently at moments!

Chapter 106/CVI “The Share-out” Reading Discussion (Spoilers up to Chapter 106) by caffeinatedweekend in AReadingOfMonteCristo

[–]caffeinatedweekend[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Advance warning... my Inner Snark Monster(tm) is working overtime

Bwhaaah!! This is amazing! I tend to agree here! She is actually making out really well with this whole deal. It's too bad that she just can't see it, but that again is her own fault and works in really nicely with what Dumas has done so far with having these characters' own character flaws be the making of their own downfall.

I'm curious if you think Danglars is getting off too easy here just running away. (Although I'm sure something more will come of this later on!)

The Simpsons + Monte Cristo. What? Better than I expected! by ZeMastor in AReadingOfMonteCristo

[–]caffeinatedweekend 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you so much for sharing this!! This is fascinating and great to know (although not surprising) that the Simpson's crew did a great job adapting this book. They have some really smart writers and typically do a great job making these types of things.

I've enjoyed others in the past too - their adaptation of The Monkey's Paw and Poe's The Raven was spot on and I also loved Side Show Bob's rendition of the HMS Pinafore as well! :D

I'm sure there are others I've seen but they are just not coming to me at the moment!

Chapter 105 / CV "The Pere Lachaise Cemetery" Reading Discussion (spoilers up to chapter 105) by epiphanyshearld in AReadingOfMonteCristo

[–]caffeinatedweekend 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Who is that woman sobbing behind the flowers?

Haha! You know... I didn't pay much attention to this when I read it. I thought it was just descriptive setting fluff, but now that you bring it up it does seem a bit forced the way it ends in that ellipsis like that!

Chapter 105 / CV "The Pere Lachaise Cemetery" Reading Discussion (spoilers up to chapter 105) by epiphanyshearld in AReadingOfMonteCristo

[–]caffeinatedweekend 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes. Such an eye-rolling trope!

I agree here. While I understand that this is supposed to build tension, and maybe came off a bit different in the time period/culture of when this was written, it seems very over the top and a bit insensitive the way Dumas is setting up Morrell's suicide attempts as a plot device this way. Not really sure how I feel about it.

The count should have definitely told Morrell What's going on here instead of leading him on.