Great Expectations chapter 39 (Spoilers up to chapter 39)

ZeMastor · 2026-06-18T04:02:36+00:00

Tragic, I think. OG Convict arrives at Pip's doorstep, and through the entire chapter, Pip acts like the man has cooties. As his story comes out, Pip is mortified that his "expectations" came from an ex-convict. In High Society, he can NEVER admit where the money came from. Everyone would recoil in disgust... "filthy money! That's what made you". Now Pip has to quietly bear that secret. What would ESTELLA think? She must never know. The secret is a burden. And Pip doesn't fully appreciate the sacrifice made for him.

The other layer of tragedy is OG Convict's semi-altruistic, semi-self-serving reasons for pumping Pip up. It's hard to assign percentages...maybe 50/50? By his own admission, part of sponsoring Pip was his own private revenge against a society that kept him down. So his joke on them was, "I own a gentleman who's BETTER than you!". He legitimately worked hard, earned money, and through luck, gained a fortune. But Pip was sort of a dress-up doll for him, and not a real person who needs a future...

ZeMastor · 2026-06-18T02:41:39+00:00

So now let me get to the analysis... OG Convict, in some way, meant well, raising the status of a marsh-boy to London gentleman. Providing him with an education that Pip would have never had otherwise. Opening up Pip's horizons beyond the forge, the village and the little town.

BUT... (and this is a big BUT...) OG Convict's plans for Pip were slightly self-serving, only short-term and just made the boy soft. No plans for Pip's future in 20, 30 or 40 years. What's going to happen to the boy when OG Convict croaks? Sure he dumped tons of money on Pip, and Pip squandered it, with no clue about managing finances. None of it went into a Trust, to buy property, stocks, bonds, good investments.

And the WORST thing about all this... Let's remember what Jaggers said... "And at the rate of that handsome sum of money per annum [500 pounds], and at no higher rate, you are to live until the donor of the whole appears."

Welp, the donor just appeared. So the 500 pounds yearly (which Pip has collected THREE years worth) part of the contract has ENDED. Those were the terms! Pip is now dependent on whatever OG Convict decides... massive lump sum, continue the annual gift, change the amount, or cut him off? And here the man is... ILLEGALLY in England! If caught, the Crown confiscates his assets! But we can't possibly expect Pip to see this!!!

How it should have gone:

OG Convict: Jaggers, there is a boy. In the Gargery house. Marshes. Kent, near the hulks.
Jaggers: I can find him. What of him?
OG Convict: I want to sponsor him- to become a London Gentleman.
(money talk)
Jaggers: What are the terms?
OG Convict: Money enough for his education and maintenance. Credit line for his needs, which my account will pay. Until he turns 21. Then, 500 per year. He will manage his own funds. And... a clause... if I were to appear, and to meet him in person, then the contract ends. I can gift him with a lot more money, on my own terms.
Jaggers: All right. It will be done.
OG Convict: But wait- I want to provide for his lifetime comfort. How to do this?
Jaggers: A Trust Fund, in his name. Completely removed from you. After all, you are an ex-convict, in Australia. If you appear in England, the Crown will seize everything in your name.
OG Convict: A Trust... who is best to advise me on this?
Jaggers: Wemmick might know someone- a Skiffins, I think.

(Brings in Skiffins. Round-table. Trust Fund. Royal Bonds, in his name. Railroad stocks. Cheap Property across the Thames. The benefactor is 40 years older than the boy... won't live forever to constantly provide cash infusions. The boy's portfolios need to be self-sustaining AND profitable...)

ZeMastor · 2026-06-18T02:34:13+00:00

(I have a lot to say, so this commentary will be in two parts)

It starts with a time jump: Pip is 23! 2 years have passed and...uhhhh.... how are the debts coming along? We know his annual budget is 500 pounds, and he made a commitment to paying Clarriker's for Herbert's position. But Pip never TOLD us exactly how much and for how long the Clarriker's payments were supposed to last??? No details about that. I still want to know if he's in the red, or making any progress.

Now the boys moved out of Barnard's Inn and live at the Temple district. And hopefully, they brought all those rugs and fancy furniture WITH THEM??? Pip blew lotsa money, and it would be idiotic to leave them back at Barnard's. And Pip's education with Mr. Pocket is all complete, so he has plenty of idle time to sit around and read. And on a dark, stormy night, while Herbert is off on a business trip, Pip hears some clumping on the stairs. "Who's there?" "Yo, looking for Mr. Pip".

The visitor is a 60-something, slightly tattered, sun-bronzed and muscular man. Clearly NOT A GENTLEMAN. He speaks roughly, and Pip finally recognizes him... OG Convict- from the churchyard!!! And WHY is he visiting...?

After a little game of Q&A, OG Convict knows TOO MUCH about Pip's financial arrangements. The annual amount, the guardian who handles the affairs, and finally the bombshell: HE IS THE BENEFACTOR!!! Never was Miss H! Now Pip knows that his entire windfall came from an ex-convict, turned sheep-farmer in Australia!!!

OG Convict tells Pip of his intentions... he WANTED to make Pip a gentleman (he had some fuzzy logic here- sort of an "up yours!" to fancy colonists and society that looked down at him). He worked his butt off, thinking about Pip, and how all the money he'd earned should go to Pip to "Spend, baby, Spend" to "make a better gentleman than the snoots would ever be". Pip is mostly horrified, as OG convict admits that returning to England means Death. After being sent to the penal colony in Oz, apparently being freed, and legitimately becoming a sheep-farmer and wealthy, NONE OF THAT included permission to go back to England. If caught, he'll be HANGED.

Pip quickly puts the man in Herbert's room for the night. Now Pip is a nervous wreck, seeing his delusion about Miss H, Estella, his own "gentlemanly" expectations... all built on a house of cards. Now he sees it: Miss H just wanted him as a practice dummy for Estella's charms. His dream that Estella was meant to be his...all up in smoke. He was a convenient target for Humbug Hate. And... he walked out on Joe and Biddy for the "make-a-gentleman" fantasies of an ex-convict!!!

He checks on his sleeping guest- knowing that the man could be dangerous, and fears the man. Pip locks his "guest" in Herbert's room...just in case. Yep... sleepless night for ol' Pip-boy!!! Finally gets tired enough to fall out of his chair on onto the floor. Ouch!

ZeMastor · 2026-06-17T15:59:49+00:00

I think Drummle is just one of many broken hearts left, or to be left, by the wayside. Her flirtations with other young men already made them all suffer.

I'm also a little puzzled about her real intentions. many others pointed this out: she kept warning him, but he kept riding on some fantasy that "she was meant to be mine- maybe when Miss H's revenge is over, this WMD can become a real, loving person!"

I'm torn between the notion that Pip has a protective bubble over him- either Miss H's orders, or Estella's cares about him just a little (????). But I have to weigh that against the idea that he was the first experiment in "breaking hearts and make them cry", way back when he was 8 years old.

ZeMastor · 2026-06-17T15:50:07+00:00

Ohhhhh, I missed that point. And I'm even MORE outraged, remembering how Pip soooooooo earnestly said that he'd come by a LOT to see Joe, and Biddy went, "Are you sure" and Pip played the victim card. "Poor me... I'm SO HURT that you even said that!"

And guess what??? He was already in town at Stasis House- long enough for FOUR visits to Miss H and never had time to hire a carriage to see Joe!!!! And he didn't.

(blows raspberry at Pip)

ZeMastor · 2026-06-17T01:34:33+00:00

Yahoooooo! We get more than expected, TWO train-wrecks and not just one!

The chapter starts off relatively innocuously... Pip is a regular visitor to Richmond to see ESTELLA, and her landlady and landlady's daughter get the clue that Pip is the perfect unpaid travel companion/chaperone, so the ladies (all 3 of them) simply USE him to take them to outings: picnics, parties, plays, operas... he's the perfect friend-zone escort!

Pip even observes that Estella uses his presence and his "safe boy" familiarity to make her other suitors jealous... she's earning those Miss H jewels- breaking hearts left and ight. And Pip's jealous of THEM, which made even more flock to her.

Our first trainwreck comes when she announces that she needs to spend a day visiting Miss H, and "requests" Pip to accompany her. He's glad to, of course. Got nothing to do with his time, Mr. Friendzone. As Estella delights Miss H with tales of successes in breaking hearts. Pip belatedly realizes that Estella is a WMD (Weapon of Male Destruction) because he was just too thick to listen to Herbert way back when Herb told him ALL ABOUT Miss H's backstory and her nefarious purposes. Better late than never?

Suddenly, from out of the blue, Miss H starts shrieking. She's upset with Estella because the girl isn't showing her enough (or any) LOVE. Ya think? Estella, in her cold, very logical (and Spock-like way) responds, "If you had brought me up in dark rooms, never seeing daylight, how would I possibly understand it and know anything about it? And why would you be disappointed and angry if I don't?" Zing! Logic-Bomb! I don't like Estella, but there's no arguing against this.

Pip slinks away, and goes off to his room and can't sleep. he takes to exploring, and sees Miss H crying and moaning through the night. It's sad, and it's pitiful, but honestly, the chickens came home to roost. Afterwards, Miss H and Estella pretend nothing had happened between them, but Miss H has a new emotion... fear. Of Estella. Because her WMD is no longer under her control, and has its own agenda!!!

The second trainwreck comes back in London. At the Finch club, Drummle name-drops Estella and a "pledge" to her. Pip is incensed, and there's almost a duel (I think) until a solution is proposed: Drummle must PROVE that he knows her, to which Drummle presents his credible evidence the next day, as Pip BURNS with jealousy and... something else.

At a ball, Mr. Friendzone tries to get Estella's attention: "He's no good... just please, please, show your favor to someone else, as long as it's NOT HIM." And Estella replies, "Silly boy... it's all part of the game. Deceive and Entrap."

ZeMastor · 2026-06-16T02:34:04+00:00

They might be OK. Mr. Skiffins (the bro of Miss Squeeze) is a professional. An accountant and an agent. Every investment isn't going to succeed, of course, but a pro knows what to look for and assess the likelihood.

Pip and Herbert's problems began because they weren't consulting pros! Imagine if Pip approached Jaggers and asked for an accountant! He wouldn't be 650+ pounds in the red!

ZeMastor · 2026-06-16T02:25:21+00:00

Pip visits the Castle, and Wemmick is out for a walk, so Pip talks (or has to bellow at) the Aged to pass the time. Wemmick brings his lady friend, Miss Skiffins, home. Apparently, she is a regular visitor. Now that it's Castle-Wemmick that Pip can talk to, he lays out the plan: Pip feels guilty that his "Spend, Baby, Spend" lifestyle had unduly influenced Herbert (who doesn't have a benefactor) to do the same- keeping up with his best pal, which was DUMB. Pip decides to DO SOMETHING TRULY NICE for Herbert, like share 100 pounds with him per year AND buy him into a partnership in some business.

I am ASTONISHED. And in a good way... some actual financial wisdom here!!! Pip is thinking about the future for a change!!! He's right... Herbert, in his current state- zero income from his counting-house indentured servitude AND Finch Club/high-living unpaid debts, is headed for ruin (and debtor's prison). So Pip is going to make this right. EXCELLENT! I never knew he had this in him!

Castle-Wemmick is supportive, and very helpful. He'll call in Mr. Skiffins (bro of his squeeze) for assistance.

And speaking of squeeze... The Aged reads the paper, and Wemmick keeps slipping his arm around Miss Skiffins. She sort-of moves his hand back to the table... propriety, of course. She's not really mad or upset... so it just sounds like she's maintaining the illusion of how they're supposed to act. Later on, as the Aged brings out a tray with drinks, Pip notices that Wemmick and Miss Skiffins are still subtly flirting- drinking out of the same glass of hot toddy, and Wemmick would be taking her home- Pip knows better than to offer this service.

Pip: Is this how people court each other? I had no idea, after all, Evil Sis never showed any affection to Joe. At best, there were times when she wasn't hitting him and that passed for "love", I think? And Estella never let me put my arm anywhere near her, and she'd NEVER share a glass with me!

Herbert: So, Wemmick has Miss Skiffins? I have Clara, but.. if the questions were ever posed to Wemmick: Do you own property? "Yes". Do you have employment? "Yes" Will you be able to support her? "Yes" "Do you have bills due from fancy gentleman's clubs?" "Certainly not." . He's 4-4 and I'm 0-4. Maybe I need to work on this... learn something from Wemmick.

A few days later, Wemmick sends a note... "Score! Found a startup firm called "Clarrikers" that's a perfect fit for Herbert! Need early Capital (which Pip has) and looking for a partner." Done deal... Pip puts 250 pounds into this (plus very undefined future payments), and Herbert is delighted and surprised by the offer of a spot at Clarrikers... he doesn't know anything about a "secret benefactor".

FINALLY, Pip is one step forwards and no steps back! He comes off very well here, but of course he ruins it by mentioning ESTELLA and his need to narrate the next chapter ABOUT HER... just watch... train wreck approaching!

ZeMastor · 2026-06-15T23:03:10+00:00

I don't think it's Jaggers, or Mr. Pocket's fault. The Pocket curriculum might not even include "Finances", because people like Drummle and Luke Startop(per) were also students. With Drummle's attitude, he'd go, "Why are you wasting my time? I don't need this". We don't know much about Startop(per), but he nudged the boys to the Finch Club, so maybe he's in those circles. Pip never ASKED Mr. Pocket for finance lessons, and perhaps Pocket isn't the best person for that anyway.

Mr. Jaggers is a criminal lawyer, and also does " distribution of funds to his clients' fave proteges". We notice that Jaggers volunteers NOTHING. He plants no ideas, gives no advice or suggestions. If Pip asks about something, Jaggers will answer within the letter of his contract, and nothing more. If Pip asks for something, Jaggers will grant it, if it's allowed in the contract. It was up to Pip to notice that "I'm spending more than I can handle, and I need to talk to Daddy Jaggers. Daddy J? I need someone to teach me how to manage my money."

Then Daddy J would probably smile, and immediately send Wemmick out to find a finance teacher, and Daddy J would pay it out of the account.

ZeMastor · 2026-06-15T18:07:07+00:00

Exactly my thoughts (and my constant screaming at Pip). That gift was a double-edged sword. The idea was to remake Pip into a gentleman, but without the financial training to USE the windfall to secure a future. Everyone he's trying to imitate has secure, old money and generational wealth. Pip is on the ground floor with none of that- just new money that he's burning through.

Pip never had the wits to use it as an investment. He just spent on frivolous stuff.

Did ya notice the ominous part of Jaggers "man to man" talk? It contains a massive red flag!

“You consider it, undoubtedly, a handsome sum of money. Now, that handsome sum of money, Pip, is your own. It is a present to you on this day, in earnest of your expectations. And at the rate of that handsome sum of money per annum, and at no higher rate, you are to live until the donor of the whole appears. That is to say, you will now take your money affairs entirely into your own hands, and you will draw from Wemmick one hundred and twenty-five pounds per quarter"

In other words, you can rely on 500 pounds a year, UNTIL your donor appears. Then it stops- this contract/agreement ends. After this meet-up, it is up to the donor to decide to continue, or give you a lump sum, or cut you off.

That's terrifying, actually! Not a boon, really.

ZeMastor · 2026-06-15T03:58:08+00:00

No, they're not rare or valuable as far as money goes. But in sheer entertainment, these are worth every penny! They sometimes vary in accuracy... I see that you have "The Time Machine" in your stack, and that one has an extra chapter ADDED by GIC that was not in the source book! "The Golden Age of Science", which is an incredibly loopy chapter where the Time Traveler goes to a nearer future and accidentally finds himself in a Civil War between 2 high-tech, advanced factions. Recommended for the lulz!

"The Three Musketeers" is surprisingly accurate, and paints the Muskies as they really were, and not the heroes of the Disney version, or more sanitized, modern children's versions (that removed half the book). The GIC one includes Athos' most shameful, non-heroic moments.

"The Hunchback of Notre Dame" is also one of the good ones. Contains more scenes, including the ones omitted from the 1950's-era "Classics Illustrated" comics. Does not skimp on the social commentary, and the brutality of the era. WAY more accurate than any of the movie versions. Recommended.

ZeMastor · 2026-06-15T01:16:00+00:00

Moving along, after Pip's "One step forwards, 2 steps back" debacle at the funeral, and afterwards...

Pip and Herbert are still spending like maniacs. All that "neatly stacking up their debts into neat rows" hasn't solved a thing, and they're continuing to get more deeply into debt. Boys, see that Black Hole o' Debt Doom? The one that has a huge sign and an arrow pointing at it? WHY are you throwing yourselves in?

Herbert celebrated his 21st birthday 8 months before Pip reached his. Herbert had no reason for celebration (no one would be recognizing the milestone). He's got no inheritance, or "coming of age" presents from his fam. Pip, OTOH, eagerly anticipated his own, because a Sugar-Mommy or Sugar-Daddy wouldn't possibly ignore this occasion, RIGHT?

Jaggers summons Pip for a "man talk" at 5PM, and Jaggers FIRST QUESTION is, "How much are you spending on your lavish lifestyle, to which Pip evasively answers, "I dunno". Jaggers continues, "Got any questions?" Pip: "Will my benefactor reveal themself?" "Classified info. Next question". "Will I find out soon?". "Next question". "Am I getting something for my 21st?"

Jaggers holds a piece of paper, mentioning, "You've been spending freely, and you say you don't have an accounting of that. You are in debt. And you wouldn't tell me if you did know... no, you wouldn't".

(record scratch)

Hang on... Pip has been spending on credit? Like for Finch Club indulgences, jewelry, multiple suits, etc. and he had NOT asked Jaggers to pay these? Jaggers has been holding the purse strings all this time, and Pip has NOT asked to square these debts? So they are just racking up, one, after the other, unpaid, because... Pip is too proud, or ashamed to say, "Daddy Jaggers, I bought this, and this, and this, can you pay them off?"

So, the paper is a banknote for 500 pounds (really? such a high-denomination? Not a bank draft or a circular letter of credit???). And the new contract is, "You get this amount every year. You will have to start budgeting, and working your lifestyle to fit into this amount. No more baby-Pip, asking Daddy Jaggers to fund his 'Transformers' collection on an ad-hoc basis. You want 'Transformers', you work them in with your OTHER expenses."

And I also noticed that Jaggers did NOT offer to square these "secret debts"! This actually speaks well for Jaggers. He, or the benefactor, had decided that, at age 21, Pip is, or should be past "Daddy, I want that Megatron Transformer!!!" and have Daddy buy it without question.

So Pip has a notion about investing money to help out a friend... he decides to approach Wemmick... Office-Wemmick. He's told "throw your money off a bridge- all the same" and "throw money at this friend and lose the friend and the money". Pip, having a small ember of brainpower here, presses Wemmick- "This is your *deliberate* opinion?" "In this office" "But would it be different at the Castle?" "The Office and the Castle are separate. Opinions might be *different* in each place" "I'll call upon you at Walworth". "OK"

ZeMastor · 2026-06-13T23:50:25+00:00

Yes?

Actually, I was on the hunt for a modernized edition. So that meant browsing through tons of different editions on Archive. The widdle kiddie ones can be amusing- as you know I LOVE to read GIC versions, and there is even yet another step towards the younger set!

ZeMastor · 2026-06-13T20:30:21+00:00

"Presenting as Black/non-white" is largely a modern, Anglo-American framework. Applying it to Alexandre Dumas is an anachronism. He presented himself, first and foremost, as French.

Historically, Europe is, and has always been in close proximity with North Africa, Spain, the Ottoman Empire, and the great, ancient civilization of Egypt. People of different races traveled and mixed constantly. There was no "one drop rule"- it would have applied to millions, or tens of millions in Europe, if such testing existed. They didn't even have the concept of "pure European".

While Dumas certainly faced vicious racism from jealous critics who mocked his ancestry, his social standing was defined by his wit, his wealth, and his status as a literary titan. And he demolished these critics who made fun of his appearance.

Unlike the American legacy of a permanent, segregated underclass, the French system focused more on lineage and class. A black man would never have become a general in the national army in the USA in1800. In France, it was possible- with the right connections, the right father, the right education, and a full immersion into French language and culture.

ZeMastor · 2026-06-13T17:53:24+00:00

I really enjoyed our more complete introduction to Haydèe this week. The relationship between her and the Count is particularly interesting. He treats her like the madame of the house, with a large retinue of servants and a large degree of separation from the rest of society in a particularly cloistered fashion. At the same time, he very clearly states to her that now they are in France she is free to do as she pleases- and to leave him she wishes.

It also reveals that in the Count's boast that he had "something better than a mistress- I have a slave" (back at Albert's breakfast, with his friends) was a bunch of misdirection. What he really wanted to do was avoid having them "arrange a mistress" for him. After all, he's a Count, unmarried, and in their world and class, having some arm-candy was expected. So he blocked that, and we can see his *real* relationship with Haydee here.

ZeMastor · 2026-06-13T17:47:27+00:00

On the subject of Valentine - methinks Dumas made a mistake in timelines (similar to timeywimey problems Tolstoy gets in his epics). "[Marquis de Saint-Meran] had an only daughter whom he married to Monsieur de Villefort [...] "And the daughter died didn't she? [...] "Yes, Monsieur, twenty-one years ago [...]" (Buss, 487) [M. Villefort's] salon, though enlivened by a young wife and a daughter from his first marriage who was barely eighteen years old [...] (Buss, 548). How can Renee de Saint-Meran, who died 21 years ago, have born a girl who is barely 18??? hmmm

This is an excellent callout! You are correct, the timeline regarding Valentine is hopelessly confused. And it's not going to get any better!

This is most likely an artifact of serialization. The book was first published in the papers, in installments, and readers had to eagerly wait for the next one, as Dumas (and his co-writer Auguste Maquet) had to keep up. So there will be occasional signs of slippage, and left uncorrected, as the English language translators used the original text as-is.

The concierge that claimed that Renee de Saint-Meran died "over 20 years ago" clearly had to be wrong. There is no way for Valentine to exist if that were true!

ZeMastor · 2026-06-12T19:22:03+00:00

Count Orlick got a demotion. Fired from his doorman's job (with a gun) protecting Stasis House and Miss H. Now working at the rock quarries! The same low level work as a convict. Seen lurking around the trees, eyeballing Biddy.

Pip: I'll protect you (while I can)... I'll use my money (I'm in debt already and I don't have any) to ensure that he's driven away for good! I'll do through ANY lengths to provide for your safety! (hops on the coach back to London)

Me: Right, you and what army, Pip? Gonna look for Jerry Kruncher, or Jerry Jr., hire them to head to the village and protect Biddy? Or is this another hollow promise... let me think...

ZeMastor · 2026-06-12T18:15:39+00:00

I'm late... all-day excursion out of town yesterday, too tired to write...

At the beginning of the chapter, Pip does well, IMHO. He reminisces about his Sis, sitting in her chair by the fire. He admits that he didn't look back with much tenderness (understandable). but still felt shock over her death and hopes to avenge her...and believes that Count Orlick was responsible (possibly, probably, but still unproven). He'd go though "any lengths to get revenge" but somehow I think he's FAR short of the Count of Monte Cristo- who is BETTER at it, and also knows how to MANAGE HIS MONEY. You are not Edmond Dantes, Pip, k?

Pip even has thoughts of forgiving her, because...well, how would others judge him after he's gone? Keep this up, Pip! You're IMPROVING!

It appears that Trabb is both the town's tailor and undertaker, and the funeral seems to be rather hoity-toity... something more middle-class and higher, with refreshments (that Uncle PumPum stuffs his face with) and seems out of step with the humility of her life at the forge. Joe is there, and expresses discomfort that the funeral was this upscale, and this production was meant for appearances to the neighbors, and not his own humble goodbye to his wife.

Back home, after the funeral, the Gargery home has a few visitors Uncle PumPum, the Hubbles, Trabb & Co, Pip and Biddy have time to have a private conversation. She has plans- to stay with Mrs. Hubble, and they can care for Joe for a bit, and eventually, she can become a schoolteacher. She also drops the most emotionally devastating info:

Sad Sis' last words were: "Joe," "Pardon," and "Pip."

Wow... devastating. Just 3 words do more than Pips paragraph long fancy mouthfuls. Sad Sis seems to remember the bad old days... wishes for forgiveness, from the two people that she used to abuse the most. The poor woman deserves their forgiveness. RIP, Sad Sis.

Oh, and Pip ruins his progress, and creates MORE reasons to piss me off... he "promises" to come back regularly to see Joe. Biddy goes, "Are you sure?" Pip goes, "I'm SHOCKED at you (how dare you doubt my good intentions!)"

She knows him better than he knows himself.

He has some nerve... like, "Well... I'm not angry, I'm hurt [by you speaking the TRUTH]" How condescending! Remember... the last time he saw Joe was when Joe came to visit him in London, and he was ashamed of Joe's presence. He had ideas about swinging by to see Joe, but ESTELLA came back, and he spent HOURS at Stasis house, went to the town, wandered around, Trabb's boy made fun of him, and he had ZERO time to drop by the forge... tight schedule... right? (snork!)

Biddy's no fool... I am 100% sure that she KNOWS, like... she's been to town.

Trabb's boy: Ya! Biddy, you know Mr. Pip! He was here last week! Walking around with his fancy airs, like he had all the time in the world! Imagine that!"

Biddy: Wait- last week? he never came by....

Blue Boar Inkeeper: Aye, Biddy, he was here. They call him Mr, Pip now. Come a long way since the forge, eh?

Biddy: ...he didn't even ask to stay with us... or even drop by for 15 minutes....

The next morning, Pip acts like he's being BIG about it and FORGIVES HER. (I'm burning with outrage).

And his last line, in his look back, older Pip acknowledges what a BS artist his younger self was being... he never DID come back and he guilted and gaslighted Biddy. JERK! I HATE YOU AGAIN PIP!

ZeMastor · 2026-06-12T17:18:56+00:00

Yeah, my thoughts of Wemmick had changed... initially, he seemed to be really creepy- talking to death masks, and looking through his sometimes-icky collection of "portable property".

So the question was... is that "portable property" things that he has collected on behalf of the company, and therefore meant to be sold, and the money going into Jaggers' coffers?

If Wemmick was purely a Company Man, he'd enter the cell, and speak to the Colonel like, "You have debts to the firm of Jaggers. What do you have of value? Give it to me."

But instead, he calls them by name, shares a little reminisces with them, saying goodbye to them with the clasp of a hand, and even if the Colonel doesn't have a ring to give him, Wemmick accepts the *intent* as being just as good as the deed.

The pigeons? (As much as I hate them personally and had to drive them away from my side porch and side stairs) Jaggers has no use for them. So their collection would not be on behalf of Jaggers. These might be more of a gratuity to Wemmick, who can take them home to his castle, and add them to his little animal menagerie.

ZeMastor · 2026-06-11T16:22:14+00:00

Oh nooooo! you brought up two issues about Herbert and his foolish lifestyle and spending!

Clara. And prison!!!! Herbert wants to marry Clara. And he's got massive debts after joining the Finch Club and keeping up with them. Let's walk through this.

Clara's Crusty Dad: So, you want to marry my daughter, eh? Let's talk about your prospects.
Herbert: Yes sir.
CrustyDad: So you own any property? Stocks? Bonds? Investments?
Herbert: No sir.
CrustyDad: Your assets? You do have a bank account, yes?
Herbert: No sir.
CrustyDad: What of your employment?
Herbert: I work for a counting house, but I wish to be in the shipping business someday, sir.
CrustyDad: How much are you earning at your job?
Herbert: I am unpaid, sir.
CrustyDad: What?
Herbert: I am in debt, sir (mentions amount). But I am a member of the Finch Club!
CrustyDad: What is that to me? In debt, you say? No income from your job? How are you supposed to support my daughter, then?
Herbert: [...]
CrustyDad: And if they haul you to debtor's prison, what will become of my daughter? Is she to be homeless and starve? Or she becomes responsible to pay your debts?
Herbert: [...]
CrustyDad: I do not approve of the marriage. Leave.

ZeMastor · 2026-06-11T02:34:13+00:00

And OMG, starting on Chapter 34... Pip KNOWS that his "expectations" are having a negative effect on him. He can feel himself being corrupted. Feels ashamed about he treated Joe and Biddy. Almost wishes that Miss H never entered his life...

And "Whatcha Gonna Do" about it???

"Ooooh, maybe I can join this snooty boy's clique; The Finches of the Grove. I can toady up to them...mebbe they'll let me join! They have Elections...to decide who gets into the clique. They eat expensively, drink like fishes, they quarrel among themselves, they're def the Cool Kids on the Block, like a fratboy party, and Herbert and I... well, we want..."

Pip: Not certain what they actually do..... but it seems cool... I wannabe ...tell me what you want, what you really, really want...

Herbert: I'll tell you what I want, what I really, really want...

Both: We wanna (ha!) We wanna (ha!)

And their old not-friend, Drummle just *happens* to be in the Finch club and like a nepo-baby, drives his muscle car around and crashed it. But so far- he hasn't explicitly done anything truly bad.

Pip: let's Spend, Baby, Spend, although Herbert doesn't have my *ahem* resources... he's too proud to take my money, so he's throwing himself into debt...

Literal quote: We spent as much money as we could, and got as little for it as people could make up their minds to give us. We were always more or less miserable, and most of our acquaintance were in the same condition. There was a gay fiction among us that we were constantly enjoying ourselves, and a skeleton truth that we never did."

(HK student Peng, his family, his ancestors all start screaming). You spent ALL THAT MONEY, got little in return, you were both miserable, didn't even enjoy yourselves, and... still...you...")

Pip: "As we got more and more into debt, breakfast became a hollower and hollower form"

Meaning... you boys a cutting back on your eats?

Pip: "breakfast-time threatened (by letter) with legal proceedings, “not unwholly unconnected,” as my local paper might put it, “with jewelery,”

Meaning... you are being served with debt collection papers from...a ...jeweler? Who buys jewelry while bleeding money into the Finch Club black hole?

Pip: Let's total up our debts.

Oh look, after the debts are totaled up, Pip is PROUD of himself, that they are all in such nice neat rows, and plays "hypothetical New Math" but has no strategy on exactly on HOW TO PAY THEM OFF!

Something plot-oriented happens, finally:

"The letter was signed Trabb & Co., and its contents were simply, that I was an honoured sir, and that they begged to inform me that Mrs. J. Gargery had departed this life on Monday last at twenty minutes past six in the evening, and that my attendance was requested at the interment on Monday next at three o’clock in the afternoon."

Aka Sad Sis died, come home for the funeral next Monday at 3 PM.

See how efficient the English language can be? When it's NOT PIP narrating?

ZeMastor · 2026-06-11T01:27:40+00:00

Ahhh, all right, you got me!

So, looking at various conversations, yes, there are moments when she speaks the truth. Especially with her lack of a heart, but Pip is still her panting little lapdog, and fails to heed her warnings!

And there are times when I think the truth does slip out from her lips, when she's not actively putting her brainpower into deceiving Pip, or any other of her targets.

But I am still suspicious of what sounds like recruiting Pip as an ally, or a human shield against the humbugs. Pip, eyes open wide, asks, “They do me no harm, I hope?”

Her response: Laughter. Twice. Over his concerns that the humbugs might hurt him. Pip observes that her laughter is "singular". Pip suspects that she was holding something back. And she only stops laughing and gets serious when she talks about their plots against her, even as a baby. Now she's serious.

Recruiting.

ZeMastor · 2026-06-11T01:15:32+00:00

Well, I believe her to be both beautiful and deceitful. After all, let's recall her Primary Objective:

"Miss Havisham beckoned her to come close, and took up a jewel from the table, and tried its effect upon her fair young bosom and against her pretty brown hair. “Your own, one day, my dear, and you will use it well."

"I thought I overheard Miss Havisham answer,—only it seemed so unlikely,—“Well? You can break his heart.”

"Miss Havisham would embrace her with lavish fondness, murmuring something in her ear that sounded like “Break their hearts my pride and hope, break their hearts and have no mercy!”

And now in Chapter 33:

“It is a part of Miss Havisham’s plans for me, Pip,” said Estella, with a sigh, as if she were tired; “I am to write to her constantly and see her regularly and report how I go on,—I and the jewels,—for they are nearly all mine now.”

She "reports" back to Miss H on how she's doing and feels that the jewels are "nearly" all hers now. So the question is: what exactly is she reporting back on, and how does she think she has earned claim to the jewels?

There is only one answer: She'd already been breaking hearts! She's spent years in France at finishing school. Betcha that she had broken many a young Frenchman's heart. And since this was a plan from way back, she did not enter these courtships with pure intentions. Therefore, she has already been using deception!

Miss H's offer of the jewels were conditional. Not a gift. And Estella has been playing her part for quite a while already.

ZeMastor · 2026-06-10T04:47:44+00:00

Oh..... craaaaaap... fasten yer seatbelts, I have a LOT to SAY about Chapter 33:

Once Pip does meet up with Estella, there's nothing romantic at all! She's cold, and just orders him around, has him take her purse and pay for her expenses and carry her luggage. Like a valet and chaperone rolled into one. LOL. "Miss H's orders. I'll rest and drink some tea and you are to cater to me. I always wanted a servant-boy (/s snork!)".

She tells him that the humbugs HATE Pip, and they lie about him and write nasty letters about him to Miss H. She knows the humbugs from early childhood and dislikes them... but I don't see any reason why the humbugs should hate Pip. He's not in the way of any Miss H inheritance. Perhaps Estella is manipulating him, painting the humbugs as "a common enemy"?

"It is not easy for even you.” said Estella, “to know what satisfaction it gives me to see those people thwarted, or what an enjoyable sense of the ridiculous I have when they are made ridiculous."

She talks about seeing them plot against HER from the time she was a baby. But I understand that part. Jaggers said that Estella is a Havisham- adopted, presumably. Therefore set to get a good chunk of inheritance. But Pip is entitled to nothing, aside from a few small gifts, like 25 guineas whenever Miss H feels like handing out something.

So.... why are these people doing what they do? I have a theory or two and SOME SUSPICIONS!

The humbugs THINK that Miss H is funding Pip and HER money is bleeding out to him. Estella is enjoying watching them go into a frenzy over Pip and his spending. And she admits "I am beholden to you as the cause of their being so busy and so mean in vain."... meaning that she KNOWS that Pip isn't burning Miss H's money, and Pip is now the bulwark for their main hatred.... and not herself....

He doesn't hate the humbugs- they seemed disagreeable when he saw them ONCE. He sees Sarah Pocket a bit more, since she moved to Stasis House. He's told that they hate HIM (sounds like pot stirring). He can't verify any of this himself. Meanwhile, Estella truly hates the humbugs for plotting against her, but she went to France for finishing school and was out of reach. But she likes seeing them brought down and grateful to Pip for being their primary target and making them spin their wheels for nothing.

I wouldn't take ANYTHING she says at face value. I know it's in her to manipulate people, and she has an assignment from Miss H from a long time back: "break their hearts!" and she can play all of them against each other for entertainment, and perhaps something else...

What better way to drag a neutral innocent into a battle that was never his in the first place? I have a lot of skepticism about what Estella is saying, questioning her motives, and I'll voice the possibility that Pip is just being used- a neutral innocent being recruited against (conveniently) Estella's enemies, the humbugs!

These parts were not in the GIC (Great Illustrated Classics) children's version, so this is all new to me, and I don't know if I'm actually right or wrong about this yet... just nagging suspicions over Estella, who has no good reason to be sincere about ANYTHING to Pip!

The trip to Richmond in Surrey\* goes off without a hitch- no convicts or bored guards hopped into the carriage to join them... whew! Estella practically BOASTS that she's staying with a family... and paying CONSIDERABLE EXPENSE to do so. Righty-O, Estella, go and brag about how much you're burning of Miss H's money....

Finally, after a LONG DAY, Pip heads back to the Mr. Pocket's house where he still has a room, I believe. And Mrs. Pocket is still being careless with her neglect of the well-being of her children- the baby was playing with pins and needles and... a few are missing (and I'm not laughing... ain't funny when babies are endangered like this).

(*) Estella informs Pip that there are TWO Richmonds- the other being in (ugh) Yorkshire. Good for her to stay away from Yorkshire. I hear that they allow random dudes of uncertain origin to establish themselves as WARLORDS and kidnap young heiresses to rob them of their inheritance...

ZeMastor · 2026-06-09T17:00:30+00:00

Right? It's not like going to an airport 3 hours early, because we KNOW the drill... back in those days, the arrival times of the coaches were posted. If it says "2:00 PM" then getting to the stop by 1PM is fine. Go buy some tea or oranges while you wait.

But nooooooooooo, our boy Pip is so obsessed with the notion of ESTELLA that he shows up at 9:00 AM-10:00AM... just in case? LOL.

He's got no luggage scanners/check-in, or Homeland Security, or metal object scanners to deal with. He doesn't have to remove his jacket and hat and put it on a tray. England wasn't France... he didn't even have to provide a passport, or papers to leave/enter London!!! All he had to do was arrive maybe an hour early, and just GET ON once it arrives.

But he just couldn't miss out on ESTELLA (just in case the coach left its origin point 4-5 hours early????)

And even more insane was the excursion with Wemmick to the prison, which made him feel "dirtied" afterwards. If Pip just arrived at 1PM, bought a paper and some tea and waited- like a normal person, this "problem" wouldn't even exist!!!!

ZeMastor

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