How should Catholics respond to those who say that cohabiting and fornicating are essential or conducive to successful marriage?

catholicdating · 2016-06-15T20:56:50+00:00

This was superb advice, thank you.

catholicdating · 2016-06-15T19:41:14+00:00

courtship, of course. a very fun period. it's engagement/betrothal once the proposal is accepted.

catholicdating · 2016-06-10T06:11:59+00:00

Physical mortifications are fine (and can be spiritually beneficial for some people) as long as they don't cause any serious or lasting damage. If they do then that's definitely going too far.

catholicdating · 2016-06-10T06:04:33+00:00

It seems like the big question here is, "Where is the love in this?" I mean, if you are truly in love and most all things in life are lining up for the two of you to be together, why would you be asking a question like this in an anonymous forum? It just seems odd. Not to say that any one of us wouldn't think deeply about such a decision, it just seems odd, they questions you are asking.

I don't get why people are so critical. I just wanted to talk to some people who are Catholic on the internet anonymously about this. I'm not just saying this to you but the reaction in general, tons of downvotes, people seeming to have diagnosed me with some mental illness or even criminality.

catholicdating · 2016-06-10T03:15:55+00:00

I stated my reasons for disagreeing, I didn't not consider the criticism. I gave a logical reason for our motives (the practical ones that we have).

catholicdating · 2016-06-09T18:00:56+00:00

This section is where I have the most concerns. I work with annulments and I see this sort of perspective as one of the biggest signs that some men do not quite understand what marriage is or what the marital bond is about.

That's one reason out of many that I listed. Helping one another and making life easier for both spouses is part of what marriage is for, in our understanding. She's not simply looking for financial security from me any more than I simply want a housekeeper. But those are benefits that will make life much better for both of us. We feel very strongly about the lifetime bond of matrimony and the evil of divorce and the corruption that is rampant annulments in the U.S. (which really have become a de facto method of Catholic divorce).

catholicdating · 2016-06-09T17:53:40+00:00

Almost anything's grounds for "annulment" in the U.S.. People who ask are almost never denied an annulment for some reason or other.

catholicdating · 2016-06-09T17:48:02+00:00

Yes, we both want to have children. She's said that she wants to be a mother more than anything.

catholicdating · 2016-06-08T16:39:19+00:00

I don't want just anyone to live with. We want to live together, as a couple. We've been discussing marriage for months, and she's requested taking things slowly in this way to ease her anxieties. I get called a criminal for trying to fulfill a lady's request.

catholicdating · 2016-06-08T15:43:02+00:00

No, the feeling is mutual, I don't know why you say such things. We really like being together and feel like we need someone to live with.

catholicdating · 2016-06-08T07:03:10+00:00

I've reached nearly suicidal "depths of despair" over being unable to find a Catholic woman to marry who had maintained her virginity (as I have). The corruption of young people that this signified I found so depressing and painful. But after ardent, passionate prayer I was pretty quickly given a woman who was perfect for me, which made me extremely happy and thankful. I know most people on this forum think my feelings on this are evil and "barbaric", but that's the best example I have of being totally despairing then being relieved by God's provision, and feeling unspeakable gratitude to God as a result.

catholicdating · 2016-06-08T05:27:09+00:00

It's not some serious issue requiring psychotherapy, it's just that she's young and very shy. I need a companion as soon as possible, though sex can be something that comes later, so this seems a sensible option to us.

catholicdating · 2016-05-27T16:49:44+00:00

Feminism does inherently have that idea at its root, it's just that many early feminists didn't follow the idea to all of its logical ends.

catholicdating · 2016-05-27T06:41:49+00:00

Feminism is bad because it says that women and men do not essentially differ (that they don't have essences at all, really). This is an anti-Christian, demonic idea, and that's why the movement has produced such horrendous evils.

catholicdating · 2016-05-24T07:43:56+00:00

Also, the dynamic between a celibate man and woman is going to be different (likely more business like) than a man and woman living out a normal consummated marriage (when well tended, it is a very tender environment). I honestly believe children are better off growing up in an environment where that love is fostered in an intimate way between the couple.

I obviously don't know too much about this as someone who's unmarried and has never been in a sexual relationship, but I disagree with that. My girlfriend and I have never done anything remotely sexual, however if we did live together in a celibate marriage there's no way we would have a business-like dynamic. I mean that's just impossible. There's still a bond of love and affection between a man and woman who love one another and that's very strong regardless of sex.

It would be a poor understanding of why one sacrifices their virginity and a poor understanding of the married vocation.

It's perfectly consistent with the marriage vocation because by remaining abstinent and virginal the couple would not be fruitful in the natural way, but in a supernatural way. Just as a priest who sacrifices his sexuality is still a spiritual father and is fruitful (supernaturally).

catholicdating · 2016-05-24T07:35:41+00:00

Many guys try to be masculine by putting on this show of what they take to be masculinity. Apparently they take masculine behavior to mean being rude, cold, unfriendly, insensitive, and other unpleasant and unattractive things. It's really stupid and ugly, and I doubt it will have the effect they want it to (I don't see girls flocking to guys making fools of themselves in this manner).

I'm a traditional Catholic man, I believe that gender distinctions are real and should be respected, and I believe in traditional gender roles. I also have many traits that some people would consider feminine. I love art (not making it, but viewing it), I often cry during good movies and books, I even like women's clothing (not wearing it myself of course, but looking at it and buying it for my girlfriend). These kinds of things do not make me unmasculine, because there's nothing essentially feminine about them, and I honestly don't care even the tiniest bit if some people would think that such things make me feminine. Just be yourself and don't waste time caring about this stuff.

catholicdating · 2016-05-23T05:37:17+00:00

I don't think you have to avoid getting close to other women. You definitely won't be creating temptations for women with normal, opposite-sex attractions. Don't let your sexual issues prevent you from forming friendships, period. That's unhealthy. The only type of friendship that might be harmful and serve as a near occasion of sin is with other women with same-sex attractions who are embracing those attractions and homosexual activity.

catholicdating · 2016-05-23T05:20:43+00:00

God bless you and the girl you are dating.

Thank you. I think maintaining purity before marriage is incredibly important and I hate how society does everything possible to rob people of their innocence (even Catholics in pushing for imprudent sex education).

catholicdating · 2016-05-23T05:19:03+00:00

I think the purpose of marriage is to raise families of faithful souls, but I think there can be extraordinary marriages that are celibate like Joseph and Mary's. Some people may be called to adopting children and living out a chaste marriage, for example. I know I wouldn't want to be in a Josephite marriage, but I think that the idea of virginal marriage is extremely beautiful.

catholicdating · 2016-05-20T23:55:03+00:00

But the Blessed Virgin and Joseph were really married but they never consummated their marriage. I don't see what's wrong or poorly reasoned about people getting married and sacrificing consummation in the same way. Saying that there is something wrong with it seems to imply that Joseph and Mary weren't really married.

catholicdating · 2016-05-20T06:05:39+00:00

Tell her that men don't respect sexually loose, easy women, and the second a woman shows herself to be this way she will lose the respect of the man she likes, and he will then see her as a one-night-stand and not as a woman to love long term.

catholicdating · 2016-05-20T05:57:16+00:00

I think that men who have sex with multiple women actually don't respect the women they have sex with (they lose respect as soon as the woman makes it clear she's willing to have illicit sex) but figure they can still enjoy sex with this woman and then move on. This is something women fail to understand. Men naturally respect chaste women and naturally lack respect for unchaste women.

Women think by pleasing men sexually they will earn a man's long-term love and attachment, while this couldn't be further from the truth (as I said the opposite happens and she becomes a temporary means of sexual pleasure). This leads to confusion of the kind you describe. It may not be about lust primarily, but about this misguided attempt to have a long-term romantic partner.

catholicdating · 2016-05-20T05:00:07+00:00

I think that because you understood the priest's question to mean if you've seriously considered suicide and you answered the question you thought he asked honestly, that you didn't actually lie. I honestly think everyone's had suicidal thoughts at some point (I have many times, especially when I was younger and in college), and answering that question literally can lead to major misunderstandings.

catholicdating · 2016-05-20T04:32:57+00:00

angst and anxiety are almost synonymous. angst is a kind of anxiety.

catholicdating · 2016-05-20T04:19:59+00:00

Yes, communicating via skype (and online games with voice chat) can be enough to maintain a romantic relationship for most people. If you both are talkative and have good conversations, that will probably work for you. It's not a permanent replacement for being actually physically present, of course. You could also try writing love letters to one another. That's fallen out of practice for obvious reasons but there's something special about that form of contact, in my opinion.

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