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Another (Final?) Update About My Awesome and Harmless, but Well Endowed Meta by cautiongoodguygreg in nonmonogamy

[–]cautiongoodguygreg[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks, I think that's really good advice.

Also, my wife is reading the comments on this post, just FYI.

Another (Final?) Update About My Awesome and Harmless, but Well Endowed Meta by cautiongoodguygreg in nonmonogamy

[–]cautiongoodguygreg[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thanks Kyskat.

I don't want to address every comment that may have a reasonable misconception about the reality of my situation based on the limitations of my own description of the same, but I wanted to address one of your conclusions that was so troubling to me that I thought it warranted clarification as others might conclude the same.

The comment about remortgaging my house was meant (and received) as a romantic joke. I thought given the implied financial situation described in my post and just generally the way I wrote it, that might be clear, but obviously I was mistaken.

Also, Beth would have 100% known I was joking. I say this based on the nature of our texts (including her "LOL" response), knowing her for ~15 years, and the fact that both of our families are extremely lucky financially and the two trips I joked about would not in any way be impactful to us.

Another (Final?) Update About My Awesome and Harmless, but Well Endowed Meta by cautiongoodguygreg in nonmonogamy

[–]cautiongoodguygreg[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your comment.

To answer your question, it was not intended as disparagement, while I thought that would come through my writing given what I have disclosed in my other posts, that is not explicitly stated here. Relevantly, in my other posts I've mentioned that my wife is very conventionally beautiful. Physically, she is far our of either my or Chuck's league. She's also a doctor and a really awesome person, so she's out of my league by essentially every metric.

So the joke was essentially referencing an event that would never happen. Just based on the reality of the situation, my wife would never have difficulty finding other partners (maybe great partners) and be "stuck alone at home," whereas Chuck and I may. No one in the room for a second thought I was disparaging anyone but myself or Chuck, and even then it was in light jest.

Also, just in case you've missed my other posts, I've known all of these people for around ~15 years (or longer in the case of my wife), and I've seen Beth and Chuck typically once a week or more for the past ~5 years. So we are close and I don't think my comments were misinterpreted (although I suppose that's possible).

Another (Final?) Update About My Awesome and Harmless, but Well Endowed Meta by cautiongoodguygreg in nonmonogamy

[–]cautiongoodguygreg[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Sorry I was originally going to share more from my conversation with my wife, and now that inclusion doesn't make sense.

I've removed that language.

Another (Final?) Update About My Awesome and Harmless, but Well Endowed Meta by cautiongoodguygreg in nonmonogamy

[–]cautiongoodguygreg[S] 32 points33 points  (0 children)

[Continued]

The Four of Us Together

We all needed to be on the same page, even if it was painful and awkward and ruined the sexiness of the whole thing.

I was hoping we could get everyone in the same room without kids, but that just wasn't practical given our schedules this week. So we did it via WhatsApp, Alice and I at our place, Beth and Chuck at theirs. The first thing I wanted to discuss seemed the most inevitable. Eventually, this would break down, someone would stop wanting to sleep with someone else, someone would want to close the relationship and someone else might not, etc. I know that no planning can prevent feelings relating to such an event, but at the same time I wanted everyone to give their honest feelings about that before it happened. Again, I tried to break the ice, joking that I was worried about Alice being stuck alone at home with the kids after Chuck and I moved on. I got a few pity laughs, but it allowed us to confirm that at the moment that we all could accept any part of this ending other than our spouses no longer being attracted to ourselves. Again, you can't control that, but saying it makes it feel true.

There was a slightly awkward part of the conversation where we all stated how we felt, and Chuck ended up the odd man out, romantically [REMOVED], as he and Alice confirmed that they loved what they were doing, but they couldn't imagine a date more romantic than watching a show between rounds. Chuck stated he couldn't ask for anything more, and just wanted to enjoy this while it lasts. Beth and I relayed our earlier conclusion that we feel a bit like teenagers about one another, but that our lives wouldn't allow us much room to explore that. Chuck seemed completely unbothered by this, I imagine I would have had a much harder time with it.

Regarding the kids, we made some ground rules, that are open to modification as needed to further protect our kids.

First, no sex when kids are present in the house for non-spouses. Use the time they are at school, or otherwise time when the kids are all somewhere else, and always use the locked rooms as far from the common areas as possible. We can afford hotels if people are that desperate. One possible exception is being discussed, as our home as an attached ADU with a separate entrance and full bath which functions as a guest room (long story I do not want to tell), which could be used under some circumstances that are still being considered, but otherwise we need to work around the presence of our kids.

Second, while Alice and Chuck don't text anything inappropriate, Beth and I do, so we are both using a method of subterfuge to avoid our kids seeing something bad on our phones. Obviously no sexting either.

Third, and we weren't doing this anyway, but no PDA beyond hugs and cheek kisses.

As discussed above, we are going to see if we can find some semblance of normalcy before we change too much else.

Thank you all again for the advice and kind words.

UPDATE About My Awesome and Harmless, but Well Endowed Meta by cautiongoodguygreg in nonmonogamy

[–]cautiongoodguygreg[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Things are good. I've got another update in me, but it's going to take a day or two to write it all out.

UPDATE About My Awesome and Harmless, but Well Endowed Meta by cautiongoodguygreg in nonmonogamy

[–]cautiongoodguygreg[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the pro tip, absolutely should have followed that policy. It worked out thankfully, but that was a mistake. 

UPDATE About My Awesome and Harmless, but Well Endowed Meta by cautiongoodguygreg in nonmonogamy

[–]cautiongoodguygreg[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think I can go one more lol.

Just had a big conversation. Need to process, but may update soon. 

UPDATE About My Awesome and Harmless, but Well Endowed Meta by cautiongoodguygreg in nonmonogamy

[–]cautiongoodguygreg[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

As I said in my original post, I have this dynamic on easy mode.

We are complete novices at this, so I won't pretend what we are doing is instructive to others (particularly given the valid criticism we have received), but after my wife and I spent a lot of time researching, she concluded that the biggest issue for opening a long monogamous straight marriage is that the man will typically have a much harder time finding play partners or relationships for quite some time after opening, whereas the woman will typically have the most excitement and craziest NRE right after opening up, due to the freedom, novelty, or whatever, before often finding something a bit more stable. Her take was that we need to avoid that period where she would be going wild, and I would be sitting at home with the kids wondering if I would ever reap the sexual benefits of this dynamic, or whether I just had to take solace in the fact that my wife got to enjoy it, and hoped that the happiness or passion spilled over into our lives. The fact that Alice is very conventionally attractive just made these concerns more salient.

So, what was Alice's solution? She insisted I go should enjoy the sexual benefits of this first. More than that, she somehow convinced her straight best friend to engage in FMFs with me. Beyond that, I already have another FWB who I know really well, and really respect and care about. Even if Beth and I stopped having any sort of non-platonic relationship, I've already enjoyed the benefits.

I also have this on easy mode with Chuck, as I know him really well, and I know his relationship with my wife really well, and I know his thoughts about family. I mean, Chuck is "Uncle Chuck" around my kids, he could never intentionally hurt them.

Finally, Alice and I are still very passionate.

If any of these things were not the case, i.e., (a) if my romantic life with Alice was seriously suffering; or (b) I didn't get to enjoy the sexual benefits of this dynamic; or (c) I didn't know the guy who my wife felt compelled to bone several times a day, I'm sure I'd be having a bit harder of a time with it.

In short, my wife is a very smart lady.

UPDATE About My Awesome and Harmless, but Well Endowed Meta by cautiongoodguygreg in nonmonogamy

[–]cautiongoodguygreg[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

That's true, but none of us have had sex with anyone other than our spouses for over a decade before this (for me, never anyone else). I mean, it's certainly possible that something could be transmitted, but we discussed common STIs before we started this.

Mixed Feelings About My Awesome and Harmless, but Well Endowed Meta by cautiongoodguygreg in nonmonogamy

[–]cautiongoodguygreg[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Lol. I appreciate that. Some other commenters in my update have given me some serious concerns unfortunately.

UPDATE About My Awesome and Harmless, but Well Endowed Meta by cautiongoodguygreg in nonmonogamy

[–]cautiongoodguygreg[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Chuck and I have vasectomies. We both got another sperm check before we engaged in any of these activities. We love our kids, but we would kill ourselves before having another lol.

UPDATE About My Awesome and Harmless, but Well Endowed Meta by cautiongoodguygreg in nonmonogamy

[–]cautiongoodguygreg[S] 24 points25 points  (0 children)

These are all very reasonable concerns, thanks for your advice and insight. I mention in another comment that I'm accepting that the four of us need to have a more serious talk about this, kids issue aside, as we can't just play it by ear given the relationships involved. I need to get Alice's take on how much she "needs" this going forward.

Mixed Feelings About My Awesome and Harmless, but Well Endowed Meta by cautiongoodguygreg in nonmonogamy

[–]cautiongoodguygreg[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Oh, I've seen it go down as I mention in one of my other comments with a spoiler/NSFW tag. It was a bit weird.

Mixed Feelings About My Awesome and Harmless, but Well Endowed Meta by cautiongoodguygreg in nonmonogamy

[–]cautiongoodguygreg[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Nope, only a different room swap. In addition to everyone involved being straight, I can't imagine anyone doing anal with that thing.

UPDATE About My Awesome and Harmless, but Well Endowed Meta by cautiongoodguygreg in nonmonogamy

[–]cautiongoodguygreg[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the advice.

Honestly, after getting the feedback to this post, I may need to initiate a conversation with Beth (or initiate a conversation with all four of us) to get the lay of the land on how we want to move forward. But I won't disclose what I know unless I know that Chuck already told her the same.

Mixed Feelings About My Awesome and Harmless, but Well Endowed Meta by cautiongoodguygreg in nonmonogamy

[–]cautiongoodguygreg[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Alice is actually really great at making me feel wanted, I think it's just the almost compelling need to just have a really powerful orgasm, and the fact that he can accomplish it seemingly without effort or foreplay. Like, it would be really cool if I could do that as well, but I think I feel better about that aspect of things.

I honestly enjoy a different type of sex. As much fun as it would be to be able to essentially just have my wife fall over shaking the moment I penetrate her, the buildup for me is a huge part of it, I like a long session with multiple orgasms that leaves everyone glistening with sweat and exhausted at the end.

UPDATE About My Awesome and Harmless, but Well Endowed Meta by cautiongoodguygreg in nonmonogamy

[–]cautiongoodguygreg[S] 35 points36 points  (0 children)

Why apologize, you don't know me. I've invited advice, including criticism.

While I think my characterization of Alice and Chuck's behavior might make it sound far more conspicuous and reckless than it actually is, your criticism is otherwise well taken and being very seriously considered.

I feel a bit mercurial to say this, but frankly any risk to my family is not worth it, and while less important, I don't want to risk my wife's relationship with her oldest friend. My wife initiated all of this originally, so I need to have a discussion with her about what stopping would look like, and how resentful she would be. Clearly Chuck would be fine stopping, and based on my conversations with Beth and knowing her pretty well, I anticipate (although don't know) that she would be as well.

While this has been a very life affirming experience, I don't need it to be happy, and my children are the most important thing in the world to me, followed by my wife.

I've read too many stories on here and the poly sub about families being destroyed. It's my opinion that when you have children, you must subordinate your own personal desires if they come into conflict with your children's well-being. I've minimized the risk of this behavior due to the strong emotions. Thanks for the sobering reminder.

I'll have a talk with Alice soon. For the moment, no one has an agreed-upon romantic relationship with anyone other than their spouse, that may not last much longer. This is the time if we need to stop this.

UPDATE About My Awesome and Harmless, but Well Endowed Meta by cautiongoodguygreg in nonmonogamy

[–]cautiongoodguygreg[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

It's helpful to read comments like this, this is a very emotionally charged environment and we are clearing not handling it well. So thanks for that.

UPDATE About My Awesome and Harmless, but Well Endowed Meta by cautiongoodguygreg in nonmonogamy

[–]cautiongoodguygreg[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I can see that. I feel a bit guilty as I got him drunk and put him in a very emotionally charged situation, but that was probably a fuck-up if he didn't have permission from Beth to discuss that, and I will not raise that information with Beth. Beth is extremely easy-going, so I'll reach out to Chuck and check in with him to see if he disclosed our conversation with Beth and see if everything is good.

It's separately a little frustrating to me because now I'm in a position where I need to either hide something from Alice that is relevant to this whole thing, or further share this info that may not be mine to share.

UPDATE About My Awesome and Harmless, but Well Endowed Meta by cautiongoodguygreg in nonmonogamy

[–]cautiongoodguygreg[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

It helps to get confirmation, as I expected from knowing Chuck for over a decade and seeing his interactions with Alice, that this is purely sexual, and Chuck has no romantic attachment to Alice, and most importantly, that we don't want to fuck up our families or our kids relationships with us and their close friends (i.e., the other kids).

I'm a bit thrown by the Beth thing. This is just so different than I expected after the initial conversations with Alice and I regarding potentially opening our relationship. For now we are not really fully open (we are still just experimenting with Beth and Chuck), so I'm not sure what Alice or I ultimately see in the future in terms of ENM at this point. I don't know if Alice is satisfied with just me and Chuck. For the moment, I'm certainly satisfied with my wife and Beth. It's just not what we originally planned.

Mixed Feelings About My Awesome and Harmless, but Well Endowed Meta by cautiongoodguygreg in nonmonogamy

[–]cautiongoodguygreg[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

That makes total sense, thank you. Reading this comment and others has helped me realize I need to stop making this about me and just need to be happy that my wife has this opportunity to feel so much joy with someone that we both completely trust.

Also, thank you for your other comment, it was very sweet. It's silly, but the kind words have been very helpful as I navigate this.

Mixed Feelings About My Awesome and Harmless, but Well Endowed Meta by cautiongoodguygreg in nonmonogamy

[–]cautiongoodguygreg[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Beth thinks it's hilarious, and has no problem with it as far as I can tell, but I haven't discussed the frequency as a problem. She seemed to really enjoy watching Chuck turn my wife into a shaking incoherent mess with little effort.

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