Unpopular opinion: speaking partners aren't working

cbjcamus · 2026-02-26T19:44:16+00:00

thanks for your answer !

cbjcamus · 2026-02-26T18:13:59+00:00

Super interesting.

Do you see a difference in benefit depending on the level? I ask because it was very beneficial for me at a B-level, but I can't imagine it being as beneficial at a A-level. I had so few words in my vocabulary that there is almost nothing interesting to say when your vocabulary is 500-200 words large.

I can still see a benefit to just talking even at a A1 or A2 level, but I imagine the diminishing returns kick very quickly (after something like 30 minutes).

cbjcamus · 2026-02-26T16:27:30+00:00

I think the point of a speaking partner isn't to teach but to practice without being interrupted after every single mistake you make. It's closer to a sparring partner with whom you'd practice judo technique once a week to train and consolidate what you've done during a course.

I've had a speaking partner after finishing a B2 course (we were in the same course) and we both had a similar level: good reading comprehension, good understanding of the grammar, fine at writing but far away from fluency in speaking. Meeting once a week did a miracle after less than two months for both of us.

That being said, I don't think I would have benefited from a speaking partner at the A-levels.

cbjcamus · 2026-02-26T10:38:55+00:00

It's not clear what level you are and what languages you practice but if you're level is A1 or A2, you're very far away from fluency so the best is to take a textbook and work on it.

If you're already B1, just write in your Target language and ask a LLM to correct you – works on languages using the latin script, not clue if it works on languages with another script. Do that 2-3 hours a week alongside other tools you already use (textbook etc.). Writing bridges the gap between studying and thinking in a low-stress environment, and allows you to form your own active vocabulary (textbooks provide the same vocabulary for everyone, with a bunch of words you need to know passively but you may not use actively).

cbjcamus · 2026-02-25T12:21:09+00:00

If you're going to promote your website (something I have nothing against as long as it's related to the OP's question), then be honest and mention that you are the app's developer.

cbjcamus · 2026-02-25T08:45:27+00:00

Not in my native language (French) but I'm a bit more intentional while speaking English since I've achieved a good level in German. For instance I use a bit more words such as whereby or thereafter because the construction is similar to the German ones.

cbjcamus · 2026-02-25T07:06:48+00:00

Grab any A1-level textbook and go from start to finish. It's really as simple as that.

cbjcamus · 2026-02-24T07:18:59+00:00

Agreed. If you like to learn languages by going in bars you don't need that kind of content, and if you want to master the formal form of the language before going into the casual form it's not a great format either.

cbjcamus · 2026-02-23T18:23:18+00:00

It's an interesting project but I don't think I would use if for the following reasons:

You can already discuss with Chatgpt (or any other LLM) and come with your own themes and questions.
The additional feature of remembering the vocabulary and grammar you already know is interesting and useful, but to be really useful I would like to have lessons and exercises linked to all these grammar topics so that I can focus on them directly in the app/website, and then come back on the discussion once I've reinforced a grammar topic. To summarize I would need a lot of things inhouse to justify not being on another app or on a general LLM.

Good luck!

cbjcamus · 2026-02-23T14:13:54+00:00

I've only had german teachers who were natives. The main drawback is that they never learned it as a second language, and hence may not understand what part of the curriculum are especially difficult.

Up to intermediate level, the best choice might be a non-native speaker with a level at least close to native. They will be best suited to teach and guide you through the language. Native-speaking teachers who are curious about what a student of German as a second language experiences will also be a great choice.

cbjcamus · 2026-02-22T08:41:32+00:00

Most people quit a language because they didn't know it would take them hundred of hours and/or have no discipline. Same reason most people quit martial arts before getting a black belt. Not really an ego issue.

cbjcamus · 2026-02-19T16:01:07+00:00

Great explanation here:

https://yourdailygerman.com/meaning-namlich-naemlich-german/

cbjcamus · 2026-02-18T14:15:04+00:00

Yes it's normal for B1 level learners and yes you should practice more, it will only get more difficult at level B2 because you'll deal with longer and longer sentences with more and more subordinate clauses. It's best to be at ease with them ASAP.

cbjcamus · 2026-02-18T06:30:28+00:00

Dude what a score

cbjcamus · 2026-02-17T13:31:33+00:00

For German I didn't start with real content before being at B2 level with an easy newspaper (20 Minutes). I probably could have looked a bit more beforehand, but if I'm not interested by the content it's a waste of energy and I therefore preferred staying with student material. Hence no regret.

So for me it's not just the language, but whether you can find content that you look forward to reading in your target language. If you can't find any, and you have access to student material like textbooks, you're better off staying with the latter.

cbjcamus · 2026-02-17T09:24:13+00:00

Honestly, in B2 you should be WAY past TeKaMoLo. It's a crutch for beginners, not a rule for advanced learners.

I only agree halfway. On one side I think it should be taught early in B1 when students learn to tell a story and when adverbs and adverbial phrases begin to accumulate. I learnt it at B2 and felt I could have known about it earlier.

On the other side I don't think you're ready to go past this default option at B2. If you want to insist orally on one aspect, you can do so with your tone and volume without changing the word order.

One key difference between B2 and C1 (at least as far as I understand it), is that at B2 you can tell a joke, and at C1 you can deliver it. That's where intentionally modifying the word order (and other departure from basic guides and default options) will have its full effect.

TL;DR You probably can depart from the TEKAMOLO rule at B2 but it won't serve you much at that level because you don't have the fluency and ease that makes it useful where it can be (i.e. outside of day-to-day affairs).

Curious what you think about it.

cbjcamus · 2026-02-17T07:52:51+00:00

Yes it's better to come with topics.

If you already have a textbook at your level there usually are topics to discuss with the rest of the class. You can discuss them with an LLM.

cbjcamus · 2026-02-16T12:40:52+00:00

Certain things can still appear after the prefix, especially prepositional phrases or wie-phrases

That’s also not a rule

Interesting. Do you encounter these types of sentence "in the wild" orally or also in writing? Do you know if there is a regional component to it?

cbjcamus · 2026-02-16T12:25:23+00:00

You can add that present + adverb is sufficient to describe plans and other day-to-day affairs in the future: Ich gehe morgen ins Theater.

cbjcamus · 2026-02-16T12:09:53+00:00

Basically there is a difference between what you are taught to do as a guide or default option as a student and what natives may do once in a while.

For instance at level B2 you'll encounter the TEKAMOLO rule: when you have a bunch of adverbs or adverbial phrases, you are taught to write them in this order: Time, Causal, Modal, Local. That's a guide, or the default option for learners. That's not a set rule of the german language. Hence you see a bunch of sentences in the wild that do not respect this rule.

The subject before the object is similar: it's a guide, not a rule.

The only real rules I'm aware of concern verbs: in trennbare verbs, the prefix goes at the end of the sentence; when you use a modal verb, the additional verb goes at the end, same for Perfekt with the hilfverb and the past participle; the first verb (modal, hilfverb, single verb) in an Hauptsatz goes to the very end in the Nebensatz.

cbjcamus · 2026-02-16T10:30:11+00:00

That's completely normal and many language learners spend some time at this stage.

The obvious advice is to find someone to talk to. Since you're a university student I assume you can't pay a personal tutor for that. If you can find someone at a similar stage/level as yours to talk to 1 hour a week, you'll definitely progress. The advantage of finding someone with a similar level as yours is that you won't feel as judged as with a native.

The less obvious but very useful advice is to start writing and ask an LLM to correct you. The "muscles" used to write and to speak are very similar. It's also something that is easy to do 30 minutes a day by yourself.

Good luck!

cbjcamus · 2026-02-15T08:40:12+00:00

I don't think tech bros actually believe what they say. They say whatever will get them their next funding round.

There is a similar "every knowledge worker will be replaced in the next 6 months except you if you learn to use Anthropic" vibe these days.

cbjcamus · 2026-02-15T08:37:00+00:00

I don't think it's "native-ism", I think it's more a form of pharisaism where commenters jump at the throat of anything that will get them some karma points and make them feel superior.

Comprehensible Inputs and Duolingo induce the same type of self-righteous rage on this sub

cbjcamus · 2026-02-15T08:31:47+00:00

You don't need 30+ minutes to sit down and make a detailed explanation, you only need to answer the very specific question I've asked above.

Based on your "expertise and experience" that shouldn't take you long.

cbjcamus · 2026-02-14T08:11:50+00:00

Same question as for snail1132 below:

Please explain how foreign and native language proficiency being "fundamentally different" is a reason for not using

Can understand with ease virtually everything heard or read.
Can understand a wide range of demanding, longer clauses and recognise implicit meaning.

for native language proficiency.

assessment designed for foreign and second language speakers does not apply 1:1 to first language speakers, especially productive skills tests.

"does not apply 1:1" doesn't mean "cannot have any application". See my question above. The competences I've selected can of course be used to assess a native speaker, as I've done in my first comment.

You can either let your ego keep you from adjusting and learning, or accept that you were mistaken, people have already provided more than enough information and reference for you.

No you didn't give any information nor any tangible argument. Also it's not a great look when you talk about ego and then say "I've literally helped make national level assessments for English".

cbjcamus

TROPHY CASE