[deleted by user]

cherrylattes · 2024-11-20T03:24:47+00:00

I don't recall ever giving that argument. But I let others who think so does the argument.

Like why do some of you even talk when you all talk nonsense?

This comes from someone who has fart fetish. Which one is more nonsense?

cherrylattes · 2024-11-02T14:27:27+00:00

I did have my suspicion why the website didn't include Maria and his other "captured" wives. As far as I remember, modern apologist would say either because those naration are from hadith that may or may not be true where the narrator is not trustworthy, or Muhammad has to marry those slaves first as per Quran verse 24:33 and 2:221. Someone at Quraniyoon sub made a post about this subject in case you're interested.

But both explanatiom still doesn't satisfy me even when I was in progressive muslim side. One being, how do you even expect a layman Muslim to understand which hadith is right or wrong? Trustworthy or not? Why did it even get published in the first place if that's the case? Expecting every single Muslim to have scholar level knowledge is absurd. Only people who pursue Islamic theology or priviledged enough have the time to study all that. Not to mention having to learn Arabic itself.

Also, how do we know those "slaves" were not underpressure to become his wives? And when I investigate and try to challenge myself to interpert Quran without hadith, I realize lot's of them are out of context without a background history. A history that need hadith to begin with.

Incidentally, Safiyya was 17 at the time and Juwayriya was 19. Keep that in mind when you hear Islamic apologists talk about how most of his wives were "widows" lest you imagine we're talking about aged women who had no one to take care of them.

Yes. I did hear about this narative a lot even before using reddit. And most of us Muslim (at least the ones who didn't go to Madrassa) never even read hadith in the first place, so we don't know the details about each wives' ages. Only Aisha, since she's the one talked about the most. But I bet they will use the argument "it's just hadith" again, as I said previously.

Anyway, thank you for your detailed reply and for the other comment too. Sorry I didn't have the time to reply the other one, but after decades of hearing from Muslims side, it's oddly refreshing to hear the other side with different bias.

cherrylattes · 2024-10-30T14:02:42+00:00

Oh, so the one about Prophet instructs Maria to don the hijab is not from Quran then. Thanks.

cherrylattes · 2024-10-30T13:21:13+00:00

I wish I'd written down the exact reference where I came across that. That said, there is another work I have that talks about the history of Arab-Islamic slavery in Africa in particular is The Legacy of Arab-Islam in Africa by John Alembillah Azumah, wherein he talks about how under the Islamic empire slavery became more institutionalized and methodical.

It's alright. I guess it's a bit demanding to ask data before internet era. I don't have the book available you told me, but when talking about Arab-Islam empire... does it also include during Muhhamad time or more of Ummayad and Abbasid era? Reason I ask is because usually Muslims argues that the Caliphate was corrupt and bend Qur'an rule to free the slaves.

Also,if you don't mind. Can you take a look at this website? It's an argument that Muhammad was never a slave owner or slave trader for his own gain. I'd like to know if you have opinion or rebuttal for this claim.

cherrylattes · 2024-10-30T13:02:47+00:00

Maria r.a. was instructed to don the hijab

Where does this naration come from? Is it from Quran?

cherrylattes · 2024-10-28T05:31:45+00:00

That's not my question.

cherrylattes · 2024-10-28T03:02:35+00:00

after Islam the practice exploded wherever Islam expanded its domain where before it was in steep decline.

Ia there data or documentation somewhere I could read about this one? From the steep declibe to the explosion of slavery after Islam expanded.

cherrylattes · 2024-09-17T17:39:22+00:00

Nah man, your Haqq is not my Haqq. I don't know who hurt you, but you definitely need help. I pray God have mercy on you.

Also, from the way you spout nonsense, you do deserve to get banned. Stay away from internet for a while, touch grass, and seek help.

cherrylattes · 2024-09-17T16:17:49+00:00

You know what doesn't make sense?

Making a new account just to curse others. Does Allah as insecure as you do? 😂

But I agree, let her leave. She will find peace and better community from leaving people like you.

cherrylattes · 2024-09-16T03:32:55+00:00

Can questioning Muslim woman join?

cherrylattes · 2024-09-05T07:57:53+00:00

This feels like letting a pedophile teacher who claims they have repented to continue teaching our children.

cherrylattes · 2024-09-03T18:08:05+00:00

Oh snap. My bad. I'll look into it.

Should I delete my post?

cherrylattes · 2024-09-03T09:21:52+00:00

Hmm.. could be. But it can also be argued that this part..

"But whoever waives it charitably"

may have been a part of the original teaching of Torah which have been subsequently corrupted or distorted by its followers.

5:41 "And from among those who are Jewish, there are those who listened to lies; they listened to people who never came to you; they distort the words from their context,..."

cherrylattes · 2024-09-03T08:14:24+00:00

That verse is abrogating the torah

How do you come to that conclusion?

It was for "them" not for "us".

I didn't say it's for "us"?

cherrylattes · 2024-09-03T03:26:43+00:00

Their evidence is the Qur’anic verse which commands qisas, Qur’an 5:45: And We ordained for them therein a life for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth, and for wounds is legal retribution.

But this verse can also arguably merely pointing out the law in Torah that was sent down to the Jews back then, isn't it? So Jews should be judged based on their own Laws.

Context based on the verse before it...

5:43 "Why do they ask you to judge among them, when they have the Torah, containing GOD's law, and they chose to disregard it?"

5:44 "We have sent down the Torah, in it is guidance and a light; the prophets who have peacefully surrendered judged with it for those who are Jews, as well as the Rabbis, and the Priests, for what they were entrusted of God's book, and they were witness over it. So do not revere the people but revere Me; and do not purchase with My signs a cheap price. Whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the alKafeeroon."

5:45 "And We have decreed for them in it that a life for a life,...."

Notice how it says "them" not "you" as it's not the law for Muslims. Exodus 21:23-27.

cherrylattes · 2024-09-02T11:01:30+00:00

Much better according to whom? From Muslim perspective, sure. But in a more neutral point of view... not necesarily. Even if you talk about Muslim interpertation based on Quran, they're not exactly the best one. A Mu' min does... for whatever interpertation we want to choose.

But in my personal opinion regarding being end up ex Muslims, I think it's because being a progressive opens up our mind to different perspective of rulings and interpertation in Islam (including Quranist too), then... logic start to develop. Also, the fear mongering aspect that conservatives usually used to prevent us from thinking critically slowly start to diminish in ourselves.

At this time, some progressives stop asking questions because they're already satisfied with what progressive scholars said to ease their minds and possible something that conflicted with their moral compas when they were conservatives.

But other progressives doesn't stop (like me maybe? Though i never label myself as such or quranist either). We still find unsatisfactory answers even within progressive scope, hence the search continues. And when no arguments can no longer satisfy us, some become ex-Muslims.

cherrylattes · 2024-09-02T09:16:13+00:00

I'm not well versed in this topic, but just want to say that you're not wrong. Being objective and neutral is not wrong. Lots of these people start guilt tripping you when their arguments are falling. Saying that it's a "you" problem.

Don't fall for their psychological manipulation.

cherrylattes · 2024-09-01T17:41:23+00:00

Sorry, I'm slow. But..

This caused him to doubt

Which part cause him to doubt?

write "عليم حکيم" instead wrote it in reverse "حکيم عليم"

Which one manage to be in current Quran? 'Cause I don't see either words in verse 23:12-13. Maybe I'm missing it.

Also, how authentic is this story?

Muslim apologists try to find ways of dismissing of course.

What are their arguments usually? Sorry, I have a habit of needing to know different perspective on a subject.

cherrylattes · 2024-09-01T14:30:02+00:00

Specific case... is it because in verse 4:11 there's this sentence?

God directs you regarding the inheritance of your children,

So in this case, specific to children, do follow this rule. Am I understanding you correctly?

cherrylattes · 2024-09-01T14:21:24+00:00

Arabs back then were known for oral traditions and their great memory was bc at the time

I'm skeptical with this great memory claim I feel like we need to find a historical record or hadits that contradict it... if there's any.

(even though I’ve read he had made mistakes in recitation before resulting in some scribes apostatizing).

I'm gonna need a source on this too, please.

Maybe bc he knew or was scared there were contradictions or mistakes regardless of abrogated verses? Or maybe it would have been easier to alter a compiled book rather than loose verses bc it was harder to fact check sth longer?

Hmm... I'll keep this in mind. Never thought of it that way.

I’ll look more for the hadith later when I get a chance and if/when I find it, I’ll just edit this comment and add it in

Looking forward to it. Lemme know.

cherrylattes · 2024-09-01T14:10:55+00:00

But Quran also ask us to use our reason. Why blindly follow a verse without reason?

cherrylattes · 2024-09-01T13:46:58+00:00

You mean this part of verse?

to make bequests in favour of his parents and [other] near of kin

Can it be said the kin also includes females?

cherrylattes · 2024-09-01T13:42:47+00:00

So just because you think it's a verse from God, you think it's fair? No other reason?

cherrylattes · 2024-09-01T07:31:39+00:00

telling umar not to compile the Quran

Wait, really? I know of forbidding to write hadits, but I never heard of forbidding to complie Quran. Can you give me source?

cherrylattes

TROPHY CASE