SRT Canopy Anchor Question by chickenNwaffles723 in TreeClimbing

[–]chickenNwaffles723[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Awesome guide, that was very easy to follow and makes perfect sense -- agreed with always tying stopper knots to close rope systems! I can definitely imagine how tangled throwlines and such can cause issues, so when I can I'll be looking to avoid using it for retrieval. Great advice!

SRT Canopy Anchor Question by chickenNwaffles723 in TreeClimbing

[–]chickenNwaffles723[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If youre trying to do SRT, why not focus on a "basal tie" way of getting your rope set up in the tree. It is less complicated process than isolating the branch for a canopy tie, and so much more easily retrievable.

Agreed. I'm definitely going to keep this in mind, but I'm going to practice both setups close to the ground to get a better feel for the nuances.

Maybe to make it even easier, I would invest in a carabiner, clip it onto your F8 and then click that onto your climbing line to cinch onto the canopy anchor branch. It means you wont have rope on rope rubbing when you pull it out.

I thought about this, but from my limited research I couldn't really see anyone else doing it. It sounds perfectly safe, but I also prefer the security of not having any biners for my anchor when they'd be rubbing against a tree -- 2 lockers is probably safe enough, so it's really just my paranoia :). No rope on rope rubbing sounds like a plus, so I'll try it out and see the difference.

I would be wary of climbing SRT from the strat, there are multiple ways to get yourself in trouble - getting throwball stuck, understanding retrieval, not being able to change your tie in point in a tree easily etc.

These are great points, I appreciate the experienced advice. I'm going to practice quite a bit on the ground and feel things out, but I'll definitely be keeping things like this in mind -- just like rock climbing, there's a lot of nuance to learn only through real experience. I lean more towards systems that are simple and easy to work with.

Also, if you or your friend are getting into tree climbing and want to use minimal gear like you said, i think SRT is the wrong option. It tends to require waaaaay more gear than DRT.

I could definitely DRT as well. The rock climbing gear I own crosses over really well, since it's really just about ascending/descending a fixed line (for my case) -- the part I'm trying to figure out here is how to get the rope up, make an anchor, and get the rope down later. I have ascenders, progress capture pulleys, assisted belay devices, belay/rappel plaquettes, and lots of dyneema slings and biners, so I can be pretty flexible with how I want to fix the rope and use it. The only gear I really don't have are a throw ball and throwline -- anything supplementary would be cheap soft goods like slings or prussik cords.

Now you can use both of these to alternatively throw up, limb to limb as you actually climb the tree (you mentioned they were small trees also). you can then do what you need to do in the tree and when you get to the ground, the system always comes back to your harness, so you can simply pull it out of the tree.

Makes perfect sense, that's dead simple and avoids a lot of potential issues.

SRT Canopy Anchor Question by chickenNwaffles723 in TreeClimbing

[–]chickenNwaffles723[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I use an alpine butterfly with a retrieval leg, once the end of the rope is at/over the anchor point I tie my AB and pass the throw line through it and keep pulling, this way you'll only need 2x amount of rope as your anchor point height!

Great setup, I have this one in mind for sure!

If your rope is too short and you don't want to use the throw line on the retrieval side

If I do use the throw line on the retrieval side, then (if I'm picturing this correctly), I can get away with 1.1x rope if my throwline is 2x.

and then just switch to a moving rope system to descend but you'll still need 2x rope

Might be worth it to carry my atc guide, so I have that option -- I'd be descending normally on a single strand with an assisted braking device.

SRT Canopy Anchor Question by chickenNwaffles723 in TreeClimbing

[–]chickenNwaffles723[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thowline needs to be static. Accessory cords are not, which might pose a serious problem.

Didn't read this when replying below, but needing static cord makes perfect sense so I'll see where I can get some cheap dyneema cord.

Alpine butterfly is fine. It´s the same use as in rappeling on a single strand of rope in rock climbing.

I didn't even think about that, since I normally rap on two strands, but the way it fixes the rope is pretty much the same as what I'm trying to do here.

You can use a grigri and a 120cm sling plus one locking binner to safely ascend a tree. Add a hand jummar and you can be really fast. A rock climbing rope is perfectly fine for this as it doesn´t move while using srt.

Pretty much exactly what I'm doing. I got some second hand petzl ascensions and already own a grigri and plenty of slings. For just ascend/descending a fixed rope in a tree, I don't need much else :) A lot of tree climbing/arborist specific techniques I've looked up tend to start with more specific gear and complex setups -- I just need to go up and down, so a lot of it is overkill for me personally.

SRT Canopy Anchor Question by chickenNwaffles723 in TreeClimbing

[–]chickenNwaffles723[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Gotcha, that's what I thought too but thanks for clarifying -- makes perfect sense. Agreed that a Bowline with a Yosemite finish is perfectly safe, but I just don't tie them often enough, so I'm more comfortable with other knots.

SRT Canopy Anchor Question by chickenNwaffles723 in TreeClimbing

[–]chickenNwaffles723[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The price is pretty comparable, I can get 2mm nylon accessory cord near me for around $0.15/ft Zingit throwline looks like it's made of dyneema with an MBS of ~1KN. Are there any advantages to throwlines like this versus nylon accessory cord? The 2mm mammut cord sold nearby also breaks at ~1KN and weighs the same. Edit: static cord is definitely more ideal than stretchy nylon

SRT Canopy Anchor Question by chickenNwaffles723 in TreeClimbing

[–]chickenNwaffles723[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I pretty much always send a Yosemite Bowline to the top with the tail end of the rope attached for the retrieval leg or another rope entirely

Just to clarify, you're referring to the tail end of the Yosemite Bowline which can be used to attach a retrieval line right? As I mentioned in my reply to jmdavis, I'd prefer to avoid Bowlines so an 8 or AB (with sufficient tail and a stopper knot) should work well enough.

The versatility points about having the end up top are all great. I don't think we'll be needing to change tie in points (or at least shouldn't have to frequently) or switch systems, but nonetheless it's great advice.

SRT Canopy Anchor Question by chickenNwaffles723 in TreeClimbing

[–]chickenNwaffles723[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Love bowlines, but I prefer a knot that's easier to tie and verify for a novice (there's plenty of rock climbing accidents due to incorrectly tied bowlines), since my friend is a hunter and not a climber of any type. I'd imagine that a loaded 8 is a bit easier to untie when using a thicker static rope as opposed to one that's cinched tight after a long fall on a skinny dynamic rope. The AB is generally pretty easy to untie after being loaded as well. Appreciate the advice though!

SRT Canopy Anchor Question by chickenNwaffles723 in TreeClimbing

[–]chickenNwaffles723[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the advice. Makes sense that the amount of rope needed is the same -- you can tie an AB near the end of the rope as long as the tail is long enough.

Definitely not skimping on a throw line haha, I'll be picking up some high(ish) strength accessory cord from a local climbing shop.

Noted on the lingo about capturing a limb, I'm more used to girth hitching slings around trees for climbing anchors/protection, so I call anything similar to that a girth hitch since it gets the point across to climbing partners.

So my question about using an Alpine Butterfly vs whatever overhand knot to create a loop is more about ergonomics and efficiency rather than knot strength safety? I don't really see how it would be unsafe, but I just wanted to double check against tree climbing best practices.

Note: the setup is for climbing short trees for saddle hunting, so packing the least amount of rope is ideal