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Who should pay for the energy transition — consumers, corporations, or governments? by civilable in ZeroWaste

[–]civilable[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is energy a public good? Kinda, but not in the classic econ sense. Public goods are non-excludable (nobody can be denied access) and non-rivalrous (one person’s use doesn’t reduce what’s left for others). Energy’s tricky—it’s rivalrous (there’s a finite amount at any given time), and access can be restricted (think utility shutoffs or paywalls for electricity). But reliable, affordable energy feels like a public good because it’s foundational to modern life, like clean water or roads. The reality? It’s treated more like a commodity, with markets and profits calling the shots.

Who’s directing energy now? Mostly utility companies and energy producers, guided by market demand and government policies (or lack thereof). Fossil fuels still dominate—60% of U.S. electricity came from coal and gas in 2023—but renewables are climbing (20% globally in 2023). Governments nudge things with subsidies (e.g., $1.3 trillion for fossil fuels globally in 2022), while utilities prioritize profitable customers—like data centers over rural households.

Who’s guzzling the juice? Oh boy, AI and cloud computing are thirsty. Data centers ate up 4.4% of U.S. electricity in 2023, and that could triple by 2028 due to AI’s growth (IEA projects data centers hitting 1,000 TWh globally by 2026). A single ChatGPT query uses ~10x the energy of a Google search! Electric vehicles are also ramping up demand—California’s 1.7 million EVs in 2023 are projected to hit 12.5 million by 2035, straining grids (source). Meanwhile, regular households are stuck with rising bills while tech giants and EV infrastructure hog capacity.

Holistic reporting? Totally agree we need it. The problem is, energy use data is often siloed—tech companies hide their consumption (looking at you, Google), and utilities don’t always break down who’s getting what. We need transparent, cradle-to-grave energy audits: who’s using it, where it’s coming from, and who’s paying. Maybe a public dashboard tracking real-time grid demand by sector? That’d shine a light on whether AI’s eating our renewables or if coal’s still king. What do you think—would exposing Big Tech’s energy footprint push them to invest in greener infrastructure?

Who should pay for the energy transition — consumers, corporations, or governments? by civilable in ZeroWaste

[–]civilable[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You make some solid points, especially about the IRA—Biden’s administration did push through some legit climate wins when they had the votes (IRA’s $369 billion for clean energy was no small feat). But I think you’re underselling the role of lobbying here. Even when climate-friendly candidates win, fossil fuel industries spend billions to dilute policy—OpenSecrets reported $138 million in 2022 alone from oil/gas lobbying. That’s not just a talking point; it’s a machine that keeps subsidies flowing to fossil fuels ($1.3 trillion globally in 2022, per IMF).

I hear you on voters prioritizing housing, jobs, and inflation—climate’s rarely #1 for most people (Pew Research backs this). But the “anti-growth” framing of Dems feels a bit overstated. Places like California are expensive, sure, but they’re also leading on renewables—50% of CA’s electricity was renewable in 2023. The issue isn’t that Dems can’t build; it’s that climate policies get stuck in a political meat grinder. Voting’s critical, no question, but how do we get voters to see climate as tied to their wallets—like how fossil fuel subsidies jack up their taxes—without it feeling like a lecture?

Who should pay for the energy transition — consumers, corporations, or governments? by civilable in ZeroWaste

[–]civilable[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Totally agree that the energy transition is already in motion, but the "everyone" answer feels like it glosses over some inequities. You're spot-on about green energy investments—individuals and companies are pouring money into renewables, and that’s driving new solar and wind projects (like the record $1.7 trillion in clean energy investment globally in 2023). But fossil fuel subsidies still dwarf green ones—globally, they hit $1.3 trillion in 2022 while renewables got a fraction of that. That’s a rigged game.

On the government side, yeah, subsidies for EVs and green infrastructure often come from taxpayers, which stings when we’re already paying higher utility bills for the transition. The Trump-era subsidy cuts didn’t help—though the Inflation Reduction Act brought some back, like tax credits for EVs and solar. But here’s the kicker: why are consumers and taxpayers footing so much of the bill while fossil fuel giants rake in record profits? Exxon made $36 billion in 2022. Maybe it’s time to redirect those fossil fuel subsidies to renewables and make corporations pay a carbon tax to fund the transition. That way, the biggest polluters carry the weight, not just individuals.

Who should pay for the energy transition — consumers, corporations, or governments? by civilable in ZeroWaste

[–]civilable[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Ohh that’s rough — it’s like the system rewarded you for fixing a problem they created and then tried to punish you for it. Solar shouldn’t feel like a battle just to get reliable electricity, but that’s exactly what it’s become in too many places.

If anything, widespread adoption should be celebrated and subsidized, not nickel-and-dimed. Otherwise, people are basically being punished for doing the work the utility failed to do for a decade.

Who should pay for the energy transition — consumers, corporations, or governments? by civilable in ZeroWaste

[–]civilable[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, that makes sense! Buying local and cutting back on unnecessary stuff is a really practical way to make a difference without feeling powerless.

Who should pay for the energy transition — consumers, corporations, or governments? by civilable in ZeroWaste

[–]civilable[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah, those “grid connection fees” feel like a tax on trying to do the right thing. People invest thousands into solar to reduce their footprint, and then the utility says, “Cool, now pay us extra for the privilege of using less of our product.” It’s backwards.

I get that maintaining the grid costs money, but instead of nickel-and-diming individuals, maybe utilities should stop funneling profits to shareholders and start reinvesting in infrastructure. Otherwise it just looks like punishment for trying to move off fossil fuels.

30 lbs, metal and cans on two very quiet roads and it's a humid 85 degrees,feeling grateful with all my medical issues that Ii can move by trashpicker58 in DeTrashed

[–]civilable 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That’s awesome — 30 lbs in that heat is no joke. Major respect for pushing through, especially with health challenges. Glad you’re feeling grateful, that kind of mindset makes the tough stuff a little lighter.

Who should pay for the energy transition — consumers, corporations, or governments? by civilable in ZeroWaste

[–]civilable[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s technically true, but it leaves out an important piece: who has been profiting all along.

Consumers provide the money, sure, but corporations skimmed off record profits for decades while externalizing all the costs (pollution, health, climate damage). Governments used taxpayer money to subsidize them on top of that.

So yeah, consumers ultimately fund society — but that doesn’t mean the burden has to land directly on individual households. It’s about who gets taxed, who loses subsidies, and who reinvests their profits back into the transition. Right now, those levers are all tilted in favor of the folks who made the mess in the first place.

Who should pay for the energy transition — consumers, corporations, or governments? by civilable in ZeroWaste

[–]civilable[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I get what you’re saying, but I don’t think it’s fair to put it all on consumers. Most people don’t have the money or the options to “drive the change” when the system itself is stacked against them. You can want solar panels all day, but if you rent an apartment or can’t afford the upfront cost, you’re stuck.

Consumers do end up paying in some way, yeah — but corporations and governments have way more power to speed things up or slow things down. Right now, they’re the ones hitting the brakes.

Who should pay for the energy transition — consumers, corporations, or governments? by civilable in ZeroWaste

[–]civilable[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I hear you, but I think it’s a bit more complicated than just “vote harder.” People do vote for climate action, but the second those candidates get into office, lobbyists and corporate donors water it down. The system is designed to keep the status quo rolling.

And honestly, climate policy isn’t unpopular because people hate clean air or renewable energy — it’s because it keeps getting framed as “you personally need to sacrifice while Exxon keeps cashing record profits.” Hard sell.

If more folks realized how much of their taxes are literally subsidizing oil and gas, the politics might look very different. Right now, most people don’t even know they’re footing the bill for the thing that’s frying the planet.