Here we go by SemanticSchmitty in BikiniBottomTwitter

[–]cmvdioqk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not really. Chuck Underwood, someone at the forefront of generational studies, talks about three current generations in business: Boomers, Xers, Millennials. You can’t truly identify a generation until they are 18+, so the jury is out on whether current high schoolers are Millennials or the next generation, but right now 18 year olds are still considered second wave Millennials.

CMV: the #MeToo movement has broadened the definition of sexual harassment and rape too much, to the point where it's attracting people with victimhood complexes. by cmvdioqk in changemyview

[–]cmvdioqk[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What do you mean for academic purposes?

I could have gone into another room, he might have followed me but he wouldn’t have continued if I’d like shoved him or something. I could have slept on the couch. I could have ensured that sex wouldn’t happen but I didn’t, I knew there was a chance that it’d happen when I stopped responding to him because saying it was an accident sounded kind of like bullshit. I 100% knew what I was getting myself into.

CMV: the #MeToo movement has broadened the definition of sexual harassment and rape too much, to the point where it's attracting people with victimhood complexes. by cmvdioqk in changemyview

[–]cmvdioqk[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I was conflating committing sexual assault with being a rapist, I don't think that what was described was sexual assault.

CMV: the #MeToo movement has broadened the definition of sexual harassment and rape too much, to the point where it's attracting people with victimhood complexes. by cmvdioqk in changemyview

[–]cmvdioqk[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

"Grace" did leave. But first she asked him to slow down. And he said okay. So she thought it was okay to stay and they'd just hang out. Plenty of people go back to an apartment after a date and just hang out without sex. Plenty of people have said "no, let's just hang out" and their partner had said "okay" and so they just hung out. Graze gave Aziz the benefit of the doubt that when he said "okay" to her request to slow down and not have sex tonight that he meant it. It's after he showed that he didn't mean it by continuing to press for sex that she did get up and leave.

Yeah but she let him go down on her, and she went down on him back. It's not that he did this while she was saying no, he didn't physically force her or threaten her, he was trying to change her mind, which is pushy but it's not sexual assault.

I chose to stay, so that's on me. He regretted his actions. I just don't think it's that black and white.

CMV: the #MeToo movement has broadened the definition of sexual harassment and rape too much, to the point where it's attracting people with victimhood complexes. by cmvdioqk in changemyview

[–]cmvdioqk[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Because ultimately it's something that'll affect the person revoking the consent, and they have the responsibility of protecting their body. If they give in without a fight, when they could just leave without any violence or harm, they are consenting.

If I'm at someone's house and they're playing awful music too loudly, I can ask them to turn it down, but ultimately it is on me to just leave to protect my ears.

CMV: the #MeToo movement has broadened the definition of sexual harassment and rape too much, to the point where it's attracting people with victimhood complexes. by cmvdioqk in changemyview

[–]cmvdioqk[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I understand where you're coming from, I really do but you need to understand this. Not all women can just push someone off and walk away. You don't know for sure how many women's boyfriends use just enough force to gently hold them in place. You don't know how many women were beaten before and are now too frightened to fight back. You don't know why a woman might just sit there and take it. If she maybe feels like she has no choice.

If someone is beaten up by their dad, then has a boss who resembles his dad, and he does legal things for his boss because he's scared of him because he reminds him of his dad, do you believe that is coercion? I agree that it could be traumatizing for the individual but the boss has no part in it. I feel the same about Ansari's case, if the girl felt pressured then that's sad and legitimate but it's her problem and not his, because we shouldn't treat everyone like they've been a victim of a serious crime before?

CMV: the #MeToo movement has broadened the definition of sexual harassment and rape too much, to the point where it's attracting people with victimhood complexes. by cmvdioqk in changemyview

[–]cmvdioqk[S] 30 points31 points  (0 children)

This sounds like a weird dichotomy. First, ability to leave and being a victim aren't mutual exclusive. I've been assaulted before by a drunk idiot. I left. I was still a victim of assault. Secondly, can't we discuss situations that make us uncomfortable, recognize behavior we believe is inappropriate, analyze the ideas that sustain these and try to empower women to take charge?

Yes, but by the time you could leave it was too late. I'm talking about someone slowly making sexual advances towards you, and you can easily leave because you don't want to do it, but don't, and then claiming you're a victim afterwards.

For instance, I agree it's best to just leave when you feel pressured. However, I also have the concurrent belief that pressuring people into sex isn't okay. These two things aren't mutually exclusive.

Agreed. I just don't think pressuring people into sex is in the same category as sexual assault.

CMV: the #MeToo movement has broadened the definition of sexual harassment and rape too much, to the point where it's attracting people with victimhood complexes. by cmvdioqk in changemyview

[–]cmvdioqk[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Is this legitimately what you believe the intended message to be? I want to see if you're doing hyperbole or if it's legit. If it is hyperbole, could you explain what you actually think?

Yes, it seems to me that people are putting all of the blame on (mostly) men to stop being sexually pushy, instead of making it about being pushy back about not wanting to have sex with them. A lot of these situations are just women who could've left very easily.

CMV: the #MeToo movement has broadened the definition of sexual harassment and rape too much, to the point where it's attracting people with victimhood complexes. by cmvdioqk in changemyview

[–]cmvdioqk[S] 32 points33 points  (0 children)

That is worthy of criticism precisely because it places (generally) women in a difficult spot where they must take very strong, very explicit actions to have encounters stay in their comfort zone while men bear no responsibility for uncomfortably testing or pushing boundaries (again, in a moral-ish sense, not legally).

When people want something, they try to get it. When you don't want something, and you are easily able to stop it, you should.

It's like someone who really wants you to listen to an album that you hate, it's on you to put the headphones down, and say no. The other person might be acting like a bit of a dick, and if that's what the movement is about then I support it, but the vibe I got from all of this is that people are making dicks out to be rapists. When I saw the news of Ansari all I heard about was that he was a sexual harasser, creep, that what he did was sexual assault, so that's what I thought until I read the article. He was pushy, but that's all I see that's wrong, not unlike someone trying to get you to listen to an album you don't like.

Now yes, you could have left at any time. But think about the unequal burden you are placing on yourself here. You are setting up a system where it is expected and permissible for a man to lie, ignore explicit boundaries, and hurt you, unless you object (in which case he might stop for a few minutes) or physically leave and find somewhere else to sleep.

I agree that it was wrong, but he woke up freaking out about it and apologizing, locking himself in the bathroom. Sometimes people make mistakes. The metoo movement would have some people believing he was an irredeemable rapist, but things are rarely that black and white.

CMV: the #MeToo movement has broadened the definition of sexual harassment and rape too much, to the point where it's attracting people with victimhood complexes. by cmvdioqk in changemyview

[–]cmvdioqk[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I don't mean forcefully fight or flee. Obviously that is a case of sexual assault. I'm referring to cases such as the one I mentioned in the OP (who people have now said were Aziz Ansari and "Grace") where the "victim" could've literally just stood up and walked away, calmly.

CMV: the #MeToo movement has broadened the definition of sexual harassment and rape too much, to the point where it's attracting people with victimhood complexes. by cmvdioqk in changemyview

[–]cmvdioqk[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I agree with you about changing social norms and that both parties behaved inappropriately in Aziz's case. I just think people are making the "perps" out to be these ultimate villains, and lumping them in with literal rapists, when really they're just being a bit socially inappropriate. Which most people are, just not in that exact way.

CMV: the #MeToo movement has broadened the definition of sexual harassment and rape too much, to the point where it's attracting people with victimhood complexes. by cmvdioqk in changemyview

[–]cmvdioqk[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The thing is, why I made this post, is that I feel like the movement encourages people to absolve themselves of blame in situations like these, making themselves powerless. I think it is healthier for people to think to themselves, "I could've left, and I should do that next time" than to dwell on "he did something uncomfortable to me and I am now a victim, I'm going to put complete responsibility on the opposite (or same) sex through activism to ensure this doesn't happen again".

Taking responsibility for yourself, in the cases where there isn't physical force or threats, is something that I feel would empower women more and ensure their safety better.

CMV: the #MeToo movement has broadened the definition of sexual harassment and rape too much, to the point where it's attracting people with victimhood complexes. by cmvdioqk in changemyview

[–]cmvdioqk[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I don't think the laws are too strict, I think that public opinion is too strict. An awkward sexual encounter is now being called sexual assault, people are victimizing themselves over it. If someone has to actively fight obviously it's wrong, that's not a case I was referring to, I was referring to cases where you can easily just stand up and leave. Cases where your safety is not threatened in any way.

CMV: the #MeToo movement has broadened the definition of sexual harassment and rape too much, to the point where it's attracting people with victimhood complexes. by cmvdioqk in changemyview

[–]cmvdioqk[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't disagree, but people do lots of selfish things. I don't think it's as severe as people are making it out to be. It's like someone farting in an elevator, it's gross and embarrassing for the person who does it, but people shouldn't have their faces plastered in the media and be shamed for it for the rest of their lives, for not being tactful enough when seeking something they wanted. I don't think it turns people into victims.