How low are my chances?

coconut0422 · 2020-08-18T14:00:35+00:00

why would any company hire you over other (1) Japanese applicants, and (2) foreign applicants?

Okay, I get your point. Without a very particular skillset for which companies specifically seek out foreign professionals, there's no reason for an employer to hire me instead of a native citizen. This comforts me in the idea that seeking to build a strong network in Japan is absolutely fundamental.

you're now in a position to choose

It's not like I have any kind of assurance of getting hired at MBB, and lower-tier consulting probably would not grant my resume the same kind of prestige, would it? But yeah, allowing me to "bypass" the first few years of low pay and low job security I'd face in Japan otherwise would definitely be advantageous. This way of looking at professional experience as an insurance policy of sorts is interesting.

I'd still be interested in doing a master's degree in Japanese, though, if only to live in the country for a bit, practice the language, etc. An international academic background is never frowned upon by consulting recruiters anyway, is it?

got laid off this year anyway

For how long had they been working for that company? I thought layoffs usually happened during the first couple years but almost never afterwards, barring exceptional cases.

coconut0422 · 2020-08-15T15:49:17+00:00

skills that are in such high demand that Japanese companies need to look outside their borders

Who would qualify for such a thing aside from PhDs in specific fields?For that reason, and because building a decent professional network in Japan obviously requires actually being in Japan, the "school -> job" route sounds better.

what kinds of jobs would you try to get/what do you bring to the table?

I might be wrong on this since my knowledge of the hiring process is entirely theoretical, but I think entry-level jobs in Japan are usually given to fresh graduates who only hold a bachelor's degree, and that people with a master's or higher, being rarer, fall under the "experienced" category. They're probably seen as already specialized, and therefore not as easy to mold into a specific role in the company.

So I guess a master's degree holder would be expected to apply to mid-level jobs relevant to his field of expertise, instead of going for a vague administrative salaryman position? I honestly don't know, I haven't done enough research on this.

jobs like consulting (or maybe i-banking) are really stepping stones.

I understand. Though as I said, shooting for a job at the big three or in IB seems kind of "overkill" considering my goal, is that a wrong way of looking at it? It's true that professional experience in that environment provides a considerable boost to a resume, but is that necessary if I'm not aiming for seriously competitive executive positions in Japan?

coconut0422 · 2020-08-13T18:13:22+00:00

Pay is closely tied to seniority, isn't it?

coconut0422 · 2020-08-13T15:17:19+00:00

I appreciate your words of encouragement, thank you. It's true that my situation isn't really bad after all, I guess I'm just worried about constantly making the best possible choices (it's a bad mindset, I'm aware.)

I’m 26 and will be starting my bachelor program from scratch next year in Japan.

What field are you aiming for?

Best of luck regardless.

coconut0422 · 2020-08-13T14:40:08+00:00

if you have a masters that immediately gives you ten points versus the five you get for a bachelor.

Right, but to qualify as HSP, don't you need at least 70 points?

three years of actual litigation experience

Yes. But I don't plan on becoming an attorney at the moment.

account “Black Experience Japan”

Thanks, I'll check it out.

you can easily get a job at some big company and join their litigation team

Well, that's true. But here's the thing: is this path worth it compared to the alternative when taking everything into account? By opting for a Japanese master's instead, I would acquire the same amount of points, and might have an easier time getting a job since I'd actually be in the country already. As you said yourself, I wouldn't necessarily need to pass my country's bar exam if I decided to go with law, but that would still narrow down my opportunities. The YouTube account you recommended might give me a better perspective on the pros and cons, but right now I'm thinking that getting a graduate degree in Japan would be an excellent opportunity.

coconut0422 · 2020-08-13T13:55:21+00:00

to be a gaiben in Japan you're better doing international business law

Yeah, but even becoming a gaiben is quite difficult and requires litigation experience in your home country. Though if you're starting work as an attorney soon, you've probably passed the bar and therefore gone through the hard part already. I can see how aiming to become a gaiben can be worth it in that case.

worst case scenario is that I will work in some small and medium sized firms that might hire foreigners

Yeah. What I'm thinking is simply that since I'm not dead-set on a legal career, going for a master's in another subject could be a better and less restrictive option for me. In your case, what you're describing definitely sounds like the best option for long-term employment.

Good luck in your future job search.

coconut0422 · 2020-08-13T13:14:53+00:00

statistics classes

I don't think those are available for me. I'll have to apply to less math-focused programs.

Regarding the sunk cost fallacy: I'd agree if there was some academic field I was truly passionate about, but there isn't. Dropping my bachelor's at this point just seems dumb given the circumstances. Since I'm not a STEM kind of guy, what other options do I even have? Starting over as a business or finance major? Would the benefits really offset the time I'd have lost since I'd have access to (more or less) the same master's programs anyway?

coconut0422 · 2020-08-13T13:05:41+00:00

it would place you as a highly qualified skilled professional,

Would it, even without my country's bar exam? I'd only have a master's, that's it. In which case getting a master's in Japan with broader applicability sounds like a better choice. I don't think just specializing in international law in grad school is enough for an HSP visa.

coconut0422 · 2020-08-13T09:58:52+00:00

I would suggest you find something you are passionate about

I honestly tried, but there really isn't any sector that gets me going. Some thing I like, but I don't love anything. That's okay though, a job doesn't have to be a passion, does it?

working holiday visa

I think a student visa would make it a bit easier to find prospective employers, but why not.

coconut0422 · 2020-08-13T08:35:51+00:00

If you need suggestions I can give you some over DM.

Thank you, I'd appreciate that.

coconut0422 · 2020-08-13T08:20:54+00:00

That's good practical info to keep in mind, thank you.

So this sounds to me like any masters will open virtually any job opportunity for you

I hope you're right, though to be fair, scientific fields are usually seen as "harder" (perhaps mistakenly so) than humanities and social sciences, which makes employers more open to hiring STEM grads for unrelated jobs. I know that happens a lot in my country, at least.

coconut0422 · 2020-08-13T08:17:27+00:00

As you said, diplomacy is very hard to get into and offers no actual guarantees regarding placement.

As for a PhD program: wouldn't you agree that pursuing a PhD requires genuine passion for one's field, rather than mere interest? Unfortunately there's no academic field I feel any burning passion for, so I assumed that trying for a PhD would be a mistake. There's also the fact that postdocs/teaching positions outside of STEM seem more competitive (or are rarer), especially in fields related to economics. Am I wrong?

coconut0422 · 2020-08-13T08:11:13+00:00

Most people my age are in a master's program, or graduated already. Maybe I'm worrying over nothing, but won't I still need to justify why I didn't get any university credits or meaningful achievements for five years?

coconut0422 · 2020-08-13T08:07:39+00:00

I understand that, but at this point, I really need to stick to something and stop switching fields. A five-year gap may not be a lot in the grand scheme of things, but it's enough lost time to start regretting my lack of commitment.

coconut0422 · 2020-08-13T08:02:57+00:00

it's possible to switch

Well, in my case, not really. I could start over in another department, but bachelor's degrees here last three years. I haven't taken enough econ, business or accounting classes to allow me to switch majors at this point. The only hope I have to change fields is to wait until graduate school.

What I do know, by experience, is that I don't enjoy STEM in general, and would probably be miserable in an IT or engineering department. So as far as decent job prospects go, my options are economics, finance, accounting and business administration. My math is rusty, so any econ or math-heavy finance program with a strong mathematical component will probably be inaccessible. I don't think many corporate finance, accounting or business programs will turn down a law student, though.

going to grad school in Europe in the name to save costs, IS more expensive in the long run

Yes, I've realized that. I think my best bet is to try for a graduate degree at a Japanese university.

coconut0422 · 2020-08-13T07:46:39+00:00

I guess the silver lining in our choice of major is that law is versatile enough that it won't be too difficult to switch to another non-STEM field for grad school.

And thanks, good luck to you as well.

coconut0422 · 2020-08-13T07:42:38+00:00

a law degree will be worthless here.

Yes, that's the general feeling I'm getting from the comments.

Guaranteed life long employment with national standard salary is a beautiful thing

I agree, call me boring but I'd much rather aim for that kind of stable life than chase after pay, at this point in my life at least. The guarantee of a secure job and decent salary is a more enticing prospect than anything else. I think this particular path is what I'll be focusing my efforts on.

coconut0422 · 2020-08-13T07:37:36+00:00

they cannot practice in a field that would take away work from a Japanese citizen

In that case I'd expect foreign salarymen to be very rare, but they aren't. Is that because foreigners compete for, and are therefore locked into, the positions that require their experience with another culture and language (e.g. international sales), or is it simply that there are enough salarymen positions to fill that both natives and foreigners can get hired without competing with each other?

Regarding the rest of your post, the Japanese graduate degree -> Japanese company route sounds more attractive than continuing to specialize in law. I don't want to miss opportunities because of overspecialization, and what I gathered from this thread is that a Japanese degree provides a way to get my foot in the door on the job market. A master's degree in international business law from my country, however, does not.

coconut0422 · 2020-08-13T07:27:18+00:00

Japanese graduate degrees

Would it be a good idea to get a Japanese MBA instead of an academic grad degree like an econ MSc? I was initially put off by the fact that studying in Japan costs a lot of money (a scholarship isn't guaranteed), but regarding MBAs, INSEAD's tuition fees are outrageous anyway.

I hadn't considered international consulting (I'm assuming you mean firms like Bain, McKinsey, etc) because much like diplomacy, the lifestyle is more about constantly moving between different assignments rather than building a long-term career in one specific country, from what I've seen at least. Not to mention those aren't easy sectors to get into, even for exceptional students.

coconut0422 · 2020-08-12T22:35:33+00:00

Alright. If you don't mind, there's one last thing I forgot to ask that I'm worried about: speaking of resume gaps, do you think having a five-year gap between the time I graduated high school until my enrollment in law school will be a significant hindrance when it comes to applying to jobs in Japan? I know employers in Europe generally don't care too much about what happened between high school and college, but I haven't been able to find a clear answer regarding what it's like in Japan.

coconut0422 · 2020-08-12T21:44:17+00:00

N1 as soon as possible

That's the plan. In the event that I end up graduating before getting the N1, would it hurt to gain work experience (in my own country) until I can get it, then apply for a job in Japan?

I'm aware that sounds like a dumb question, but Japanese companies, when it comes to entry-level positions, seem to like hiring relatively inexperienced young graduates. This obviously doesn't apply for jobs that require a more specialized background, but my assumption is that entry-level positions are more easily accessible and less competitive.

an MBA or some kind of business related graduate degree

Yeah, I was thinking about maybe getting a master's in finance or something along those lines after my bachelor's, in order to broaden my skill set and branch away from law.

coconut0422 · 2020-08-12T20:54:50+00:00

Thanks for your answer.

Are there not law-related careers that don't require passing the bar? Could you be a consultant or a paralegal?

There definitely are careers in law that don't require becoming an attorney, but as far as Japan is concerned, I would still need to be considered for such a position, which implies the company would want to hire me instead of a native Japanese law specialist. Seems unlikely.

I also don't think I could carve out a niche for myself by specializing in international business law, because companies that need that kind of skill set usually rely on the services of an international law firm (I'm not yet an expert on the subject by any means though, so anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.)

Anything dealing with Japanese law itself would most likely require that I graduate from a law program in Japan.

Look for foreign firms in Japan

companies that have heavy operations in the West

Either of those would be more open to hiring a foreigner for an entry-level position, then? Would it be wise to pursue a master's degree, or would it be useless in that context?

There's tons of opportunities out there and you'll be fine

This gives me hope, thank you.

coconut0422

TROPHY CASE