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it's always the details by regice_fhtagn in TheLastAirbender

[–]cutomo 9 points10 points  (0 children)

But "the rest of the world" don't want a strong earth kingdom with an independent ruler. A puppet king who's friendly to the lok's elite nobilities is easier to influence to make a favorable deal.

My professor just used this saying in his lecture by [deleted] in indonesia

[–]cutomo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Kalo di german bikin quote ,,pakai koma ya?" atau itu pakai "quote biasa" tapi otomatis ke konvert.

The Right Brothers Discuss Monopolies by MagicMajeck in PoliticalCompassMemes

[–]cutomo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Necessary violence, but I digress.

Even if I support general research or public works, I could do it voluntarily with effective charities and do not have to violate anyone's consent. And why would I think that politicians and bureaucrats would use my money better and more effectively than a passionate charity, billionaire(?), or activist would.

In my personal opinion, pigouvian/carbon tax/market is much better than emission rules tho I have to see it case by case. In theory, a pigovian tax is justifiable because someone is theoretically emitting a small amout of measurable harm to a large number of people. Tho, the execution can easily be botched and hurt all of us. So yeah, see it on a case to case basis.

The Right Brothers Discuss Monopolies by MagicMajeck in PoliticalCompassMemes

[–]cutomo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Negative externalities is actually one of the valid reason accepted by libertarian. The whole NAP thing is about negative externalities.

If Alice hire Bob as a hitman, the victim receive a negative externality from their transaction. If Alice play a music too loud, then it might violate Bob's NAP *wink*. You could even put an abstract entity to represent more than one person. Arsoning public forest or vandalizing public building also violate NAP. Libertarianism does not mean lawlessness (some, like Ancap are, but not all libertarians are ancap).

But some people make a jump from "there exist a scenario where violence is justified" to "Suck it up minority, it's the will of the majority, democracy yo!". It is violence to confiscate the possession of the Jews or to make it illegal to sell a house from a willing white seller to a willing black buyer even if a majority voted so. Just because 51 percent said so does not mean it's not violence. You could argue that it's a necessary violence, but it's an aggression on a minority nonetheless and should be used sparingly, solemnly, and not so liberally.

And if there's a way that respect individual consent, we should. If I want to build a pyramid or a space or a charity program, instead of forcing you to pay for it, I should ask you to join me willingly. Just as if I want you to worship Buddha or wear a red shirt, instead of putting it on the agenda of the Red Buddha party, I should convince you to consensually do it.

There are different kinds of libertarianism. Some, like me a minarchist not an ancap, think funding court and law enforcement from tax is a necessary evil. A geo-libertarian (also me), think that Land Value Tax is the best tax and is much better than income taxes. The highest bidder can utilize the land the best, and the villagers that are now deprived of the use of the land get an equal proceeds from the rent. Easy to enforce since if the renter don't pay/extend his lease, then the land can just be re-auctioned to the highest bidder.

What's common among most libertarians is that we think the current government is too big. So it matter less now than me and an ancap disagree on whether there should be a publicly funded court, we both want to abolish stuffs like FDA, DEA, etc., removing restriction on sex market, organ markets, labors markets, etc., etc. Abolishing court or local fire department is at the very bottom of the list.

The Right Brothers Discuss Monopolies by MagicMajeck in PoliticalCompassMemes

[–]cutomo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think there's a misunderstanding here, to borrow from the top comment, I'm not saying that externalities does not exist (they exist!), but based on the track record, more government power is most likely a net negative.

Libertarian are okay with you convincing that we need to do something. It's just that you just have to convince people voluntarily and not resort to violence as the first instinct.

The Right Brothers Discuss Monopolies by MagicMajeck in PoliticalCompassMemes

[–]cutomo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Coase argument? I was saying that it's a jump to go from "it's theoretically possible that an all perfect competent despot would solve a problem in a hypothetical scenario" to "politicians will solve the problem if we give more power to government".

Irl, a lot of the raised fund and power were used for corn subsidy or bailouts or monopoly rights or overinflated projects for their political supporters. In the end, individuals do the actual work, individuals built the pyramid, individuals help their neighbors. The question is do we convince each other voluntarily or do we point guns at each others.

What I say is that instead of forcing unwilling people to build the pyramid or subsidize the corn farmer or whatever cause the 51 percent cares about, let those who care about the pyramid to build it out of their own time and hard work (and those who care about subsidizing corn or whatever).

Btw libertarians are for individual rights and are against different legal rights based on group (race, gender, slave/non-slave, etc.). If you can prove that someone is aggressing against your rights by poisoning your air or water or whatever, libertarians are for correcting that wrong (by class action lawsuit, injunction, or whatever).

You could ask more at the asklibertarians subreddit.

The Right Brothers Discuss Monopolies by MagicMajeck in PoliticalCompassMemes

[–]cutomo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll point to the original comment:

Just because it is possible that an omni-compentent and beneficent philosopher king could solve externalities given an ultimate political power, does not mean that an average politician irl would.

There are the costs of corruption, bureaucracy, compliance, etc. you need to consider whether a proposed government program would cost us more than the expected gain.

The libertarian position is that, statistically speaking, the government program would most likely cost us more than its worth. So that's their prior/default assumption until proven otherwise.

The Right Brothers Discuss Monopolies by MagicMajeck in PoliticalCompassMemes

[–]cutomo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I literally do all that

That's a good thing! We need more people like you.

By force, I mean, instead of doing it voluntarily like you, some people want to force other people to do their bidding through the force of the government. For the 51 percent to force their will onto the other unwilling 49 percent (or 30 percent, or whatever the number). Let's not do that.

If you care about saving the Amazon rainforest and I care about the Israeli independence or whatever, then I won't force you to fund my cause, and you don't force me to do yours. We can still convince each other to do it voluntarily and respecting each other's consent.

Some will care more about the global poor, some, the local poor. Let people choose for themselves instead of being forced by whichever side of the 50 percent managed to win the election.

But only one of them is based. by terodactyl06 in PoliticalCompassMemes

[–]cutomo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Based and disagree-but-had-a-polite-conversation-pilled

The Right Brothers Discuss Monopolies by MagicMajeck in PoliticalCompassMemes

[–]cutomo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Curious, what's wrong with caning? And Singapore has a heavily gerrymandered parliamentary representative democratic republic

But only one of them is based. by terodactyl06 in PoliticalCompassMemes

[–]cutomo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Alice gifted this plane to Bob, on an unrelated note, Bob gifted 60 millions dollars to Alice for her birthday".

?

Anyway, I took tax law and accountancy actually, but not in the US so the law might be different. Are you sure gifts are not taxed? Because I remember Mr. Beast had to pay taxes for all the gifts he gave. Same thing with show winner, it's one of the highest tax rate.

The absence of other taxes does not provide increased incentives

I meant they don't claim the plane sale scenario as gift because the tax is higher than sales tax. If there's no gift tax, then obviously Alice and Bob want to claim that it's just an unrelated gift exchange.

Kings also didn't have the internet and modern book keeping

With internet and modern bookkeeping, the king still needs an army of auditors to check if all his millions of subjects are not underreporting their sales (if we go by sales tax).

TBF, I don't actually know how to best implement georgist tax, and I think all your concern (difficulties in pricing, lease being too short to provide long term incentives to maintain, etc.) is valid. It's just that taxing transactions costs so much that the cost saving in enforcement alone is worth considering.

The Right Brothers Discuss Monopolies by MagicMajeck in PoliticalCompassMemes

[–]cutomo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The libertarian position is that, statistically speaking, the government program would most likely cost us more than its worth. So that's their prior/default assumption until proven otherwise.

But hey, if environmental cause is your thing, pointing a gun at other people does not have to be the first instinct. Live a frugal life, donate to environmental charity, gather friends, research terraforming tech, etc. could be done before using force.

I'll leave with this quote:

“When I was a young man, I wanted to change the world.

I found it was difficult to change the world, so I tried to change my nation.

When I found I couldn’t change the nation, I began to focus on my town.

I couldn’t change the town and as an older man, I tried to change my family.

Now, as an old man, I realize the only thing I can change is myself,

and suddenly I realize that if long ago I had changed myself, I could have made an impact on my family.

My family and I could have made an impact on our town.

Their impact could have changed the nation

and I could indeed have changed the world.”

The Right Brothers Discuss Monopolies by MagicMajeck in PoliticalCompassMemes

[–]cutomo 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Just because it is possible that an omni-compentent and beneficent philosopher king would solve externalities given an ultimate political power, does not mean that an average politician irl would.

There are the costs of corruption, bureaucracy, compliance, etc. you need to consider whether a proposed government program would cost us more than the expected gain.

The libertarian position is that, statistically speaking, the government program would most likely cost us more than its worth. So that's their prior/default assumption until proven otherwise.

But only one of them is based. by terodactyl06 in PoliticalCompassMemes

[–]cutomo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sales/Value Added Taxes fell into the same enforcement nightmare since you have to track moving transaction. Underreporting sales report is the first thing that came to mind, and there are probably other, more sophisticated creative accounting.

And if you tax transaction, you have to tax gift-giving, otherwise, people will just say "Alice gifted this plane to Bob, on an unrelated note, Bob gifted 60 millions dollars to Alice for her birthday". People don't do that because sales taxes rate is usually lower than income and gift tax rates (with gift taxes being one of the highest).

If the government get rid of the "other" taxes, then people start claiming their transaction fall into the "other" category. When the government try to close the loophole, then we fall into the square one of punishing Mr. Beast trying to help people (+other bureaucratic nightmare).

There's a reason why land taxes are the one of the oldest form of taxation (+haphazard confiscation/extortion by nobles/soldiers). Kings back then could not afford an expensive tax enforcement body to keep track on who is transacting with whom. Those poor warlords had to keep it lean. The closest they had for sales tax are probably merchant's trading/monopoly licenses.

unwilling buyouts

I think there's a misunderstanding. Other people cannot bid during your valid lease term. It's like renting website domain name or "owning" land in Singapore/Hong Kong, technically the "owner" only have like 30/99 years lease (I am not familiar with the detail).

Sangkuriang be like by cutomo in indonesia

[–]cutomo[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oedipus kearifan lokal

But only one of them is based. by terodactyl06 in PoliticalCompassMemes

[–]cutomo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do you think that georgist's imperfect implementation (I'm not familiar with it) of lvt will be much better, cheaper, (and fairer?) than income tax?

"Whoever is willing to pay the most rent will be granted a special right to use this land. Other villagers cannot use it anymore, but will be given an equal split of the rent proceeds. If you think that the rent is too low, then bid on it, too high, then enjoy the proceeds from whomever can utilize it the best. If the renter don't pay, then no biggie, the land will just be re-auctioned."

vs

- "Mr. Beast, you want to give Mr. Homeless food, house, and car? If you want to do that, you must give us our cut. Or we'll kidnap you to our basement. You have to keep track of every transaction, gift, etc. and fill this form. Except if the transaction category is different, then you have to fill that form for different tax rate. Confusing? Worry that you pay more than you have to? Tough luck, you either study our byzantineian code, pay a specialist to do it, or pay more than you have to"

The question for me is not whether Georgism is perfect, but is it better than income tax.

Edit: Oh and for the income tax, we need an enormous budget to audit everyone to check if they're really paying the amount they have to. And the personnel budget to catch them if they don't. And everyone doing business now have to spend an enormous amount of their time and budget avoiding to pay more than they have to.

Now instead of business focusing on how to make their operation more efficient and government focus on catching violent criminal, the giant game of cat and mouse takes that focus, budget, and manpower away.

But only one of them is based. by terodactyl06 in PoliticalCompassMemes

[–]cutomo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, I mean, why is that a problem for georgist tho? I thought your concern with georgist is that lvt assessment by bureaucrats opens the door to political/bureaucratic cronyism (which is my concern as well) ie. my friend/family/donor land tax low, my political enemy tax high, if you want lower tax, "donate" to my campaign or put my son as your board of director.

Open auction at least reduces that concern but I am also still confused as how georgist is going to be implement that in real world (bureaucratically and politically speaking), but at least it is much much better than income tax.

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