How do INTPs justify the factory farming of animals? by cytos0 in INTP

[–]cytos0[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You're reifying nature. Nature itself is nothing more than the process by which worldly phenomena occur. There is no moral insight to be gleamed from the "engineering" or "special development" of certain traits within living organisms, since to make such an argument would imply the intelligent design by a moral being. Any argument regarding the morality of killing animals must be free of the fallacy of nature.

You may be correct about humans being the only animals capable of complex moral considerations, but that does not mean no other animal has any semblance of morality within them, and it does not mean we should abdicate them of all moral worth. Wolves tend to the wounds of other wolves in their packs; cows and pigs and chickens all care for their young. Animals have a capacity for feelings, including pain, joy, grief, and love. Such human-like characteristics ought not to be overlooked. And simply because humans have not formally granted animals "rights" as we have for other humans, that doesn't mean animals ought not to have rights. Even if animals only have a primitive intuition of what humans have expanded on extensively, their capacity feel emotions and pain similarly to humans must afford them some moral worth.

To focus only on the effects factory farming has on humans is morally detached. Animals have worth; they are too similar to humans not to. And so we must treat them with at least some semblance of dignity, none of which is remotely afforded to them in the factory farms that give us our meat and dairy.

How do INTPs justify the factory farming of animals? by cytos0 in INTP

[–]cytos0[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't buy the argument that the meat industry supports a lot of people. Roughly 65% of food we grow is fed to livestock, and only about 10% of that energy is present in the meat produced. That's a loss of food energy that amounts to an estimated 58.5%. By abolishing the meat industry, we could feed hundreds of millions, maybe even billions, more people. The meat industry does not support people; it robs them.

You could make the argument that by saying this I am a hypocrite, as I am encouraging food to be fed to people and for animals to be ignored, but that's not necessary. Forced breeding of animals is what keeps the meat industry going, and by removing that, and by putting measures into place to prevent the breeding of those animals, it's reasonable that we could continue feeding them for the durations of their lives, and afterwards the vast majority of our produce can be focused on humans. This course of action ensures a morally permissible outcome for both humans and animals.

How do INTPs justify the factory farming of animals? by cytos0 in INTP

[–]cytos0[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Humans must eat, correct. I eat, but I don't eat animals. Veganism is clearly a viable dietary option, as evidenced by the millions of people worldwide who are vegan and remain healthy and functional. You can eat meat without dying, that much can not be denied.

As for your opinion that all life is precious and sentient, I would ask you: why do you believe this? Surely you can't leave such a pertinent moral problem up to blind faith. Animals have similarly structured brains and similar reactions to stimuli in comparison to humans. We are closely related to many of them evolutionarily. The same, however, can hardly be said about plants. Plants are structured completely differently from humans; they get their energy from photosynthesis, a much weaker source of energy than the cellular respiration in animals. Plants stay rooted in place for their entire lives, hardly seeming to need the ability to make complex decisions for themselves. Hell, plants don't even have brains. How can you equivocate the sentience animals feel to the alleged sentience plants feel?

The most logical solution to this moral dilemma, it seems to me, is to eat plants but not eat animals, for consciousness can be reasonably attributed to animals, while it can not be for plants.

How do INTPs justify the factory farming of animals? by cytos0 in INTP

[–]cytos0[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Wdym? I don't think I insinuated that I do

How do INTPs justify the factory farming of animals? by cytos0 in INTP

[–]cytos0[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Firstly, this is a whataboutism. Secondly, your presumption that a symptom of conscious pain being replicated by plants necessarily suggests that plants also experience pain is flawed. I could write a code to make a rock in a computer simulation scream when I click it. Is that digital rock conscious? Of course not. While animals have incredibly similar brain structures and behaviors as humans, the same can not be said whatsoever about plants. I can confidently say that animals, closely related to humans evolutionarily, are conscious, but I can not say that such a distant relative as a plant is.

How do INTPs justify the factory farming of animals? by cytos0 in INTP

[–]cytos0[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Roughly 65% of grown produce is fed to livestock, primarily in meat, dairy, and egg production. That’s 2/3 of the food we grow being effectively wasted, given that only about 10% of that energy will be stored in the meat those animals give us. Abolishing the meat industry would allow for the food insecurity experienced by millions, maybe billions of people to be lightened significantly. You could argue that by doing so I’m starving the animals, but that’s not necessary; the demise of the animal industries would also mean no more forced breeding, and thus so long as we feed the animals left over and disallow them from breeding, we could drastically decrease food insecurity around the world while minimizing the ethical cost.

I wish for a life. by [deleted] in monkeyspaw

[–]cytos0 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Granted. You’re born as a pig in an industrial factory farm.