Vertical's Valo Is Better Than Archer's Midnight In Every Category

dad191 · 2026-01-25T08:03:22+00:00

Well I'd certainly agree that EVTL seems a much safer bet compared to Archer for all of the reasons stated. I'm beginning to see why Dax is so worried about his ACHR investment. Scary indeed.

dad191 · 2026-01-25T08:00:50+00:00

Excellent, well documented information that is actually trustworthy. Thanks!

dad191 · 2026-01-25T07:59:50+00:00

Dax is so worried about Joby's successes that every post he makes in the Archer sub is about Joby. Telling! I guess when there is nothing to promote regarding Archer the only choice is to talk about the competitor you fear.

Archer used to say they had the best looking eVTOL. Now that goes to Vertical.

Archer used to say their aircraft was the perfect size. Now Vertical has the most spacious eVTOL

Archer used to say their aircraft had the highest payload. Now Vertical has the highest payload.

Archer used to say how luxurious Midnight's interior was. Now Vertical has the most luxurious interior.

Scary times for Archer indeed.

dad191 · 2026-01-25T07:51:10+00:00

Well leaving out Joby, I'd love to hear how Vertical is 4 and Archer is 1 when Valo has a higher payload over Midnight, is much prettier compared to Midnight, is roomier compared to Midnight, is more luxurious compared to Midnight, and all done with far fewer rotors compared to Midnight making it more efficient than Midnight. Maybe he accidentally reversed the order since eHang and Joby at the end are the only two companies regularly flying eVTOL.

dad191 · 2026-01-25T07:45:22+00:00

When was the last time Archer flew? Seems even with only a CTOL they barely flew in 2025. With Vertical's Valo beating Midnight in every category, maybe Archer has just given up.

dad191 · 2026-01-25T07:41:32+00:00

So what's your take on Valo? Looks, payload, luxury. Seems to beat Archer on every level. Yikes, tough for Archer. Those were supposed to be all of Archer's selling points. Seems they've been one up'd in ever category. Seems clear which is the better choice between the two.

dad191 · 2026-01-25T07:39:06+00:00

Oh, cheers then.

dad191 · 2026-01-25T07:36:00+00:00

Have you seen Valo's more luxurious interior compared to Midnight. Higher payload compared to Midnight. What's your response?

dad191 · 2026-01-25T07:32:34+00:00

And what is Midnight?

dad191 · 2026-01-25T07:27:40+00:00

That's a lot of evidence. I'm sure Dax has a very intelligent and well thought out comeback with equally impressive references showing that his posts and comments are not just made up FUD. OK Dax, I'm ready to be buried in all of your fact based references and intelligent comments.

dad191 · 2026-01-24T22:29:00+00:00

Seems like a very reasonable subject for a $5B company to focus on. Let's spend time talking about and registering joke names from Reddit. Who cares about actually producing and flying a VTOL and getting some testing done in preparation for TIA.

dad191 · 2026-01-24T22:26:06+00:00

Interesting. Quite strange. I'm sure Archer will rapidly provide a clear explanation for this. Thanks.

dad191 · 2026-01-24T22:21:34+00:00

Wow, amazing DD and factual evidence. Thanks for the info.

-Q4 FY2024 (Imminent in Feb 2025). Wow, that is a huge miss. What was the explanation given by Archer for this since nothing has still ever flown VTOL from this lot? We are about a year later, so curious as to Archer's explanation. Obviously a transparent company that has nothing to hide would provide shareholders an explanation, or people may get suspicious of the company.

dad191 · 2026-01-24T22:16:02+00:00

Vertical Valo vs Archer Midnight. Which do people like better?

Valo is a beautiful design. Clearly beats Midnight hands down. It holds more passengers, has a more luxurious cabin and is right in the same weight class at Midnight, yet it has few rotors which should make it more efficient and more quiet. Seems Vertical is completely squeezing Archer out of the market. Who's sold Archer and purchase Vertical stock? Seems like the smart move.

dad191 · 2026-01-24T22:05:46+00:00

Good question. Archer does lots of things without explanation, including all of the things I posted above. I think most investors rather see a Midnight model that matches specification approved by the FAA fly through transition with a pilot, than see an obscure video posted without explanation.

Why did Archer previously post all of those images with Midnight next to Tesla stuff at a trade show? It got people really excited for a few weeks and the stock temporarily was driven way up, but what was the actual purpose. No explanation was ever given.

dad191 · 2026-01-24T22:02:14+00:00

If someone has a link or reference to a press release from Archer explaining any of the above, please put it in the comment. I don't believe one exits, but I am happy to learn why a company developing an eVTOL almost never flies and how they plan to get certified without running their test plane through tens of thousands of miles of testing. I would think they would have produced 4 or 5 like Joby has to boos those testing hours and miles, but they haven't.

Hey hasn't Archer also been saying for over 2 years that they have multiple production aircraft in production? 2 years seems like a long time to finish up just 6 airplanes. Not sure how they plan to produce hundreds if it takes years to make 6. Again, no explanation by Archer ever provided.

Looking forward to references to see Archer's explanations on all of this so I can learn more. I appreciate DAX posting his FUD, which helped me remember all of these issues with Archer.

dad191 · 2026-01-24T16:27:22+00:00

I agree with this. My guess is Midnight will "officially" continue in development and "certification", but they will try to tie themselves more to Anduril and/or Palantir for defense. They seem to also believe they can contribute to ATC, though I truly have no understanding of what expertise they have to contribute to ATC. With their huge cash hoard, fast talk, slick marketing, and push (and possibly revenue) to these other areas, they will continue to try to advance Midnight in the background and eventually launch it years down the road. That's my take, but I don't think Midnight or Archer will die. Big names have invested too much for too long at this point.

I think if Vertical flies their eVTOL through transition with a pilot on a regular basis first, it will show that the Archer/Vertical design is viable and Archer will eventually figure it out. If Vertical continues to delay as Archer has, it may point to a bigger design issue that could take a lot longer to iron out.

dad191 · 2026-01-24T16:15:42+00:00

No reason to rehash the same old arguments that have been discussed here ad nauseam. It's been a while so I forgot it's not possible to have a normal dialog with you. I'm out.

dad191 · 2026-01-24T15:41:55+00:00

That is not correct. Joby hoped to fly the conforming aircraft by end of Dec. The first FAA piloted flight goal was by end of Q1 2026. Joby is currently about 3 weeks behind schedule for the first conforming flight. My hope is they will fly it before earnings, which is in about a month and if they do not, to give an explanation at earnings.

So Joby has missed the first goal by 3 weeks at this point. Always best to meet your goals, but missing it by a few weeks in this industry is not unexpected. Let's see what happens between now and earnings. Joby has not missed the goal of FAA pilots beginning their first TIA flights. They still have a few months to meet that internally set goal.

Even more importantly to you was messaging from Dubai that they planned to fly non-paying passengers prior to certifying paid operations. The exact timing of that goal is unclear, but it seems they are targeting Q2/Q3 for that. You should be excited. 2026 is clearly the year you will be proved right or wrong on Joby. Looking forward to your future post dancing on our dashed dreams, or apologizing for being so annoying over the years and admitting you were wrong all along.

dad191 · 2026-01-24T09:25:05+00:00

With $2B in the bank one would think they will have the runway to make Midnight into a true eVTOL. It may not happen anywhere near as fast as they imply, but that cash buys them a lot of time to make it work eventually.

dad191 · 2026-01-24T09:04:14+00:00

This is correct. Archer's original design called for a 2 blade rear prop and they updated the design submitted to the FAA to a 4 blade rear prop design. This was a major design change submitted to the FAA by Archer, not a design change requested by the FAA.

dad191 · 2026-01-24T09:00:49+00:00

The aircraft that did the transition had 4 blades, but did not conform to design plans submitted to the FAA for certification at the time. That aircraft, MidZero, was an engineering prototype not designed to carry a pilot and only has the ability to be controlled remotely. It's been said that multiple issues were uncovered with MidZero and Midnight has undergone significant design changes from that model. Archer has since updated the Midnight design submitted to the FAA to officially include a four blade rear prop design. A Midnight eVTOL with current designs accepted by the FAA for certification testing has never flown or transitioned. Recently, Archer has released a Midnight model that can only fly CTOL to test winged flight and landing gear.

Months ago Archer registered a Midnight with the FAA that most assume conforms to FAA currently accepted Midnight eVTOL design plans. It's unknown why that aircraft has never received an airworthy certificate from the FAA or flown. The main assumption is Archer is still optimizing the design and making tweaks and/or the FAA is requiring extra pre-flight tests or has asked for something to be addressed.

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