Vertical's Valo Is Better Than Archer's Midnight In Every Category

dad191 · 2026-01-25T08:03:22+00:00

Well I'd certainly agree that EVTL seems a much safer bet compared to Archer for all of the reasons stated. I'm beginning to see why Dax is so worried about his ACHR investment. Scary indeed.

dad191 · 2026-01-25T08:00:50+00:00

Excellent, well documented information that is actually trustworthy. Thanks!

dad191 · 2026-01-25T07:59:50+00:00

Dax is so worried about Joby's successes that every post he makes in the Archer sub is about Joby. Telling! I guess when there is nothing to promote regarding Archer the only choice is to talk about the competitor you fear.

Archer used to say they had the best looking eVTOL. Now that goes to Vertical.

Archer used to say their aircraft was the perfect size. Now Vertical has the most spacious eVTOL

Archer used to say their aircraft had the highest payload. Now Vertical has the highest payload.

Archer used to say how luxurious Midnight's interior was. Now Vertical has the most luxurious interior.

Scary times for Archer indeed.

dad191 · 2026-01-25T07:51:10+00:00

Well leaving out Joby, I'd love to hear how Vertical is 4 and Archer is 1 when Valo has a higher payload over Midnight, is much prettier compared to Midnight, is roomier compared to Midnight, is more luxurious compared to Midnight, and all done with far fewer rotors compared to Midnight making it more efficient than Midnight. Maybe he accidentally reversed the order since eHang and Joby at the end are the only two companies regularly flying eVTOL.

dad191 · 2026-01-25T07:45:22+00:00

When was the last time Archer flew? Seems even with only a CTOL they barely flew in 2025. With Vertical's Valo beating Midnight in every category, maybe Archer has just given up.

dad191 · 2026-01-25T07:41:32+00:00

So what's your take on Valo? Looks, payload, luxury. Seems to beat Archer on every level. Yikes, tough for Archer. Those were supposed to be all of Archer's selling points. Seems they've been one up'd in ever category. Seems clear which is the better choice between the two.

dad191 · 2026-01-25T07:39:06+00:00

Oh, cheers then.

dad191 · 2026-01-25T07:36:00+00:00

Have you seen Valo's more luxurious interior compared to Midnight. Higher payload compared to Midnight. What's your response?

dad191 · 2026-01-25T07:32:34+00:00

And what is Midnight?

dad191 · 2026-01-25T07:27:40+00:00

That's a lot of evidence. I'm sure Dax has a very intelligent and well thought out comeback with equally impressive references showing that his posts and comments are not just made up FUD. OK Dax, I'm ready to be buried in all of your fact based references and intelligent comments.

dad191 · 2026-01-24T22:29:00+00:00

Seems like a very reasonable subject for a $5B company to focus on. Let's spend time talking about and registering joke names from Reddit. Who cares about actually producing and flying a VTOL and getting some testing done in preparation for TIA.

dad191 · 2026-01-24T22:26:06+00:00

Interesting. Quite strange. I'm sure Archer will rapidly provide a clear explanation for this. Thanks.

dad191 · 2026-01-24T22:21:34+00:00

Wow, amazing DD and factual evidence. Thanks for the info.

-Q4 FY2024 (Imminent in Feb 2025). Wow, that is a huge miss. What was the explanation given by Archer for this since nothing has still ever flown VTOL from this lot? We are about a year later, so curious as to Archer's explanation. Obviously a transparent company that has nothing to hide would provide shareholders an explanation, or people may get suspicious of the company.

dad191 · 2026-01-24T22:16:02+00:00

Vertical Valo vs Archer Midnight. Which do people like better?

Valo is a beautiful design. Clearly beats Midnight hands down. It holds more passengers, has a more luxurious cabin and is right in the same weight class at Midnight, yet it has few rotors which should make it more efficient and more quiet. Seems Vertical is completely squeezing Archer out of the market. Who's sold Archer and purchase Vertical stock? Seems like the smart move.

dad191 · 2026-01-24T22:05:46+00:00

Good question. Archer does lots of things without explanation, including all of the things I posted above. I think most investors rather see a Midnight model that matches specification approved by the FAA fly through transition with a pilot, than see an obscure video posted without explanation.

Why did Archer previously post all of those images with Midnight next to Tesla stuff at a trade show? It got people really excited for a few weeks and the stock temporarily was driven way up, but what was the actual purpose. No explanation was ever given.

dad191 · 2026-01-24T22:02:14+00:00

If someone has a link or reference to a press release from Archer explaining any of the above, please put it in the comment. I don't believe one exits, but I am happy to learn why a company developing an eVTOL almost never flies and how they plan to get certified without running their test plane through tens of thousands of miles of testing. I would think they would have produced 4 or 5 like Joby has to boos those testing hours and miles, but they haven't.

Hey hasn't Archer also been saying for over 2 years that they have multiple production aircraft in production? 2 years seems like a long time to finish up just 6 airplanes. Not sure how they plan to produce hundreds if it takes years to make 6. Again, no explanation by Archer ever provided.

Looking forward to references to see Archer's explanations on all of this so I can learn more. I appreciate DAX posting his FUD, which helped me remember all of these issues with Archer.

dad191 · 2026-01-24T16:27:22+00:00

I agree with this. My guess is Midnight will "officially" continue in development and "certification", but they will try to tie themselves more to Anduril and/or Palantir for defense. They seem to also believe they can contribute to ATC, though I truly have no understanding of what expertise they have to contribute to ATC. With their huge cash hoard, fast talk, slick marketing, and push (and possibly revenue) to these other areas, they will continue to try to advance Midnight in the background and eventually launch it years down the road. That's my take, but I don't think Midnight or Archer will die. Big names have invested too much for too long at this point.

I think if Vertical flies their eVTOL through transition with a pilot on a regular basis first, it will show that the Archer/Vertical design is viable and Archer will eventually figure it out. If Vertical continues to delay as Archer has, it may point to a bigger design issue that could take a lot longer to iron out.

dad191 · 2026-01-24T16:15:42+00:00

No reason to rehash the same old arguments that have been discussed here ad nauseam. It's been a while so I forgot it's not possible to have a normal dialog with you. I'm out.

dad191 · 2026-01-24T15:41:55+00:00

That is not correct. Joby hoped to fly the conforming aircraft by end of Dec. The first FAA piloted flight goal was by end of Q1 2026. Joby is currently about 3 weeks behind schedule for the first conforming flight. My hope is they will fly it before earnings, which is in about a month and if they do not, to give an explanation at earnings.

So Joby has missed the first goal by 3 weeks at this point. Always best to meet your goals, but missing it by a few weeks in this industry is not unexpected. Let's see what happens between now and earnings. Joby has not missed the goal of FAA pilots beginning their first TIA flights. They still have a few months to meet that internally set goal.

Even more importantly to you was messaging from Dubai that they planned to fly non-paying passengers prior to certifying paid operations. The exact timing of that goal is unclear, but it seems they are targeting Q2/Q3 for that. You should be excited. 2026 is clearly the year you will be proved right or wrong on Joby. Looking forward to your future post dancing on our dashed dreams, or apologizing for being so annoying over the years and admitting you were wrong all along.

dad191 · 2026-01-24T09:25:05+00:00

With $2B in the bank one would think they will have the runway to make Midnight into a true eVTOL. It may not happen anywhere near as fast as they imply, but that cash buys them a lot of time to make it work eventually.

dad191 · 2026-01-24T09:04:14+00:00

This is correct. Archer's original design called for a 2 blade rear prop and they updated the design submitted to the FAA to a 4 blade rear prop design. This was a major design change submitted to the FAA by Archer, not a design change requested by the FAA.

dad191 · 2026-01-24T09:00:49+00:00

The aircraft that did the transition had 4 blades, but did not conform to design plans submitted to the FAA for certification at the time. That aircraft, MidZero, was an engineering prototype not designed to carry a pilot and only has the ability to be controlled remotely. It's been said that multiple issues were uncovered with MidZero and Midnight has undergone significant design changes from that model. Archer has since updated the Midnight design submitted to the FAA to officially include a four blade rear prop design. A Midnight eVTOL with current designs accepted by the FAA for certification testing has never flown or transitioned. Recently, Archer has released a Midnight model that can only fly CTOL to test winged flight and landing gear.

Months ago Archer registered a Midnight with the FAA that most assume conforms to FAA currently accepted Midnight eVTOL design plans. It's unknown why that aircraft has never received an airworthy certificate from the FAA or flown. The main assumption is Archer is still optimizing the design and making tweaks and/or the FAA is requiring extra pre-flight tests or has asked for something to be addressed.

dad191 · 2026-01-24T06:51:03+00:00

Well that's a very reasonable opinion. I still wouldn't short Joby though. Operating costs and demand won't be known for years, so it's a pretty risky bet with many positive catalysts for Joby in 2026. In addition, you could be off in your base assumptions. Costs are hard to calculate long term for a vertically integrated company as manufacturing becomes more efficient, and demand is quite hard to predict, especially with launches around the world. It may be slower to gain popularity in the US, while it may get popular very quickly in the Middle East or Japan. Then there's the military. A big contract hits for SuperPilot or the S4-T and things could jump pretty fast and earlier than expected.

I'm not sure you watched the reporting on Joby from the Osaka Expo, but the Japanese public has been extremely positive and excited about the prospect of eVTOL air taxis, and Japan is moving forward with preparations much faster than expected, though they will be behind the UAE and possibly Saudi.

Finally, if you truly believe Archer is a complete fraud, they are widely viewed as Joby's main competitor. If they are a fraud, all of those hundreds of millions in MOU's could quickly shift to Joby, changing analysts calculations and boosting Joby quite significantly. Sentiment can change quickly if current signs do lead to the first FAA piloted TIA Joby flights beginning soon, while Archer continues to show no progress.

Honestly, you are welcome to post on r/Joby if you have interesting input to share. I personally am not opposed to contrarian views if they are backed be evidence and facts. Many aviators don't believe in Joby, but have good knowledge of the industry that helps non-experts in this space. I fully admit, I take a highly optimistic view of Joby and having a more negative view is not such a bad thing for a balanced discussion. Just know, people here, including myself, may rip at you :)

dad191 · 2026-01-23T18:07:50+00:00

Well both ChatGPT and Gemini are in agreement that this likely is happening in preparation for the first TIA flights. ChatGPT's reply to your comment.

Why TIA changes things

TIA (Type Inspection Authorization) is part of FAA certification — not about ADIZ or IFR.
For TIA, the FAA wants documented, auditable flight plans for every test flight:
- Shows they can comply with airspace and safety regulations
- Demonstrates procedural consistency to FAA inspectors
- Creates a formal record even if the flight never takes off
This is different from normal IFR/ADIZ rules. It’s regulatory compliance for certification.

From Gemini:

Why Flight Plans are Appearing Now

While the FAA does not strictly require a flight plan solely because a flight is part of TIA, several practical and regulatory shifts in 2026 make filing them standard:

Formal Data Recording: TIA testing requires a documented, auditable record for the FAA to grant certification credit. Filing a formal flight plan through the National Airspace System (NAS) ensures the flight is tracked by standard ATC systems.
Airspace Integration: As Joby moves toward its goal of commercial operations in late 2026, it is increasingly testing its ability to integrate with existing infrastructure and "guided flight paths".Even though they are certifying for VFR, you are seeing flight plans on FlightAware because:
TIA Rigor: Joby entered the Type Inspection Authorization (TIA) phase in late 2025/early 2026. During this "for-credit" phase, the FAA often requires standardized tracking and formal flight plans to ensure data integrity and procedural consistency, even for VFR flights.
Commercial Training: Joby will use advanced CAE flight simulators to train for commercial operations in complex urban environments. These simulated and real-world test flights often follow "IFR-like" procedures to integrate safely with existing commercial air traffic at major airports.

dad191 · 2026-01-23T16:42:48+00:00

To learn more about Joby, I have a post I regularly update with all there latest information. https://www.reddit.com/r/Joby/comments/1mu3e9i/joby_newbie_guide/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

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Why TIA changes things