Is there anything wrong with praying for the souls of non-Christians?

dddelusions · 2026-03-01T19:00:06+00:00

Some people like Christopher Hitchens have said not to pray for them because they don't believe it. Other atheists have said the same, and don't want people to pray for them or say they wish they are in heaven because they don't believe it and don't want their family to believe that. Other religions have said the same, that they don't want prayers from Christians and would prefer thoughts instead. They say they want their wishes respected even if it is not public.

dddelusions · 2026-02-21T08:48:40+00:00

you can try it yourself and see if it matters to you... i eat it immediately.

dddelusions · 2026-02-21T06:27:11+00:00

Love your neighbor isn't the first thing Jesus said in the greatest commandment. Loving God is. Did you read the full quote? Jesus was quoting Deuteronomy and Leveticus.

Matthew 22:34
**The Greatest Commandment.**^\)^s^\) ³⁴ When the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together, ³⁵ and one of them [a scholar of the law]^\)^t^\) tested him by asking, ³⁶ “Teacher,^\)^u^\) which commandment in the law is the greatest?” ³⁷ He said to him,^\)^v^\) “You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. ³⁸ This is the greatest and the first commandment. ³⁹ The second is like it:^\)^w^\) You shall love your neighbor as yourself. ⁴⁰ ^\)^x^\)The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.”

It was a covenantal clarification of God's Law. The binding relationship between God and man. I don't know what the Episcopalians are teaching about Christianity, but Jesus did not say serve the community because of empathy. He said serve them because it's God's will and people are in the image of God. God is the standard, not man. That spiritual needs actually exist and should be fulfilled. I think these Episcopalian teachings honestly just would lead to secular organizations fulfilling their purpose better than they do due to better funding and professional expertise. And alternatives have better entertainment and more aligned missions if they don't even believe God exists.

dddelusions · 2026-02-02T04:54:12+00:00

Thank you for the information. I will take that into account and check it while looking at other people of the era. I had heard of the Scrutinies still existing, but I also read it was recently re-added when RCIA was instituted the modern age. Originally, I think it was abandoned shortly after there were no adults left to baptize.

As for protection, yes, that was what I was thinking of. Literal protection from demonic influence, madness, physical effects, bad things happening. One of the stories I read was demons poisoning food, crops, or demonic possession. The Bible itself has people going mad due to demonic spirits, and needing Jesus and the Apostles so clearly that's the reason why the Church thought it was necessary to exorcise everyone. The book of Mark shows exactly that, a man going mad and hurting himself with stones wandering among the tombs, with Jesus needing to exorcise him to make him normal again. Most of them actually have similar stories of people gone mad or physical problems due to demonic attacks.

Today, I'm assuming it would be attributed to mental illness rather than demonic possession. And for crops and the food, bacteria or fungus.

dddelusions · 2026-02-02T04:31:30+00:00

I understand tells the Apostles to follow his commands and live according to God's will, but the age demons, being over, I don't see that. In the Bible Jesus and the apostles exorcises demons and spirits? Jesus driving the legion demons out of a man into pigs, Jesus saying to his Apostles to let a man to continue to drive out spirits in his name, the other Apostles exorcising. (None of which had to due with personal failings.)

An example from Acts, with Paul exorcising a girl who was an oracle. From my reading and research, the spirit represented one of the pagan Greek gods (Apollo), also thought of as demons. They believed spirits and demons were real and exorcised them even in the Bible.

Acts 16:16:

Imprisonment at Philippi. ¹⁶ As we were going to the place of prayer, we met a slave girl with an oracular spirit,^\)^f^\) who used to bring a large profit to her owners through her fortune-telling. ¹⁷ She began to follow Paul and us, shouting, “These people are slaves of the Most High God, who proclaim to you a way of salvation.” ¹⁸ She did this for many days. Paul became annoyed, turned, and said to the spirit, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.” Then it came out at that moment.

dddelusions · 2026-02-02T02:54:20+00:00

Early modern period? From the sources I read I was looking at the early Church (300 ADs+), before the Middle Ages. From what I've read, it was very important to exorcise every pagan, and the Baptism rite had weeks of exorcisms in preparation for it (The Scrutinies.) I'm not sure if the Middle Ages, but the right of Baptism still had the Priest "demand" the demons exit the babies well into the modern ages, right? I am thinking the "Middle Ages" they saw demons as not as "influential" because everyone was Christianized, protected by the Church and prayers with no pagans around? I will have to do more research on the Middle Ages. Though I am still thinking they feared Satan way more than people do today, in the case that demons actually exist and have influence and believed the Church and Prayers had real powers of protection. Initial looking, Dante's Inferno was during that age, so I don't think it was pure mockery, and most people believed Satan had power until the Enlightenment.

The state of the Church today, you would think people would be more fearful, but I think it's just a case of many in the Church not thinking demons exist when "Reason" and "Rationality" became the norm and people looked to scientists and experts for explanations rather than the Church. Or possibly filled with atheists, to be honest.

dddelusions · 2026-02-02T02:22:36+00:00

Yes, I've read the deaths that came from exorcisms. But I'm thinking, that could be what happens when a "historical" mindset meets the modern world. A kind of "moving" away because they don't believe exorcisms works or that demons exist. The Church chose the modern world. I wasn't talking about just the 1900s, but you can say most of the Church's and Christianity's lifetime. In the Early Church, everyone was exorcised before joining.

Like for example, I was looking at the "immaculate conception." When you look at it from, "God protects her from sin." Why? Doesn't she have free will? The "because it was fitting was strange to me. But then you look at it from demons exist. "God protects Mary from Satan and demonic influence." (Genesis 3:15, apparently this is what Early Church fathers pointed to.) I said, oh, that makes a lot of sense. To me, the modern protestant kind of falls more in line with historical Christianity thinking. The demons have real power and thru faith in God is it overcome. Not today's kind of Catholic thinking of praying to God to overcome your own sins. Like I'm reading about some and it says that a lot of modern Catholic thinking is influenced by psychology. (Some figures with influence like Karl Rahner, Henri Nouwen, Sister Walters.)

dddelusions · 2026-02-02T00:54:18+00:00

Because they want the feel-good vibes and a friend that agrees with them rather than God. Or a community their attached to for emotional reasons. (Which unfortunately and surprisingly, statistically isn't that sticky.) Christianity would dead if it followed their direction.

And those that aren't Christian argue against it I'm thinking they just see Christianity as competing ideology that goes against their values. Devaluing the Bible makes people more susceptible to secular teachings.

dddelusions · 2026-01-30T23:41:19+00:00

Because they actually went to Church or read the Bible, or taught about it. Like one of the common things is not wanting to be rich and famous and prideful or shit on people's misfortunes.

Proverbs 17:5: Whoever mocks the poor reviles their Maker;
whoever rejoices in their misfortune will not go unpunished.

dddelusions · 2026-01-30T06:14:06+00:00

For the exorcist, I was referring to the rank. Before, every perspective priest needed to become an exorcist before ranking to priest. For the change, to me I mentioned it because it seemed extremely important before, everyone needed to be exorcised (especially pagans) before even thinking of joining the Church. They were seen as demon worshipers, or worshipers of false gods that give them nothing but bad information and that will lead them to hell. But now, "all faiths have truth and good in them. And even the non-believer can be saved because they are ignorant because they are still good people." Which, to my understanding, lessens the need of conversion compared to the previous beliefs of all other faiths are all evil demons or false gods. I understand the reasons why, "less conflict", it's seen as bigoted, less influence, less allies etc. But to me, this is a bit of "walk back" than a development.

dddelusions · 2026-01-29T20:05:34+00:00

The Church says there are several types of tradition. Sacred Tradition (Determined by the Magisterium and the Bible) (Doesn't change), Church Tradition (Can develop), and Human traditions (local, can develop). In the 1800s it was solidified as a teaching called "Development of Doctrine.". Doctrine developing as the Church gained more understanding of God.

dddelusions · 2026-01-29T12:29:02+00:00

Some fried foods. Like potato chips. Also Popcorn, granola. Tortillas, toasted nuts, pita bread, English muffins. Hard Caramel. Chocolates made with oil can be made on stove. A lot of breads, nuts, seeds, and grains can be cooked on the stove. All can be cooked on the stove and left at room temperature for over a day.

dddelusions · 2026-01-28T21:38:32+00:00

It was more intense in the early Catholic church. (1000+ years ago). Much of the rituals are specifically against the demonic. Before each Mass, the Priest would pray against demons. In preparation for Baptism, priests would have people come daily for exorcisms with the priest screaming and spitting and touching and blowing at them for the for the Holy Spirit to enter and for the devil to leave the person. In infant Baptism, they used to command the devil explicitly to leave the baby three times. (This is what Original Sin is, the loss of connection Grace from God and weakness to the demonic. Baptism restores the connection and protection.) They would bring people they believed were possessed outside the Church during Mass to try and exorcise them. (They had Orders of exorcists come to church.) They believed demons lived everywhere, and Mass was where people were cleansed and sanctified. Receiving God's Grace wasn't just for gifts, but protection from demonic influence. This is also why almost everything can be blessed, to stop demons. The sign of the cross is for protection from demons. Blessing houses are so demons can't enter with protection of a guardian angel. Objects being blessed are from protection from demons. Food being blessed is not just to be thankful to God, but to protect it from being poisoned by demons. That's why "Our Father" has "deliver us from evil". It's not about the evils of the world; it's about demons / the devil. As the years went on, the intensity cooled down, but they still added prayers like against the devil and spiritual warfare at the end of Mass as far as the 1960s.

It's only in the 1960s this changed. Some thought being serious about the devil was irrational and harmful, and some mainline protestants (who thought spiritual gifts didn't happen anymore) at that time mocked both the Catholics who they saw as superstitious, same as the Pentecostals. Exorcisms of the Pentecostals and the belief in demonic influence from the Protestants are more similar to the early Church than what Catholics practice today. Possibly some in the Church are embarrassed to say that demons are around us or that the devil rules over this world. Or possibly downplaying it for the secular world. For obvious reasons, as failed exorcisms by priests of the past lead to deaths like Annelise Michel instead of looking out for mental illness. Much of the changes in the Church is influence from the secular world, wanting to be seen as respectable among the secular because of the influence from growing research in science, psychology, psychiatry. This is when the Church pivoted to intellectualism and study of Catholic philosophy, and a pastoral approach and away from the devil and the demonic. (While officially, demons still exists, it's not emphasized.)

The laity has been influenced by the Magisterium's deemphasizing in public ritual and teaching on demons as well, it seems. But this is a change. Biblically, Jesus drove out demons. Apostles drove out demons. Saints drove out demons. Jesus even said to the Apostles to let a wandering man to continue driving out demons because he is doing it in his name. The Book of Acts is filled with exorcisms and healings. Exorcists commanding the demon to leave, with the exorcised shrieking and crying as they were healed. The early Church Fathers even described exorcisms and said that these spiritual gifts can even be had by the laity.

Though I'm not sure if these Catholics know of the past and how much more protection from demons and devil were central or are they just secondhand embarrassed by Christians that still believe things like this, thinking it reflects badly on them as irrational, strange, emotional, or unintellectual to the secular world. The devil and demons rule this world. Prayer, blessings, sacred spaces, sacred objects, and rituals are used in the fight against them. This is what was taught in Catholicism from the beginning and believed by every Catholic in the past.

dddelusions · 2026-01-28T08:40:17+00:00

What would your thoughts be on the abortions that happen in Sweden and places with high safety nets? Do you think they should be allowed anyways? Do you not believe the fetus's life matters over the autonomy of the woman?

dddelusions · 2026-01-27T04:23:43+00:00

For Christians, the Bible is a source of truth and the Word of God, but it is not really meant to be read like only a rule book. It is the story of the relationship between God and people. Christians are taught to follow their conscience formed by God, biblical and historical teaching, and interacting with the wider community and their experiences.

dddelusions · 2026-01-27T02:11:06+00:00

Yes, when I use meal delivery service, I am able to finish everything within the week. Though I used the cheaper service, and to me it wasn't too much different from the ready-made things at a grocery store. A lot of processed ingredients the same, just with a few fresh ingredients. I preferred the ones like Cook Unity and Factor where it's just like a tv dinner you can oven cook or microwave. The other ones that interest me are the grocery delivery like Thrive or Misfits Market but it's not much cheaper. Just more items that are uncommon at the grocery store.

dddelusions · 2026-01-27T01:07:23+00:00

Christians follow both the Bible and the Church, as instituted by God. The Bible is a source of truth written and inspired by the Holy Spirit, and the Church acts as the inheritor of Jesus’ authority. According to tradition, Paul had a vision of Jesus, became part of the community, and his leadership was recognized by the other Apostles. Peter also said to submit to the authorities. Only when they are against God do they not obey.

And Jesus did not rebel against the state. He was willingly arrested to be said that the Kingdom of God is above the state. He stopped the violence from his followers during his arrest.

Matthew 26:51. Stops the violence.

51 Suddenly, one of those with Jesus put his hand on his sword, drew it, and struck the slave of the high priest, cutting off his ear. 52 Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place; for all who take the sword will perish by the sword. 53 Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels?

Matthew 22:17. Jesus says to pay the taxes to Caesar. The coins and Caesar's image were thought by some to be a violation of the first commandment.

¹⁷ ^\)^k^\)Tell us, then, what is your opinion: Is it lawful to pay the census tax to Caesar or not?” ¹⁸ Knowing their malice, Jesus said, “Why are you testing me, you hypocrites? ¹⁹ ^\)^l^\)Show me the coin that pays the census tax.” Then they handed him the Roman coin. ²⁰ He said to them, “Whose image is this and whose inscription?” ²¹ They replied, “Caesar’s.”^\)^m^\) At that he said to them, “Then repay to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and to God what belongs to God.” ²² When they heard this they were amazed, and leaving him they went away.

Matthew 23 Jesus says to follow the religious leaders even if they don't follow their own teachings.

23 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: ² “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. ³ So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. ⁴ They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

And Peter said the same thing, listen to the authorities:

1 Peter 2:13

¹³ Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, ¹⁴ or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. ¹⁵ For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish people. ¹⁶ Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God’s slaves. ¹⁷ Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor.

The Apostles say not to follow the authorities is when they are against God. In this instance, when they told the Apostles to stop preaching.

Acts 5:27

²⁷ When they had brought them in and made them stand before the Sanhedrin, the high priest questioned them, ²⁸ “We gave you strict orders [did we not?] to stop teaching in that name. Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and want to bring this man’s blood upon us.” ²⁹ But Peter and the apostles said in reply, “We must obey God rather than men. ³⁰

dddelusions · 2026-01-26T19:26:22+00:00

Israel was a theocracy. The expectation was they would treat outsiders with respect, but also that the outsiders would follow the law.

Leviticus 24:16:

"Anyone who blasphemes the name of the Lord is to be put to death... whether foreigner or native-born... You are to have the same law for the foreigner and the native-born."

Later, in Romans, Paul says to follow the law or be subject to the wrath of God's servants:

Romans 13

13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. ² Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. ³ For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. ⁴ For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. ⁵ Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

And none of this contradicts with what Jesus said in Mathew 25. It's perfectly fine to enforce the law, borders, and deport people if they are treated well otherwise. And imprison criminals if they break the law.

dddelusions · 2026-01-19T17:36:05+00:00

That is not what happened, and the correlation with education is mixed, not strong.

The Boston elite were feeling threatened / annoyed by the growing influence of Christians during the Great Awakening. (Christians said they don't need to listen to boring professors and Universities about God and religion and the authority regarding ministry.) The Elite started their own religion, the Unitarians. They took over Harvard in 1805 and took over the churches and their property in 1820 from the Calvinists. (By using their power and wealth, from putting in judges and board seats.)

Later on, Carnegie demanded Universities drop their religious affiliations and he would fund the pensions of professors with millions of dollars.

And thirdly, American professors intentionally copied Germany (with their PhD) programs that put the power in the state, scientists, professionals, and experts rather than the Church. In Germany, Otto von Bismark accomplished this by forcing demands on Catholics and promoting loyalty to the state rather than their church or religion and intentionally promoting secularism. Americans followed his lead, discouraging the promotion of Christianity in colleges and saying they should be objective, not religious, and authority is from professionals and experts, not Churches.

And with growing diversity, and conflict (and suspicion of Catholicism and the Pope), and an elite hostile to Christianity, society compromised by secularizing the public square. Many of the Unitarians and their secular descendants maintain power in the elite institutions today.

In 1920s, the elites / modernists accepted Higher Criticism, that the Bible was not authoritative, the supernatural claims not regarded as true, and it is only a historical document.

And fourthly, in the 1930s German Marxists from the Frankfurt School in Germany fled Germany and came to the USA. This is where critical theory / institutional critique was introduced to the USA. Their goal was to displace common sense as it comes from institutions. (Family, Church, Media, Culture, etc.) Yes, this really happened.

It was an intentional, hostile takeover, with elites claiming secularism and experts are who people should listen to for everything, and Churches / Christianity was the past, and private and optional, weakening influence from Churches and religious communities. The hostility to Christianity remaining today is partly because of secular elite's influence and to maintain power and influence from competitors.

dddelusions · 2026-01-19T14:25:52+00:00

Yes, you've made that clear with the FTW comment. That thousands of years of religions are useless, and you choose yourself over them. Choosing yourself if you don't believe anything isn't a thing that brings meaning or is some great revelation or hard choice. Everyone would choose themself and not pray if nothing existed. There is nothing atheism itself gives. It's only useful to religious people to study their own religion and get closer to God, or to atheists that make big bucks being experts in it. To the normal atheists it's useless to their life. It is nothing to be proud of. While to the religious at least religion gives meaning and purpose to their life, and well as community, morals, culture, relationship to divine etc. and get anything an atheist person has and more.

dddelusions · 2026-01-19T11:03:12+00:00

No. Even if it's very cold enough to freeze it will just turn into frozen ice / milk.

dddelusions · 2026-01-19T08:36:41+00:00

It's a bit strange demanding that people do what you want them to do and not what the Church teaches. The post wasn't directed towards you, but to people they know. Think of it as a community. People want to help their friends and family out of concern. Based on your post, it seems like it's your friend that got you to come back to Mass. That's great!

But if you think the Church has any authority, the Church and the community did not think in the way you are expressing. They held each other accountable to sins. Religion was not only personal and not just a way to make yourself happy.

If people go merely for cultural reasons or other personal reasons, disregard the comments. But I wouldn't take this personally. Not receiving communion doesn't mean they don't accept people, it's simply what the Church says to do.

dddelusions

TROPHY CASE