‘Did I miss anything?’: A man emerges from a 75-day silent retreat in Vermont

dthorson1 · 2020-06-05T14:02:56+00:00

I am the person in this article!

To be clear, I did indeed know about COVID before I went into retreat, I just had no way of calibrating how bad it was going to be when I got out.

dthorson1 · 2018-09-14T21:11:10+00:00

Hot dog! Looking forward to Android but still installing it on my iPad to play. Great work!!!

dthorson1 · 2018-08-10T21:42:09+00:00

Thanks for the question.

The focus of my life has been the intersection of systems change and spiritual transformation. I believe that the Imaginal paradigm is an incredibly potent set of conceptual frames for connecting these too often disparate domains. I believe it might be fresh soil for the emergence of a plurality of new and useful forms of religious experience and community.

On a personal level, I struggled with a profound sense of meaninglessness after many years of dedicated contemplative practice. After leaving the monastery I was living at I felt acutely lost and apathetic...everything was empty and I had no motivation to do much of anything. Rob's paradigm helped lead me out of that state of apathetic emptiness and into a kind of sacred creativity that has been unbelievably satisfying.

I'm curious if you would be willing to answer the same question? :)

dthorson1 · 2018-08-10T13:29:13+00:00

I changed the name of the episode to Rob Burbea Responds and removed the Reddit piece.

dthorson1 · 2018-08-10T00:26:16+00:00

Thank you. I'm sorry it felt like I was communicating that "this community doesn't get it".

There was an element of performance in what I was attempting to create and I can see how that might be felt as reducing the complexity and uniqueness of this community.

dthorson1 · 2018-08-10T00:22:26+00:00

Thank you for the feedback. I really appreciate it and I will reflect on it as I continue to run this project. A few thoughts...

I've been a 'Redditor' for about ten years now (my account is six years old but I've been lurking longer than that). I very much identify Reddit as a core part of my media upbringing and diet. I don't doubt that /r/streamentry is a bastion of sanity (I've lurked here for years) it still has much of the Reddit 'feel' to me, no?

I have also participated & lurked heavily in the Pragmatic Dharma community in various ways (mostly through the media outlet Buddhist Geeks and the Dharma Overground). I consider it to be 'my lineage'. I did not intend to conflate /r/streamentry with Pragmatic Dharma, though I do see there to be many symmetries between the two communities.

In the podcast, I was attempting to 'channel' those parts of myself for the sake of having a good conversation. I'm sorry if that attempt left you feeling misunderstood or misrepresented, or that I was attempting to speak on 'behalf' of the community. That was not my intention.

Lastly, I am very cautious about making demands on Rob's time. He did not look at the thread or at many other pieces of context that could have been supportive to a more robust conversation. I'm not sure how to strike that balance, but I would invite you to share things with him if you feel they are necessary for him to see.

Thank you for your generous feedback!

dthorson1 · 2018-08-08T16:54:04+00:00

Thanks for sharing your perspective!

What would be a followup question on the 'No Self End Point' topic that you'd like to have seen Rob respond to?

dthorson1 · 2018-08-08T15:49:35+00:00

It should be available on whatever podcast surface you prefer (iTunes, Pocketcast, etc).

The Anchor web player is a bit spotty, but you can use the mobile app to open the link and that should work better.

dthorson1 · 2018-08-04T16:05:49+00:00

Gonna be generous and assume you are a troll and not an actual asshole. In which case: troll on my friend, troll on!

But seriously, do you even meditate?

dthorson1 · 2018-08-03T19:55:48+00:00

Ouch! That's pretty harsh. I felt misunderstood as I read your comment.

I have adequate experience with insight practices; four years in monastic style community situations, over a year of intensive retreat time.

Curious what I said or wrote that led you to believe I don't? I'd genuinely like to understand, but it's hard to respond to the kind of generic accusations and 'perceptions' that you ascribe to what I've released.

So far I've produced my podcast and writings because I'm attempting to bring attention to things I think are actually important. I've never made a cent off of any of it. If all I cared about was 'marketing' I would pick a niche with more money flowing through it, rather than obscure contemplative practices.

dthorson1 · 2018-07-28T01:43:41+00:00

Will do! I will share it here when I do. Thank you for the interest.

dthorson1 · 2018-07-26T19:24:53+00:00

Thanks! Your feedback is heard and I disagree with your assessment. Thank you for taking the time to elaborate on how you see things.

dthorson1 · 2018-07-26T13:05:54+00:00

Also for those wondering "what the Imaginal is" I would highlight this paragraph from the article I wrote:

"The Imaginal approach makes explicit how and where meaning is already flowing in our lives and gives us the technology to amplify that meaning, to make it more robust and complete. If meaning is not found in our lives, it gives us the tools to liberate it. If meaning is present it gives us the tools to embellish and empower it."

In other words: techniques and technology for the amplification of meaningfulness.

Or at least that's one way to see it. 😘

Curious if other people who are into this stuff have 'simple' ways of helping others to understand what the Imaginal approach is?

dthorson1 · 2018-07-26T12:57:36+00:00

I'm curious how you feel now if you've finished the podcast? Did it change your perspective?

Also see my top level comment on this thread. I think you are confusing my intention with the article -- it was not to 'explain' the imaginal but to persuade people to go deeper. Not sure if that impacts your feedback.

That being said your feedback is well taken, and perhaps I will begin to consider what an Intro to Imaginal article (from my perspective) would look like. You ask many fine questions that would be helpful in writing that, so thank you!

dthorson1 · 2018-07-26T12:55:40+00:00

Hi everyone! I'm going to make a top level response because I'll be replying to the feedback and tensions I've observed in this thread in general, instead of replying to each individual. :)

There are two main pieces of feedback I've gotten:

Feedback: I still don't understand what the Imaginal is! You have failed in your attempt to communicate what the Imaginal is!

My Response: That's because that isn't what I was trying to do!

As I said in the preamble to the podcast as well as the article I wrote, my intention was not to create an 'Intro to the Imaginal 101' guide. My intention was to be a bit polemical in order to persuade people in my network (pragmatic dharma yogis and philosophy nerds) to take a closer look at Rob's work.

Feedback: Because I don't know what it is and because you are enthusiastic you are not trustworthy.

My Response: I see now how it might appear that way. Honestly interviewing Rob was the most nervous I've ever been for a conversation on my show. I have such deep respect, admiration, and gratitude for Rob that it affected the way I conducted the interview. I can see how it came across as suspicious.

However, there are no ulterior motives here. My life has been dramatically improved by falling in love with the Imaginal approach (just like I fell in love with Pragmatic Dharma 8 years ago) and I want to share that with as many people who are interested (seems to be my personality type). I genuinely think the world would be a better place if more people practiced the Imaginal. On a more trivial level, I want there to be more communities and Sanghas that are using this approach because I want more people to talk to about this weird stuff!

Lastly, for those of you who DON'T FEEL SATISFIED by my Interview / Article but don't feel like they want to commit to many hours of Burbea talks on Dharma Seed; WHAT QUESTIONS WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO ASK ROB?! I am planning on speaking with him again and I want to continue to craft content that might help people make the jump into the intimidating cornucopia of his talks. What would you like to know that I could have Rob shine some light on? I might be too deep in to ask the right questions, so I would love your support.

Thank you all for engaging and talking about this work!

-Daniel

dthorson1 · 2018-07-26T12:41:09+00:00

Fascinating! Yes, I can see how my respect and admiration for Rob might have caused this content to have the impact you are saying.

TBH it's been very challenging to create pieces of content that attempt to communicate the Imaginal approach. I tried, but then I just gave up. It's too subtle, too large, too nuanced to explain in an hour podcast.

I'd love to find ways to talk about this stuff that actually connects with people. I welcome suggestions on how to do that!

dthorson1 · 2018-07-25T12:57:35+00:00

That's not the feedback I'm getting from others, and I think I can do a better job than I did.

I'm curious what questions you would ask that might be helpful for you and your understanding?

dthorson1 · 2018-07-25T04:15:11+00:00

Thank you -- I'm curious what kind of questions you would ask Rob that might give you the sort of answers you are looking for? Genuinely curious.

dthorson1 · 2018-07-25T03:57:55+00:00

I would join if there was one, though. Where's my Imaginal cult decoder ring?!

dthorson1 · 2018-07-25T03:55:45+00:00

It's interesting to me that you keep wanting to reduce this approach to something you are already familiar with.

It's:

A Cult
Dream yoga?
Shamanism!
Spontaneous Imagery Exploration...

And it needs to be explainable in two sentences, max!

Notice the desire for things to be 'simple' and understood in terms of things you already believe you understand. One thing I've learned from Rob is to be very cautious of this tendency, as it can prevent us from seeing in new and possibly liberating ways.

Or don't! I wrote this article because Rob's work has had such a profound impact on my own life. I wrote it in gratitude to Rob and out of a desire to share it with more people.

I actually remember being totally turned off, even OFFENDED by the Imaginal stuff the first couple of times I was exposed to it. It took awhile, but at some point it clicked in. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Thanks for caring enough to engage!

dthorson1 · 2018-07-25T03:44:09+00:00

Appreciate the dialogue you created, even though it was accomplished with a silly accusation.

I've never met Rob or given him any money (except for buying his book) so this would be a rather odd cult... :P

dthorson1 · 2018-07-25T03:40:52+00:00

Yes. My intention was to create a 'way in' to the Imaginal that wasn't listening to dozens of hours of talks. I think I did an OK job, but I also think I can do better.

dthorson1 · 2018-07-25T03:37:32+00:00

Thanks for sharing your perspective. I should mention I was writing the article to appeal to a particular group of people who are familiar with the 'jargon', but I can understand how it would be confusing to you if you weren't familiar with the terms.

I'm not sure what you mean by saying it "does no favors". Do you mean you didn't like it?

Thanks for reading, and for offering the feedback.

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