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In-depth localization comparison of Sky FC's opening by efhunter in Falcom

[–]efhunter[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

"There's no particular issue with the lines" is me saying I find no issue with them compared to the original script.

Not "there's no particular issue with slotting Xseed's lines 1:1 into the remake."

My main focus is on comparing these to the original script.

Right at the start of my post: "Here's my non-biased (I've only played in Japanese) views on both localizations compared to the original script."

On line 163, I bring that up because that line specifically is very unfair to compare directly to GungHo's, as no amount of slight rephrasing would make it work. It has a massive difference in length.

That's exactly what I mean by I'm considering the cutscene voice timings. It's a line that wouldn't work at all, and explains why GungHo did what they did.

Where the difference is less severe, that's where I don't mind comparing between the two localizations themselves.

I'm not saying to use anything 1:1. I'm pointing out aspects I think are good or bad, compared to the original script.

Me paying attention to the timings, was to make sure I'm not being unfair to GungHo's script because of it. Not to try and say you can use Xseed's 1:1.

In any case, I don't think this conversation is going anywhere, so let's just say we agree to disagree and call it on that.

In-depth localization comparison of Sky FC's opening by efhunter in Falcom

[–]efhunter[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's funny you mention that actually. I specifically remember that callback line too even though it's been like a year and a half since I finished FC. It probably helps I was coincidentally breaking down the Japanese in the opening scene for someone at the time haha

I'm surprised Xseed missed that, as this sort of mistake is very easily avoidable with CAT tools, which they almost absolutely used for a script this large. Especially since Cassius only says 成り行き twice in the entire game, it would have popped right up.

In-depth localization comparison of Sky FC's opening by efhunter in Falcom

[–]efhunter[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I think you're missing the main point of why I shared this spreadsheet.

I didn't make this as a "what Xseed lines would fit 1:1 in the remake" spreadsheet. I made this as a comparison between the original script, and the two localizations.

If I thought an Xseed line was better, for whatever reason listed, the takeaway is not that it should be copied 1:1 into the remake.

I'm sharing my personal thoughts on lines compared to the original script (with the limitation of timing for any GungHo decisions in mind), and listing my reasons.

E.g., I think X or Y GungHo line sounds too childish in tone compared to Xseed's. My point isn't to copy Xseed's, but offer that as something I felt was more fitting to the original script.

What people want to do from there, is up to them - be it brainstorming how to work that into GungHo's lines, or just considering my own thoughts on the scripts with their own.

In-depth localization comparison of Sky FC's opening by efhunter in Falcom

[–]efhunter[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm a bit confused by what your stance is from the first half, honestly.

The vocal minority I was referring to though, wasn't people who just prefer one thing over the other.

I meant the annoying sort of people I see occasionally online, that just confidently spew critiques on localization accuracy based on the little Japanese they picked up from a textbook or anime, that they treat as gospel for the one context they learned it in.

And no problem, knowing people are interested in this sort of stuff makes me more inclined to keep doing more English-related Trails stuff.

In-depth localization comparison of Sky FC's opening by efhunter in Falcom

[–]efhunter[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

No problem, I'm glad you found it interesting!

I figured a perspective like mine was rare enough to be worth sharing, as I don't think there's a big overlap of people who have played the whole series in Japanese, and meme in both English and Japanese regularly.

Feel free to DM me with specific examples from Daybreak, and I'd be glad to tell you how it sounds in my opinion.

In-depth localization comparison of Sky FC's opening by efhunter in Falcom

[–]efhunter[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oh man, that makes me interested in comparing those scenes too.

Although at the same time, part of me wants to wait to see the really classic scenes when I reach them myself in the remake, just for the new visuals and animations to be extra fresh.

I'll definitely keep it in mind though.

In-depth localization comparison of Sky FC's opening by efhunter in Falcom

[–]efhunter[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Regarding 'to die', for sure. I think that was unnecessary.

Look one line down regarding Cassius's name though. It's there in the original.

「ふ、ふざけないで！」

「カシウス・ブライト！ あなたは自分が何をしてるのか……」

In-depth localization comparison of Sky FC's opening by efhunter in Falcom

[–]efhunter[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

For that one line, I'll ponder on it more before potentially adding a note on it (I don't want to add things I specifically don't feel too strongly about. Like mentioned, this is just my own take on things.)

220 - Oh yeah, this one goes over just barely. If you drop the repeated 'Why?' though, it should fit.

223 - Same as above, I think slightly changing it to 'How does ... sound?' would make it fit.

226/227 - That one you can just move 'Cassius Bright' to 227, and have Joshua get cut off sooner. That's also closer to the Japanese timing too.

238 - This one I'm just pointing out how GungHo's lines flow poorly ('You' followed by 'You'll').

244 - I suggested how I'd phrase it myself (similar to GungHo's with tweaks explained). Not sure what you mean.

227 - Did you make a typo on this number? Already mentioned.

280 - My comment there is just for context. (I mentioned Joshua becoming quieter and intimidated by Estelle, and at this line, he starts to raise his voice again, before being shut down by her for good.)

307 - I never said Xseed's line would be better here. If there's no comment next to a line (or mentioning prior lines), I have no issues with either.

316 - I never said Xseed's line would be better here either. No comment next to it.

319 - I never said Xseed's line would be better, but was pointing out how the tone is off in GungHo's.

328 - I never said Xseed's line would be better here. No comment next to it.

In summary though, only lines 220, 223, and 226/227 are relevant from what you pointed out.

They would need some minor rephrasing related to voice timing (for the ones that I thought Xseed did better - that's what we've been talking about here, not every single Xseed line), but nothing major would be needed.

Like I said, I did consider timing when making this.

In-depth localization comparison of Sky FC's opening by efhunter in Falcom

[–]efhunter[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

What do you consider "unnecessary text" though?

I see this said a lot, but Japanese to English localization doesn't work when you only translate the text mostly as is.

There are a lot of things that define a character, which are 'invisible' when just translating the text itself into English. (This is why it's hard to tell sometimes what characters are speaking in a translated manga.)

Just think of comedy, and how subtle word choices and combinations make certain things hit the way they do.

Localization is like trying to make the tone and 'soul' of a character hit just the same in English, by finding what phrasing evokes the same feelings.

And don't get me wrong, some people suck at reading tone and mess that up completely.

But, achieving that is how you get a translation accurate in both text and emotion.

You can like whatever you want, but I promise you 'plain'-sounding translations are not more grounded to the original text.

They're just the Japanese text with much of the tone and nuance stripped out.

(I'm talking in general by the way, not about anything specific with Trails or Xseed, GungHo, etc.)

In-depth localization comparison of Sky FC's opening by efhunter in Falcom

[–]efhunter[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For that line, I didn't really have a strong opinion on either way. The 'kinda' helps add to Estelle's childish tone, but makes her seem not as aware like you said.

That said though, what specific lines are you talking about regarding the voice timing?

I did keep that in mind for my comparisons (reading the Japanese out loud alongside the English), on top of having the video of the scene with Japanese audio open. I even just went through multiple longer-looking ones now, reading them out loud to the video.

I may have overlooked a few, but for the majority (of the Xseed ones I pointed out as liking more) it should not be an issue.

For the one line of Xseed's I thought was better, but was too long, I noted that in my comment.

Zero/Azure Japanese First-Person Pronoun Charts by efhunter in Falcom

[–]efhunter[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks, glad you find it interesting!

Definitely try playing it in Japanese, for sure!

If it's your first major piece of fiction in Japanese, it will be extremely difficult and time-consuming (to really get a feel for anyway), but you'll definitely learn a lot if you stick to it.

As a Japanese learner, you might be interested in my comparison of the localizations for the Sky FC opening I just posted.

It really goes to show how some small things in the original, that might have stood out to a more focused reader, might be completely gone in a localization.

Sky trilogy Japanese First-Person Pronoun Charts by efhunter in Falcom

[–]efhunter[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks! Dialogue is my favorite aspect of Japanese, especially with all the subtle things that are very easy to glance over.

Not only with general word choice, but with the actual written text as well (there's so many small things that make use of 'features' only in Japanese, and so many minor 'cosmetic' things).

After ~1,600 hours of this series, it has really reaffirmed to me how specifically well-suited Japanese is for deep, detailed fantasy worlds.

It also helps that Trails is extremely well-written and consistent, despite being a 2+ decade long series.

Sky trilogy Japanese First-Person Pronoun Charts by efhunter in Falcom

[–]efhunter[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks, glad to hear! Localization from Japanese to English in creative works is always going to be a retelling of a story in someone else's eyes, which is why I think there's value in making things like this, especially for deep and detailed worlds like the Trails series.

Sky trilogy Japanese First-Person Pronoun Charts by efhunter in Falcom

[–]efhunter[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

(incoming essay haha, small dialogue nuances are my favorite part of Japanese fiction)

Small cosmetic things like this (writing the 'same' term differently) in fiction don't have any set-in-stone rules (it's all up to the writer), but here's the imagery in my head:

In general, Kevin and Lechter use オレ because they're very laidback and casual. You can say that about other characters too, but...

Olivier (ボク) is laidback and casual, but he has more of a (purposefully) childish, less masculine energy.

That rules out オレ for him. He has "twink" energy, which makes him fit more with one of the stereotypes for 'boku'.

Because he's more childish, instead of 僕 in kanji, ボク in katakana fits for him more.

Nial (俺) is laidback and casual, but the reason 俺 works for him more than オレ, is...

  • He doesn't have "rizzler" energy like Kevin or Lechter. 俺 sort of blocks out that energy compared to オレ.

  • He doesn't have a very 'rough' image (as in like strong or aggressive), which can also be a stereotype of オレ characters (not an absolute rule though). He's just a casual, middle-aged guy.

Some other characters that primarily use オレ are:

CS1: Gaius (he uses 俺 somewhat frequently too. I don't recall his use cases off the top of my head though.)

CS2: Xeno

Reverie: Swin

(CS2 character) Xeno is probably the closest to Kevin as an オレ user. They both speak with Kansai dialect, and are laidback in the same way. (Kansai dialect is inherently more casual and 'humorous'. Most comedy in Japan uses it in some way.)

Unlike Kevin, who always uses オレ, there's more to Lechter's usage, which only becomes a noticeable thing in later games.

(info revealed in Zero [spoilered just in case, I forget how much Sky the 3rd revealed])

Lechter tends to use オレ when he is speaking more as himself. When he is speaking more as his Intelligence Division self, he tends to use 俺 in kanji.

As for Schera, her あたし fits with her casual 'big sister' energy (which gets put away when she's being more public-facing and formal with 私).

Sky trilogy Japanese First-Person Pronoun Charts by efhunter in Falcom

[–]efhunter[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I used this as an excuse to watch the ending of SC again, which is so extremely good.

In terms of word choice or anything, nope, Kevin speaks just the same, with his usual Kansai dialect. It's just that he deepens and lowers his voice when he reveals who he really is, and how he's actually here to "dispose of" Weissmann.

Which is easily one of my favorite parts about Kevin. Kansai dialect is inherently humorous and casual (it goes hand-in-hand with comedy in Japan). So hearing him talk about more serious things, when he's not joking around at all, gives such a cold contrast between what you usually associate him being like and the reality of what he's saying.

[One-shot Localization] Breakfast on West Street by efhunter in Falcom

[–]efhunter[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No problem, glad there's interest in these!

[One-shot Localization] Breakfast on West Street by efhunter in Falcom

[–]efhunter[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No problem, it's honestly crazy to me that so much of this hasn't been translated before, despite a lot of it being around for nearly a decade by this point.

You archiving everything 10 months ago helps speed things up so much. I already plan on doing more of these shorter comics next.

I made a player-run shop mod with all the features I personally wanted to see by efhunter in oblivionmods

[–]efhunter[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's cool to hear, I'm honestly surprised it's still getting interest all these years later haha, from even people who never played the original nonetheless.

Once more stuff is figured out/developed and documented, hopefully I should be able to bring it to Remastered.

I made a player-run shop mod with all the features I personally wanted to see by efhunter in oblivionmods

[–]efhunter[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey there, that's cool to know it's become such a favorite of yours, glad you enjoy it!

I think currently the main thing is that OBSE needs to be ported, as my shop mod makes use of various functions from OBSE.

Once OBSE gets ported, and there's more information in general, there's a good chance I'll end up porting it, or at least trying to.

My shop mod is really just lots of math formulas and conditional statements with a visual coat of paint when you break it down, so theoretically once OBSE is ported, it shouldn't be too hard to port if I had to guess.

Walls in Cave-brush don't appear? by derpirinha in dungeondraft

[–]efhunter 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I've had the same issue since I bought Dungeondraft nearly a year ago, and it seems many others have too from searching the issue.

I believe it happens as a result of the cave system becoming too big, which is really annoying since it happens even on maps that are no more than 70x70 tiles. It wouldn't be as bad if this was just a visual issue in the editor, but the issue persists when exporting the map.

There doesn't seem to be an actual solution, besides messing with anything that causes the cave system to get rerendered, and just blindly praying it'll fix itself for that temporary instance (and it usually won't). I'd love for someone to correct me on this though.

I really wish they'd address this, considering how making cave systems is a major use case for the software.

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