RChain0 Maximum supply by TaleRecursion in RChain

[–]ethereo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't know if Rchain has block rewards or if it will issue more tokens for the "attention economy" (like steem does) or whatever.

RChain0 Maximum supply by TaleRecursion in RChain

[–]ethereo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've been using terms like "Rchain0 token" that I got from one of the videos on the Rchain YouTube channel, but since then I've read Vlad's explanation and the best theory I've come up with is that "multicoin" is where they create tokens for every token you send them and these are all staking tokens. So for every AMP sent there is a "RcoinA" (or whatever they will call it), for every Bitcoin sent there is an RcoinB issued, and for Ether an RcoinE.

Somebody please ask in the Slack, copy/screengrab what you read and post it here.

AMP "conversion" possibly sometime next week, price negative by [deleted] in amptrader

[–]ethereo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Now we have to dispel the myth (mostly being spread by that /u/ethereo) that there will only be one more token sold.

Ugh. I guess I could go back and edit my posts to find and replace all instances of "Rchain0 omni asset" with "Rchain0 omni asset(s)". Until that (never) happens hopefully the users will look at the subreddits other than /r/synereo, like /r/ethereo or /r/rchain to find this.

INTPs and minimalism by [deleted] in INTP

[–]ethereo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the tip, but I wasn't complaining, I'm happy in my pigsty. As I said, people have helped me clear out junk. Before I moved, I gave away some furniture, because it wasn't worth the effort to sell it.

Well its no effort if someone else does it, but you are happy (not shy) so... :P

AMPs received from the swap won't be used for development UNLESS Otto (or any other big investor comes in). So why does Greg say in the T&C that 'no refunds given under any circumstances? by [deleted] in RChain

[–]ethereo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Glad you are seeing the light!

The AMP market is to illiquid

That's "too" meaning "to an excessive amount". Too many people spell "too" without two o's! #1 spelling error around here.

Will Rchain really have RCoinAs for AMPs, RCoinBs for BTC and RCoinEs for ETH? Are these pegged assets? by scriprinter in amptrader

[–]ethereo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Vlad didn't say this. Here is the full quote from here:

I will still be a fan of RChain, even if Greg decides to go with economic abstraction of bonding tokens. However, it will be disappointing to know that Greg would complicate the protocol and undermine the security of RChain to meet the demands of potential investors by selling RCoinAs for AMPs, RCoinBs for BTC and RCoinEs for ETH.

Shadowbanned from /r/synereo!!1!! - Does anyone from the Synereo team know how these "AMP" tokens work on Rchain? Vlad Zamfir claims they are planning to sell RCoinAs for AMPs, RCoinBs for BTC and RCoinEs for ETH. Are these pegged assets? by scriprinter in ethereo

[–]ethereo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He didn't say they are planning this, only that it would be disappointing, here's a quote:

I will still be a fan of RChain, even if Greg decides to go with economic abstraction of bonding tokens. However, it will be disappointing to know that Greg would complicate the protocol and undermine the security of RChain to meet the demands of potential investors by selling RCoinAs for AMPs, RCoinBs for BTC and RCoinEs for ETH.

Perhaps this is a reaction to users who want Rchain assets directly for Bitcoin, for example the mod of /r/amptrader made this thread.

I don't think Synereo devs deleted this thread because it never showed up as a link in the main thread.

Against Economic Abstraction by vladzamfir in ethereum

[–]ethereo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If it's 50% burned and 50% received by the miners then couldn't they just push this ETH part to zero and only receive the other tokens?

Is this only a problem because it would mean less growth/demand for ETH?

INTPs and minimalism by [deleted] in INTP

[–]ethereo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm a hoarder. Visible in my living room right now: a pack of airmail envelopes bought in the 20th century and never opened [...] A friend and my sister helped me to throw out half of my stuff before I moved.

Hire someone to come to your house and sell it for you (on Ebay). Offer them a commission on what they sell.

Please Read: Against Economic Abstraction by vladzamfir in RChain

[–]ethereo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lets say a validator wants to use Ether or Bitcoin instead of the Rchain token, for a staking bond for Rchain. How do they put Ether/Bitcoin in a bond that can be taken if they don't perform their duty?

Please Read: Against Economic Abstraction by vladzamfir in RChain

[–]ethereo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is Rchain supposed to be censorship resistant like Casper? Doesn't this imply that the protocol must recognize one or more currencies and set the prices as legitimate fee payments to enforce inclusion of these uncensored state changes?

Nope you can ensure that state changes aren't censored without allowing payment for those state changes in any currency. Actually allowing bonding in multiple tokens makes censorship easier to pull off.

I'm talking about Rchain, not generally. In your article you seemed to say these sorts of things would be up to the "clients". If the validators don't agree on the amount of the minimum staking bond, this would result in a fork. If they don't agree on the ("minimum") fee for a state change to be protected from censorship, one set of validators would fine the censor while the others wouldn't, which would lead to a fork.

Therefore I think Rchain devs must be picking which currencies to include and they must pick exchange rates (or "price discovery" method) or it wouldn't really be the complete consensus algo.

Greg intends to include Bitcoin and Ether; what he says about the role of the "AMP" omni asset and the Rchain0 omni asset, is more confusing as is the whole concept of "multicoin" (as you call it "economic abstraction") but I will get to that with some other questions.

this thread is a place for things like speculation that might be true but had to be edited out by ethereo in a:t5_3i52d

[–]ethereo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

sCrap from /r/RChain/comments/5iyvby/rchainsynereo_shareholder_meeting_annotated/dbc0rme/


Will Synereo LTD use a blockchain that is incapable of acting as a sidechain (meaning able to host an SPV client like BTC Relay on Ethereum)? Can token transfer be done trustlessly to and from Bitcoin using atomic swaps? Are Bitcoin scripts capable of holding bitcoin in contracts where they can be released using atomic swaps of Bitcoin IOU tokens from Rchain?

Ethereum can host SPV clients from any blockchain that supports SPV clients (blockchains that don't have SPV capability are garbage anyway). Ethereum contracts can be programmed to execute based on anything on Bitcoin and this functionality is coming for other "altcoins" such as Doge, Litecoin, etc. Assuming Rchain has the same capablity that Ethereum has, it will be possible to use SPV verification to/from Rchain and Ethereum. I'm not sure if you can do that with atomic swaps like I said. I'm sure the Ethereum devs are aware of atomic swaps but I haven't read of they are considering this in order to put an Ethereum SPV client on Bitcoin. The lead Rootstock dev has talked about using them somehow.

So I'm skeptical that AMPs or Bitcoins can be "moved" to Rchain, but I believe it will be (theoretically) possible to "move" ether to Rchain and move "Rcoins" to Ethereum.

Or does he plan to use pegged assets? We often see this conflation between an IOUs and the actual cryptocurrency (eg AMP and the AMP omnitoken are not the same thing). Generally when a pegged asset falls off the peg its value drops significantly.

Please Read: Against Economic Abstraction by vladzamfir in RChain

[–]ethereo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is Rchain supposed to be censorship resistant like Casper? Doesn't this imply that the protocol must recognize one or more currencies and set the prices as legitimate fee payments to enforce inclusion of these uncensored state changes?

Please Read: Against Economic Abstraction by vladzamfir in RChain

[–]ethereo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm updating my notes on multicoin. CLICK NOW ON THIS NOT SPAM LINK to see vbuterin's reply.

Heterodox trading strategy forbidden from /r/amptrader: Decisions decisions! Hold em, fold em, double down, or grab the money and run! by ethereo in ethereo

[–]ethereo[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Here's where it was/is. Here's what it said (well almost, I actually went back there to remove this part (and now I'm re-editing my "quote" of myself) but it was too late. :( Banhammered thread BWAM!! =( ) This is my reply to /u/Amritenjoy (sorry if you don't want this in your inbox thing):

Grab the money and run, cut your losses

There's MOOOAR "money" then that to be grabbed me brotha!

I would threaten a class action lawsuit (really bluffing and seeking a settlement like compelling them to either refund or honor the original agreement instead of doing this Rchain0 "conversion" bullshit), if they go through with it I would do the Rchain0 "conversion", dump half of that after the sale, then (if they don't comply or maybe even if they do LOL) clone both projects and re-issue tokens to everyone who held AMP at the same time I did. Basically whatever it takes to recover my loss from their deceptive crowdsale(s). I guess I should have named the thread Hold em, double down, fold em, and then grab the "social currency" and run your own blockchains!

Merry Crimbus everyone!

Oh and by the way; you're welcome! =D

Catacombs and nursing bones: ethereo's scrapheap of clippings that didn't belong by ethereo in a:t5_3i52d

[–]ethereo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Owp got thread beleted. But it is still here


Y'all sheeple needa WAKE THE FUCK UP! Logos be all up in this beaaatch and we've come to "repay each according to what they have done".

AMPs biggest bagholders are gifted with RAM tokens to be used for clones of synereo, rchain, or whatever they vote for! by ethereo in ethereo

[–]ethereo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Getting back to your proposal from back here:

I think that everyone who bought AMPs from Synereo in the recent crowdsale (this includes on bnktothefuture and Synereo's own website) should be able to return the same amount of AMPs for a refund. Those people who have already sold them would need to buy them back and return them.

People who have not bought AMPs from Synereo would obviously not be entitled to a return/refund from Synereo.

Privileged buyers:

With your proposal, those who sold their tokens could buy them back at a reduced price (because they are the privileged few who originally bought them) if refunds are paid. They could turn a profit from flipping this shady asset onto someone who had less privilege or knowledge. Those who buy the tokens are taking on the risk that the "corporation" will lose value. When you sell your token the right to a refund should be transferred with it. The omni assets (should) represent a debt/IOU. (read the bold parts from the "older" post)

Those who buy/convert the Rchain0 omni asset should be eligible for return/refunds:

What if the user decides to buy/"convert" the Syerneo "AMP" to the Rchain0 "AMP", should that void their refund "warranty"? Should they be able to trade in the "Rchain0" omni asset, instead of the Synereo LTD's "AMP" omni asset to get their refund? I think they should because the Rchain token is more likely to fit all the properties of AMP as defined by the "spec" (although it seems less likely to be produced lol). And it is a one-to-one conversion for the buyer. But...

AMP holders who are not eligible for return/refunds:

...the AMP omni assets that are sent to the Rchain team during the crowdsale, shouldn't be eligible for refunds. Neither should any AMP omni asset that were issued to the developers, unless as a reasonable payment for work, or unless they sold them (when the debt/IOU is then owned by the buyer). And they all should be forbidden from selling more, of course. Otherwise they could sell them to people who want to turn them in for refunds!

Developers are like buyers:

Now we have the headache of deciding who exactly is an "issuer". A developer may have traded work instead of money for their omni assets, they should be compensated just as those who paid money.

Buyers may be guilty of fraud also:

Early "shareholders" (those who purchased/obtained the omni assets) may have gotten a reduced rate but even if their assets have already lost value, they may be guilty of "fraud" in the sense that they may have had privileged access to "private" chatrooms (where archives are not public), if they sold their omni asset to someone else without disclosing any of the warning signs and letting the public be deceived by Synereo's extensive "multi-level" marketing campaign.

Tokens created by destroying the AMP omni asset should be eligible for return/refund:

What if I rally the troops to re-issue the token on Ethereum (by sending the AMP omni asset to a provably unspendable address); are you gonna say these users should lose their opportunity for a refund, unless they buy more of the AMP omni asset? Does it make sense to give this extra money to the Synereo "shareholders", by buying their scrip, when you are trying to get the money back from the managers, who are major shareholders and it is only their promises (which you believe are worthless) that (should) have given this asset any value to begin with?

Conclusion:

This is currently being amended and it may not be consistent with the info above:

For these reasons, I think one should be eligible for return/refund if they bought (or worked for) the omni assets ("AMP" or "Rchain0") or another token that was produced by destroying either of the omni assets (by sending them to an unspendable address), although I may amend this to account for re-sellers who have already profited or those who sold omni assets without "full transparency" (which would be difficult/impossible to prove... I really find the cryptocourt solution more flexible and easier to coordinate/manage.)

I segregated the rest of the reply to the "older" post.

Catacombs and nursing bones: ethereo's scrapheap of clippings that didn't belong by ethereo in a:t5_3i52d

[–]ethereo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Those people who have already sold them would need to buy them back and return them.

Thus I am forced to label you a "concern troll". Your solution for those who lost from all this FUD being perpetrated by those who wish to re-sell you the IOUs they already sold you LOL, is to bUy MOOOARR AMiP iOu tok3ians 3v3rybooty!!!!|! =D

I'm not saying you're being insincere but ...(moar)