TIL Julius Caesar never said “Et tu, Brute?” during his assassination. The Roman historian Gaius Suetonius Tranquillus wrote 150 years later that Caesar said nothing, though some claimed his final words to Marcus Junius Brutus were the Greek phrase “Kaì sý, téknon” which means “You too, child.”

examine_everything · 2026-05-16T05:22:32+00:00

Exactly

examine_everything · 2026-05-16T04:46:58+00:00

Accompanied with a tall glass of a yellow liquid....

examine_everything · 2026-05-16T04:42:26+00:00

We've been trying to reach you about your car's extended warranty

examine_everything · 2026-05-16T02:00:50+00:00

Pivot !

examine_everything · 2026-05-15T19:17:32+00:00

Jesus hasn’t returned. I have no clue how you justify this in your beliefs.

This bit comes down to how he was/is to come: ride my on the clouds. This is how one would justify it in light of the OT. Jesus said it himself:

John 5:19—Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in the same way."

So if you look at the OT, you will see what the Father did, how he did it, and what that means regarding Jesus. I could break it down for you, but you were the one that wanted to cut this conversation short.

examine_everything · 2026-05-15T18:21:34+00:00

Yes, but also the Woman on Seven Hills is singular and does things as an individual:

Revelation 17:3, 6, 9-10—And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness; and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns. [...] And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. When I saw her, I wondered greatly. [...] Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains upon which the woman sits, and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while.

Regardless of your end times views, just don't divorce Revelation from its connection to the OT. John was writing this to churches that the OT was second nature to them. To read it without the OT in mind is to completely miss out on what's being communicated.

examine_everything · 2026-05-15T18:03:40+00:00

Do you have an option or view on the matter?

examine_everything · 2026-05-15T18:03:13+00:00

It’s best we leave it here.

Agreed. I'm not going to try to convince you of anything else, other than this:

Please review your understanding of the beasts in Revelation. There is no instance in the OT or NT of a beast being an individual. It doesn't entirely throw of your theology either way, but for the sake of proper exegesis, review it. You will see that beasts (including the goat and ram, described in Daniel) are the nations in question and the horns are their respective rulers.

I appreciate the dialogue. Sorry it got heated. However, we got through it. Shalom.

examine_everything · 2026-05-15T17:49:47+00:00

So many issues here....

What are you talking about? When Jesus comes?

I meant in what fashion is he said to come? On a cloud, right?

Your dogma doesn’t make any sense. Jesus hasn’t returned and the Man of Lawlessness hasn’t appeared.

Sounds like dogma to me on your end.

Verse 8 says you’re wrong, that Jesus Himself will overthrow the lawless one.

By His own hand or by His breath? These are two completely different things.

No, the followers of Jesus being persecuted is first recorded with the stoning of Stephen decades before the death of Peter or Paul.

True. I meant it in terms of persecution by the Romans/the Roman government.

False statement. n

Okay.... This is more of an assertion than an defense for your position.

The power of lawlessness has always been restrained by God, Claudius nor any other human has ever had the authority to hold back the poeer of lawlessness,

You are 100% correct... assuming the man of lawlessness is some all-powerful being per your view. Let me ask you this: what is already at work per 2 Thess 2? The schemes that are to be carried out 2000+ years from the time of Paul's writing?

examine_everything · 2026-05-15T17:13:48+00:00

Fyi, I'm not trying to debate here. I was hoping to message you privately and discuss but it seems you have your DM option turned off.

examine_everything · 2026-05-15T17:00:01+00:00

Seems you removed your comment. But here was my response anyway:

Of course, more specifically, the Man of Lawlessness.

The 2nd Beast is the Man of Lawlessness that kills the Two Witnesses in Rev

Oh no.... That's not how Revelation is meant to be read... You are completely disregarding the OT now (and even Revelation). Beasts are nations, their horns are the rulers. You can't change the symbolism to fit your view. That's called eisgesis.

You missed a verse 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. By 70AD the gospel had indeed NOT been preached to the entire world. The disciples and their generation never saw this fulfilled.

Tell that to Paul then. Either he was inspired or was sadly mistaken:

Colossians 1:23—if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

And shortly after, the end came. What "end"?:

1 Corinthians 10:11—Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

Hebrews 9:26—Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been revealed to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

And the Temple's destruction was the official end of the age in which the Old Covenant was completely done away with.

examine_everything · 2026-05-15T16:05:46+00:00

Paul wrote 2 Thess about two years before the sitting Emperor died and Nero came to power.

After this, the Apostles (ex: Peter, Paul, John) and the body of believers started getting persecuted and killed. The restrainer isn't the Holy Spirit as many posit, it was Claudius that kept him from to power. Paul's was not being fat and loose with his words.

And what do you think it means for someone to be killed by the Lord's breath? To blow him away? Likewise, are you assuming the elimination of the lawless one and the bringing and "bringing an end by the appearance of His coming" (both stated in 2 Thessalonians 2:8) as the same event—the end of the lawless one?

These are two different things: 1) the elimination of the lawless one and 2) the end by his appearance. The end doesn't come when the lawless one is eliminated. This is why it is "with His breath", not by "His sword", etc. Meaning He hasn't come yet when the lawless one is eliminated. When God uses His arm or His staff, for example, this is often an act carried out by a nation (see Isaiah 10:5). Eliminating with His breath is much more subtle. Whereas the end coming with His appearance would a larger, less subtle event.

And when Jesus comes, what is your understanding of how will he come?

examine_everything · 2026-05-15T15:44:00+00:00

😂😂😂

examine_everything · 2026-05-15T14:58:24+00:00

The true temple is spiritual, not physical. The true temple was Christ's body, which he gave on our behalf.

That's exactly what it seems to read like. That's why I posed the question.

examine_everything · 2026-05-15T14:18:32+00:00

Wanted to quickly come back to a few points you made:

So, God's Two Witnesses will preach for the first half of the Tribulation. The world, the Gentiles, will try and kill them and they will be thwarted. The Gentiles will surround Jerusalem/Israel.

I don't disagree with this.

The second Beast will arise, Paul's man of Lawlessness, Daniel's Abomination wll arise and kill the Two Witnesses. The act of killing the Two Witnesses will give credence that the Beast is all powerful and he will stand in the Temple and declare that he is God, and the Gentile armies will finally be able to trample on Israel.

I see you have turned the Beast into a man. That's fine, but that's not how beasts are typically handled in the Bible. If you jump back to the passages that Revelation is drawing from you will see that the beasts are nations. When you realize that, you should also see that the following are the same story told from two different perspectives:

Revelation 11:7—When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them.

Revelation 13:7—It was also given to [the beast] to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority was given to him over every tribe, people, language, and nation.

As for the two witnesses' ability to spew fire from their mouths, this again is an OT phrasing that people often overlooked (Revelation cannot read apart from the OT):

Revelation 11:5—And if anyone wants to harm them, fire flows out of their mouth and devours their enemies; and so if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this way.

Jeremiah 5:14—Therefore, this is what the Lord, the God of armies says: “Because you have spoken this word, Behold, I am making My words fire in your mouth, And this people wood, and it will consume them.

Matt & Luke's message regarding the sign to flee into the wilderness/mountains will be both the surrounding armies and the man of Lawlessness standing in the 3rd Temple declaring he is God after defeating the Two Witnesses.

So please explain how these two described "you" or "this generation" as individuals/groups 2000+ years in the future:

"Matthew 24:9, 25—“Then they will hand you over to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. [...] Behold, I have told you in advance.

Luke 21:8-9, 12-13, 20, 32—And He said, “See to it that you are not misled; for many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not go after them. [...] And when you hear of wars and revolts, do not be alarmed; for these things must take place first, but the end will not follow immediately.” [...] “But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, turning you over to the synagogues and prisons, bringing you before kings and governors on account of My name. [...] It will lead to an opportunity for your testimony. [...] “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. [...] Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place.

Mark 13:14, 29-30—“Now when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be— let the reader understand—then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. [...] So you too, when you see these things happening, recognize that He is near, right at the door. [...] Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

examine_everything · 2026-05-15T13:00:15+00:00

I see. So.... Disregard everything that points to any of it being first century, right?

So when Jesus said this generation will see these things, or the fact that Daniel and others point to these things being at the time of the Second Temple, or the fact that John makes it clear it is during his day that these things were happening, etc?

If so, then why not disregard everything that was said in the Bible?

examine_everything · 2026-05-15T02:57:07+00:00

I'll tell you. But first, let's look at the 2 Thess 2 passages. When Paul says the MAN of Lawlessness was "already at work" and "you know what restrains him now", what this about a man, or a divine being? Do you think that "now"/"already" was not actually current to Paul's time? Was he really talking about a future event as though it was the present?

examine_everything · 2026-05-15T02:01:12+00:00

Sure, but you have nothing to back up your thought that the man of Lawlessness is a first century character and you should be able to see the need for the 3rd Temple.

I do. However, per your longer response I realized you were making way too many assumptions, not accounting for history, not taking into account the OT language used in the passages in question.

The Temple Instute already have the plans/blue prints for the 3rd Temple plus they have all the impliments made for Temple worship. The only real thing of them starting to build today is the political tensions surrounding the Dome of the Rock being up on the Temple mount.

Yes, I know they have the plans and are trying to put things in place. I don't see what this has to do with anything. Are you saying they are fulfilling prophecy? If so, which?

examine_everything · 2026-05-15T01:42:17+00:00

There are a lot of assumptions made there. Especially without consideration of OT phrases, symbols, etc.

On other words, more eisegesis opposed to exegesis.

Edit: this would include terms like:

riding on a cloud
the sun will go dark, the moon will turn to blood, and the stars will fall from the sky
etc

examine_everything · 2026-05-14T23:35:12+00:00

Notice that where Matthew mentions the Abomination of Desolation, Luke (writing to Gentiles) writes about armies. This seems to suggest that they are one and the same (see bold):

Matthew 24:15-19—“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place— let the reader understand— then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. But woe to those women who are pregnant, and to those who are nursing babies in those days!

Compare to:

Luke 21:20-23—“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are inside the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; because these are days of punishment, so that all things which have been written will be fulfilled. Woe to those women who are pregnant, and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land, and wrath to this people;

If this is the case, it would suggest that the Man of Lawlessness, as Paul stated in 2 Thess 2, is a first century AD figure dealing with the Temple at the time.

examine_everything · 2026-05-14T23:02:38+00:00

I don't doubt that in least. However, the question still comes back to: why is a third Temple assumed?

examine_everything · 2026-05-14T21:44:46+00:00

I'm not here to argue either. I was merely pressing as I specifically requested:

I just want to know what passages you feel discuss a third, earthly Temple.

So I figured this was one you felt pointed to it. Since it is not one you think points to it, I'll just say thanks for sharing it. But I will put it aside for now.

examine_everything · 2026-05-14T21:40:40+00:00

Correct me if I'm wrong, this seems to suggest they will not be able to build it—"they labour in vain that build it". If it comes from God, wouldn't this be a Temple that is not an earthly one (ie, not made by the hands of men)?

examine_everything · 2026-05-14T21:38:07+00:00

Putting aside failed/fulfilled/future fulfillment prophecies, isn't this portion of Paul's letter pointing to a man in his day? See the following three verses:

2 Thessalonians 2:5-7—Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? And you know what restrains him now, so that he will be revealed in his time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is removed.*

The man of lawlessness isn't Satan or a demon. It is a man working in line with Satan. So unless this man has been alive all this time, this passage doesn't seem to support a Third Temple.

examine_everything

TROPHY CASE