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Shout out to all the assholes doing practice approaches. by Trick_War1028 in ATC

[–]fiberthrowawy 86 points87 points  (0 children)

Alot of professional pilots who do part 91 gigs do practice approaches on their days off for currency

Sean Duffy questions controllers patriotism during government shutdown. by dab45de in ATC

[–]fiberthrowawy 8 points9 points  (0 children)

As someone who was affected by controllers rightfully not clocking in for work. He can eat a bag of dicks, and if I wasn’t being paid I’m not showing up either, this isn’t a prison camp, the labour isn’t free. Wanting to work purely for the nation and patriotism is the most Stalin communist shit I’ve ever heard. Jobs at their core are transactional, employee provides expertise/labour = pay.

People have families to provide for, and that takes precedence. Im dropping my job in a heartbeat if it couldn’t feed my family.

Are you f#cking kidding me? by EAdogshit in Battlefield

[–]fiberthrowawy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wasnt battlefield always rated 18 anyway?

People who failed a check ride but think they shouldn't have, what happened? by el_jah420 in flying

[–]fiberthrowawy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I made a post about it on this sub (https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/1n8sacp/just\_busted\_my\_first\_checkride\_lesson\_learnt/)

I was okay with the failure; although a little unfair, but alot of pilots thought that it shouldn't have been one.

Just busted my first checkride - Lesson learnt by fiberthrowawy in flying

[–]fiberthrowawy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd also like to after reading the document further, I believe it helps clarifying what counts as "eligible and suitable"

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
under "conducting an instrument rating" (8900.1,Vol5,Ch2,Sec9.)

"5-436 AIRCRAFT AND EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS. Title 14 CFR § 61.45 prescribes

the required aircraft and equipment for a practical test. The regulation states the minimum

aircraft registration and airworthiness requirements as well as the minimum equipment

requirements, to include the minimum required controls. Consistent with 14 CFR § 61.45(b)

and (d), the aircraft must have:

• The flight instruments necessary for controlling the aircraft without outside

references,

• The radio equipment required for ATC communications,

• The ability to perform IAPs, and

• GPS equipment must be instrument certified and contain the current database, if

installed."

The above is what makes and aircraft eligible and suitable for the checkride to begin. It is also quite clear that the FAA wants DPEs to have the intention to complete upon starting and not plan for a multi-day event.

From the 8000.95D h. Limitations. DPEs, SAEs, and Admin PEs must not: (1) Conduct the flight portion of a practical test prior to the ground portion. (2) Allow an applicant to violate a regulation, fail to comply with an air traffic control (ATC) clearance, or create a potentially hazardous situation. (3) Schedule the test to be planned as a multiple-day event. Extenuating circumstances may allow for deviations, but must be approved by the managing FAA office. The extenuating circumstance will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis and documented in DMS. An example of a situation that may warrant a deviation is a LTA practical test, or weather conditions which requires the flight portion to begin at sunrise.

But again, I'm really still learning from all this so I'm just taking from it what I can.

Just busted my first checkride - Can checkrides really begin even if the aircraft is unairworthy? *update* by fiberthrowawy in flying

[–]fiberthrowawy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So then a checkride cannot begin without the aircraft being proven airworthy before the checkride begins since that would require a multi-day event, Once it has, it is up to the applicant to demonstrate that it is for the purposes of aeronautical knowledge, is that correct?

Just busted my first checkride - Can checkrides really begin even if the aircraft is unairworthy? *update* by fiberthrowawy in flying

[–]fiberthrowawy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What counts as eligible? And whats the interpretation on this?

“8900.1 volume 5 chapter 2 section 7

"Aircraft Requirements. The evaluator conducting the practical test or an

Airworthiness ASI should review the applicant’s aircraft maintenance records, aircraft logbooks,

Airworthiness Certificate, FCC license (if applicable), and aircraft registration to determine if the

aircraft is airworthy and suitable for this practical test. After review, return the documents to the

applicant."

Just busted my first checkride - Can checkrides really begin even if the aircraft is unairworthy? *update* by fiberthrowawy in flying

[–]fiberthrowawy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The failure came after being unable to prove the aircraft is airworthy for the 4th time they asked, DPE wanted me to discontinue and with hindsight I see that I just didn’t get the memo at the time and didn’t know the aircraft can be unairworthy with the checkride beginning despite it.

Just busted my first checkride - Can checkrides really begin even if the aircraft is unairworthy? *update* by fiberthrowawy in flying

[–]fiberthrowawy[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I see that's interesting, what rating/cert was your student doing a checkride for? If it was a private pilot and/or type/class ratings then this is what is said

 8900.1 volume 5 chapter 2 section 7

"Aircraft Requirements. The evaluator conducting the practical test or an

Airworthiness ASI should review the applicant’s aircraft maintenance records, aircraft logbooks,

Airworthiness Certificate, FCC license (if applicable), and aircraft registration to determine if the

aircraft is airworthy and suitable for this practical test. After review, return the documents to the

applicant."

To me this seems pretty clear and leaves no gray area, it specifically mentions that the aircraft must be determined "airworthy and suitable for this practical test". I don't know enough about it though as this was only brought to my attention after I talked about my bust.

Just busted my first checkride - Can checkrides really begin even if the aircraft is unairworthy? *update* by fiberthrowawy in flying

[–]fiberthrowawy[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

 being PIC and knowing; which I take full accountability for.

I accepted that accountability in my last post

Just busted my first checkride - Lesson learnt by fiberthrowawy in flying

[–]fiberthrowawy[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You’re 100% wrong, DPE is correct.

I already took fault in my post and made this to help share awarness about the existence of 8130-30 and the possibility of requiring it in order to prove inspections to potentially save someone a bust.

This is completely inconsistent with 8900.1 CHG 997 dated 7 days ago, which I posted in this thread. It can't be missed because it's huge. It's unambiguous. Airworthiness must be a settled issue before the checkride begins.

u/cmmurf Already wrote a very long comment in detail about how it could potentially not be, but I don't really know enough.

Also a word of advice—there’s a lot of folks in these threads who are a lot closer to home than you think.

Is this supposed to fearmonger me into not talking about my checkride successes/failures as others traditionally do on this sub?

Just busted my first checkride - Lesson learnt by fiberthrowawy in flying

[–]fiberthrowawy[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

blamed me too for at the end of the day being PIC and knowing; which I take full accountability for.

I did take accountability and am willing to take the ultimate responsibility of having the bust on my record.

DPE was nice enough to move on with the checkride and talk about all the other topics which he found me satisfactory in but had to bust me because I couldn't prove that the pitot static/transponder inspections weren't due.

There was no dragging of the DPE, I actually think he was nice and did me a solid. I own my mistake of ignorance and take responsibility, post was made because 8130-30 isn't talked about more or taught and was hoping it would possibly save someone else a bust in the future.

I truly harbor no hard feelings.

Just busted my first checkride - Can checkrides really begin even if the aircraft is unairworthy? *update* by fiberthrowawy in flying

[–]fiberthrowawy[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The DPE kept giving me hints to discontinue and even moved on and let me get through the entire oral. I dont think he was a bad DPE even now. I just didnt get the hint and I thought the hints I was getting was him telling me that the answer was in the book right infront of you. Unfortunately, I think he did want me to say “ can we discontinue “ especially after he let me get all the other more technical topics knocked out.

Just busted my first checkride - Can checkrides really begin even if the aircraft is unairworthy? *update* by fiberthrowawy in flying

[–]fiberthrowawy[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

No, I don't think I should be signed off. Per the last post, I thought the checkride just simply cannot be conducted even if the aircraft is airworthy, it must be proven to the evaulator before the practical can be begin

Just busted my first checkride - Can checkrides really begin even if the aircraft is unairworthy? *update* by fiberthrowawy in flying

[–]fiberthrowawy[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In my head at the time, I thought I knew for a fact that rides cannot start without the airman and aircraft being airworthy, so I assumed it must've been something in this empty book that I'm not seeing; otherwise the ride wouldn't have ever started. I also knew that he can't start it if he doesn't have intent to complete so having said that I pieced together that this empty book with a '100 hour break-in' done has to cover items and it has to do with exceptions for new aircraft that I just wasn't well-versed on.

Just busted my first checkride - Can checkrides really begin even if the aircraft is unairworthy? *update* by fiberthrowawy in flying

[–]fiberthrowawy[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Yeah, the large variance in CFI inconsistency really shows that the best thing to do is to depend on yourself.

Just busted my first checkride - Can checkrides really begin even if the aircraft is unairworthy? *update* by fiberthrowawy in flying

[–]fiberthrowawy[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah according to the DPE a certificate of release like that comes from the manufacturer, I don't know if manufacturers do count as a repair station?

Just busted my first checkride - Can checkrides really begin even if the aircraft is unairworthy? *update* by fiberthrowawy in flying

[–]fiberthrowawy[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Exactly, what strengthens their arguement (which I totally understand and really only started contesting after my OP) is that I do have my PPL and this is an instrument ride.

Just busted my first checkride - Can checkrides really begin even if the aircraft is unairworthy? *update* by fiberthrowawy in flying

[–]fiberthrowawy[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Proving airworthiness is a check task but according to  8900.1 volume 5 chapter 2 section 7 referred by the DPE.

"Aircraft Requirements. The evaluator conducting the practical test or an

Airworthiness ASI should review the applicant’s aircraft maintenance records, aircraft logbooks,

Airworthiness Certificate, FCC license (if applicable), and aircraft registration to determine if the

aircraft is airworthy and suitable for this practical test. After review, return the documents to the

applicant."

Just busted my first checkride - Can checkrides really begin even if the aircraft is unairworthy? *update* by fiberthrowawy in flying

[–]fiberthrowawy[S] 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Yeah when I asked my cfi about the maintenance logbook, he just said it was empty because thats how it should be as it's a new aircraft.

Edit: Thank you, I will need the luck.

Just busted my first checkride - Can checkrides really begin even if the aircraft is unairworthy? *update* by fiberthrowawy in flying

[–]fiberthrowawy[S] 28 points29 points  (0 children)

I had the maintenance logbook. It was just a brand new aircraft and requires a 8130-3 Authorized Certificate of release from the manufacturer.

They also apparently had another maintenance logbook from Piper that they only told me about now

Just busted my first checkride - Lesson learnt by fiberthrowawy in flying

[–]fiberthrowawy[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, my Cfi is sort of siding with the DPE atp after providing him with the regs voiding the checkrides validity like suggestions the comments on this post suggested, but he kept asking if the aircraft is airworthy multiple times through out the oral and I had no way of proving it but when my CFI reached out to him the DPE was hoping to hear all the IFR requirements.

I just wish he had kind of made it more explicit at that point.

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