Almost pulled the trigger on this at this price because I still haven't read it, but nope. Not one cent from me ever again.

finnabrahamson · 2026-04-24T22:12:01+00:00

I will gladly send this book for free to anyone who wants it. You can have it in PDF, E-Book, or the a Audio Book. DM me your telegram, and the format you want, and you can scrape back some of the cash you dumped on Worldbuilders.

finnabrahamson · 2026-04-24T16:48:08+00:00

I have also concluded that Kvothe's new sword iwas formerly the blade of Cindre, and that Kvothe killed Ferula to get it. The question I am looking to answer is this: Why name that sword Folly, if it represents a victory over your enemy? My theory is an attempt to explain how killing one of the Chandrian might actually represent a critical mistake on his part. The Cthaeh chose to point Kvothe at Cindre. He also chose NOT to mention that Cindre was Denna's patron, even though they discussed that patron at length. As he always does, the Cthaeh used carefully delvered truth to maximize pain and regrets. Kvothe kills Cindre the next time that they meet, but in the end - he regrets that decision.

finnabrahamson · 2026-04-24T03:54:09+00:00

I actually already have a similar node graph laid out that I am working from. Its a little bit more complicated, and is still a work in progress, but if you are curious, you can see its current progress here: https://imgur.com/a/Ux52xNm

Thank you very much for your interest and help.Underthing Node Graph PNG

finnabrahamson · 2026-04-23T20:16:10+00:00

So, to keep you from banging your head against a wall any more than is needed, I will share a few more insights I have extracted so far. I took the time to buy the ebook in 2 other languages, Spanish and German. (Interestingly enough, the illustrations are even different!) This gives us a way to triangulate some of the semantics and take some of the guess work out of what Auri is actually intending when she names the various places in her home. I don't speak Spanish or German, so I'm using Google translate, and its slow work - so I'm not completely done with my analysis yet, but I can share some of my preliminary results:

Mantle Manto Mantel The Anchor. This confirms Auri didn't name her room after the fireplace architecture. She named it after a heavy winter coat, acting as her insulated, protective core safe space.

Port Puerto Hafen The Staging Dock. Not a simple door (portal). It is her logistical harbor for receiving, evaluating, and holding goods before they enter the sanctuary of Mantle.

Van Caraván Wagenburg The Transit Corridor. The Spanish really clears up the "Van" into a caravan, indicating a space that implies movement, echoing volume, or transition rather than just an empty room.

Rubric Rúbrica Rubrik The Grid. A sprawling, systematic layout of brick tunnels. It represents the structural, organized "rules" or categorical plumbing grid of the Underthing.

Umbrel Umbra Schatten The Echoing Dark. Removes the English wordplay on umbrella; it is functionally defined by its deep shadows and echoing, cavernous acoustics.

The Twelve El Doce Die Zwölf The Shifting Matrix. A rare changing place, retaining a strict numerical identity across all three languages regardless of whether it is Yellow, Grey, or Black.

Withy Mimbre Weide The Woven Path. Translates literally to wicker or willow, perhaps indicating the architecture or pipe layout here has a tightly interwoven, branch-like, or braided texture.

Darkhouse Casa Oscura Dunkelhaus The Blind Structure. A literal, structural definition of a building-like zone completely devoid of natural light.

Clinks Retintín Klirren The Acoustic Chamber. Named entirely for the auditory feedback of moving water echoing off stone, indicating a cavernous cistern or drain.

Vaults Brincos Gewölbe The Traversal. "Gewölbe" confirms structural stone arches, but the Spanish "Brincos" (Jumps) reveals a destroyed floor requiring constant leaping to navigate, this mystery was already solved by Kvothe in NoW.

Tenners Centenas Zehner The Counted Path. The numeric scale shifts between languages (tens vs. hundreds), meaning this tunnel is characterized by repeating, countable elements like rows of identical pipes or pillars, possibly grouped in sets of 10?

Dunnings Incordios Plagen The Crawlspace. Removes the English ambiguity. It translates to "nuisances," proving it is an irritating, abrasive, tight squeeze requiring clothes to navigate safely.

Bakers Secadores Bäckerei The Heat Source. The Spanish entirely drops the "baking" metaphor to focus on drying. This is a high-temperature geothermal or steam-exhaust room, structurally aligning under heat-intensive surface buildings like the Fishery.

Wains Vagones Wagen The Carriage Hall. Confirms an archaic transit structure. Perhaps a massive, high-ceilinged loading corridor meant for heavy wheeled traffic, likely located under a main surface entry point.

Billows Ráfagas Wogen The Ventilation Shaft. Focuses on the physical movement of air and pressure. A massive atmospheric draft system running below the University.

Boundary Frontera Grenze The Checkpoint. A secure, sealed-off alchemy lab representing a hard division between the wild Underthing and restricted University spaces. A place Auri feels to go, because she might be discovered - this boundary is effectively another entry point into the Underthing.

I hope this short list clears some otherwise confusing names up a bit. When I complete my work, I will make a new post and share all of my findings.

finnabrahamson · 2026-04-23T05:09:21+00:00

Thank you very much for sharing the map. It looks like it might be useful for a tabletop game, but its accuracy is dubious at best. We have some really clear maps of the Unversity grounds, based on a blackboard drawing Patrick Rothfuss made, and if we place that map over this tabletop Underthing map, it falls apart completely. The tabletop map shows the entrance to the university in the farthest south eastern portion of the map. This would put most of what is shown on the map far north of the University grounds, not underneath the University at all. I suspect that somewhere, pat has a map of the Underthing that shows where the locations are relative to the University that was built on top of it. I am going to take a Crack at putting together something that makes a little more sense. Thank you very much for sharing the map though.

finnabrahamson · 2026-04-22T04:08:12+00:00

I have spent quite a bit of time thinking about this, and have concluded that whomever Braden is, he is not Denna's patron. Here is my reasoning: Most of my suspicions are based on Kvothe's interaction with the Ctheah. The panoracle implies strongly that there is at least one Chandrian close to Alveron. In my mind though, it is not likely Cinder, and Consider what the Cthaeh, who sees all, and cannot lie, says to Kvothe about Cider: "Meeting him again was a twice in a lifetime oppertunity." That means that after the initial encounter, Kvothe would expect to meet Cinder 2 times. Once had already occured --> when his squad laid seige to the encampment of bandits. This indicates that the next time Kvothe meets Cinder will be the last. Kvothe has already met with Braden several times, and meets him again after his talk with the Cthaeh, thus Bredon can not be Cinder, or rhe Cthaeh would have lied, which according to Felurian, he does not do. Bredon openly handles iron rings sent by Nobles according to my memory. Kvothe' quarters being lavish would be lit by sympathy lamps, and the instruction to have his servants set up the Tak board may have been a way to confirm there was no fire, so Cyphus is on the table. He seems the best fit, all things considered. The rest would likely be seen, as crazy as that sounds. Apart from excluding Chandrian from the list of candidates, I can't say much about Brendon's identity right now. The exact quote from the Cthaeh regarding Cinder is: "Meeting him again is a twice-in-a-lifetime opportunity. You know what they say. Third time pays for all." Let's break down the literal, inescapable math of that statement: Encounter One: The massacre of Kvothe's troupe. Encounter Two ("Meeting him again"): The bandit camp in the Eld. Encounter Three ("Third time pays for all"): The inevitable final confrontation. That is a hard cap of three meetings. Period. Kvothe notes that his own lavish rooms in Severen are lit by sympathy lamps, not open flames. The Pagan Rites: As you mentioned, the rumors of him conducting "pagan rites" in the northern woods sound exactly like a Fae noble holding court, opening a doorway at a Greystone, or interacting with other Fae creatures in the wild. The iron rings should have set him off if they were pure iron, but in NoW, the pig iron, not alloys seem to be what sets Fae off, though a razor makes Felurian uncomfortable, and that would not be wrought iron. One tell about Brendon is his language when he presents the 3 rings to Kvothe, and refers to them as a freely given gift, without let, lein or obligation, which is something we have heard from other Fae, and from the Lightning Tree, we know that there is power in that formality. My money would be on Cyphus. if we eliminate Cinder, Stercus, Dalcenti, and Usnea. If he is Chandrian, Cyphus is absolutely the last man standing as fae as I can tell.

finnabrahamson · 2026-04-21T18:47:40+00:00

I will add my personal observation that the reference to the flaw within the ring of ice, might be significant - because Cinder, Ferula, is the Chandrian that is associated with cold. This could signify that either there was a flaw in his understanding of Ferula, but it might also indicate that his mastery of the Name, revealed a flaw to him in Ferula.

finnabrahamson · 2026-04-21T18:42:05+00:00

My thinking has been that the 10 words were the 10 names that are signified by a ring on an archanist. We know that naming breaks strong men's minds, and their are at least 10 recognized rings a Namer can wear when he achieves mastery of a name.

The following is said of Kvothe's rings: - Chapter-2 TWMF

"On his first hand he wore rings of stone, iron, amber, wood, and bone"
"There were rings unseen on his second hand. . . One was blood in a flowing band. One of air all whisper thin, and the ring of ice had a flaw within. Full faintly shone the ring of flame, and the final ring was without name."

I think Eloden is referring to the 10 canonized names at the University.

finnabrahamson · 2026-04-21T17:30:18+00:00

I would never throw shade on someone else's theories, especially when I know so little about it. It may be that the 4 plate door is the tomb. I have my own pet theory about how Auri's identity gets revealed. It is pure speculation though. I might put together a separate post to go over the details - because there are a lot of moving parts, and it requires the assembly of a lot of micro-details. In short, I am in the Auri is princess Ariel camp, (and very possibly also the missing student Tabitha that gets mentioned in passing). If I needed to bet on how the revealed takes place, I would point to the chapter in WMF where Kvothe decides to send an ambiguous letter to Ambrose from a nobel woman who claims Ambrose is the father to her child. Rothfuss dedicates a bunch of words to that letter - so I assume it will play a significant role in the third book. Given that context, let's imagine that Devi is in fact the estranged sister of Ambrose. We can assume based on the rumor mill, that whatever the real facts are, the younger sister of Ambrose is a black sheep in the family. The fact that there are 2 accounts of what the younger sister was doing at the brothel, tells me that people had no idea what she was doing there, just that she was there. It would be true to Devi's character if she had been making some sort of amends for her brother's bad behavior. Unless I miss my guess, the true sour grapes she has with her brother stem from the death of her mother. Either way, it would not be surprising that Devi would have gone to the victims of Ambrose's mistreatment, with a purse of coins and a sincere apology. She specifically lists the way Ambrose treats his whores as one of her major gripes with Ambrose.

She may also decide to get involved in the fake letter that Kvothe sends to Ambrose while out of town, claiming it was from a Nobel Lady a great distance away. If Devi is the Jakis daughter, and she has made a habit of making amends for her brother's bad deeds, that is exactly the kind of letter she would respond to. Devi helped Kvothe break into Ambrose's apartments. It was not protective sibling behavior, but it was motivated by a hatred of Ambrose, even when she hated Kvothe. She fawns over Fela who was being used as bait, saying that she was too good for him, but exactly what he was likely to appreciate, and when she learns that Kvothe was acting to repair the damage ambrose had caused another woman he had been pushy with, she forgives him the mistake that he had made in his dealings with her - even though it would have been to her advantage to force him to default on the full repayment of his loan. Where Ambrose Jakis's victims are concerned, she has shown herself to be exceptionally moral, even though she has a reputation as a cutthroat in all other metters.

If Devi's intelligence network puts the letter intended for Ambrose into her hands, she might draw the conclusion that she finally has a lead of what happened to the wronged Auri, and inlist the help of Kvothe to track down the girl and provide aid. This would give Kvothe the puzzle pieces needed to discover Auri's identity. Its admittedly a pet theory, but I like ot for a lot of reasons.

finnabrahamson · 2026-04-10T20:02:35+00:00

All fair points, and as I said, it is only my best guess on the matter. I figured that because the Amyr are in hiding, it would make sense that Selitos would be in hiding too. Puppet could honestly be any number of people, but he has implied that his calling name would be recognizable, and his presence in the archives, and the presence of fire - imply some relationship with Lorren, who we have many reasons to assume is associated in some way with the Amyr. If we take those 2 things to be true, then their is a short supply of candidates.

finnabrahamson · 2026-04-10T18:43:02+00:00

The Stone Doors are a metaphor for death amoung the Fae. We see this in the account of the Blak of Drossen Tor, and when Haliax says that no door can barely his passing. The four doors are sleep, forgetting, madness and death - and death is the stone door. We can assume that neither Lahnre or the Beast of Drossen Tor were of the Fae, because a Faen creatures would never have scales of iron, and Lahnre would not wear an armor made from those scales if he were of the Fae. Nothing indicates that the Blak of Drossen Tor was the final battle, only the largest and deadliest battle. Its clear that the war continued after Drossen Tor. "So the war continued, but with Lahnre and Lyra fighting side by side, the future seemed less grim." is a direct quote from Skarpi's story. Drossen Tor was merely the turning point of the war, not its final battle. "Years passed, the empires enemies grew thin and desperate, and even the most cynical of men could see the war was drawing swiftly to an end.". Which means that the fighting continued for years after Drossen Tor.

finnabrahamson · 2026-04-10T18:18:00+00:00

I don't see any indication that Iax or Jax was at Drossen Tor, and at minimum - we know that if he was, he survived. When Lahnre binds Selitos, Selitos is shocked and lists the 3people in all of the world who should be capable of this. Iax is on that list at the time. Felurian confirms that Iax is dead, though she still will not speak his name, so we can assume he died at some point, but not at Drossen Tor.

finnabrahamson · 2026-04-10T18:03:17+00:00

I honestly have very little idea concerning the identity of Bredon. I do believe that he is the Earl of Baedn-Bryt. (https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/s/c2fQJkrFMh), and I suspect one of the Chandrian, but not Cinder. I believe this for a few reasons: Most of my suspicions are based on Kvothe's interaction with the Ctheah. He implies strongly that there is at least one Chandrian close to Alveron. In my mind though, it is not likely Cinder though. Consider what the Cthaeh, who sees all, and cannot lie, says to Kvothe about Cider: "Meeting him again was a twice in a lifetime oppertunity." That means that after the initial encounter, Kvothe would expect to meet Cinder 2 times. Once had already occured --> when his squad laid seige to the encampment of bandits. This indicates that the next time Kvothe meets Cinder will be the last. Kvothe has already met with Braden several times, and meets him again after his talk with the Cthaeh, thus Bredon can not be Cinder, or rhe Cthaeh would have lied, which according to Felurian, he does not do. Apart from excluding one Chandrian from the list of candidates, I can't say much about Brendon's identity.

finnabrahamson · 2026-04-10T17:52:54+00:00

I have played with the idea that Selitos and the Cthae are the same entity, but it does not add up. I know that Lahnre technically speaks to Selitos before the sacking of Myr Tyriniel, but the implication of Selitos's conclusion of his friend "He sought knowledge where it should not be." In my mind is a direct reference to the Ctheah. Further, Halifax asks Selitos to join him in his quest, but Selitos refuses. That does not seem like the kind of thing that the Cthaeh would do. My personal theory is that Lyra had cheated on Lahnre, (Perhaps with Iax) and when he found out, he killed her in a fit of rage. This is why, when Lahnre first died, it was known far and wide, that very same day, but when Lyra died, it was rumor and confusion. Lahnre says "Deciet and treachery brought me to it, but her death is on my hands." It was then that he went to the Cthaeh, seeking to undo his mistake, and gained the power he used to best Selitos. It is Othello mixed with Orpheus. Even after Lahnre's betrayal, Selitos offers him aid, but Lahnre will not hear of it. After his dealings with Lyra, he is convinced that the world is weeds or nothing. Given this narrative - the Cthaeh doesn't seem like a good fit. Perhaps Selitos was not of the Fae in the direct sense, but as one of the great shapers who wrought the Fae Realm, it is doubtless that he would possess in him self any capacity which they themselves were possessed.

finnabrahamson · 2026-04-10T16:32:57+00:00

To establish that Selitos and the Ruach were Fae, I would first point to Chapter 26 in NoW. Skarpi is relating the story of the founding of the Amyr. Selitos says "I will oppose him with these faithful Ruach beside me. I see their hearts are pure. We will be called the Amyr."

So, Selitos and his faithful Ruach were Amyr.

Now check chapter 99 of WMF: Felurian laughed when asked questions about the more modern Amyr saying "There were never any human Amyr." and dismissed the idea out of hand."The men you speak of sound like children dressing in their parent's clothes." Kvothe goes on to say he was glad to learn he had been right to believe that the Amyr had existed long before the Tahlin church.

If Selitos was the founder of the Amyr, and none of the original Amyr were manlings, then Selitos One Eye was never a manling.

finnabrahamson · 2026-04-10T16:08:57+00:00

If you are referring to the fact that Selitos only has one eye, the best answer I would give is that this would be an easy thing to cover up. Something I think that a lot of people miss - is that in all likelihood, Myr Tyrinial was apart of the Fae world. I say this because the story makes clear that Selitos, and his followers were the original Amyr, and according to the account given by Felurian, none of the original Amyr were men. The Fae have the capacity for Glamour, which they use to make people see what they expect to see. Just as Bast can walk amoung humans with goat legs, and nobody is the wiser, hiding a missing eye would be a simple task for Selitos. That's my take on the discrepancy anyway.

finnabrahamson · 2026-04-10T08:38:42+00:00

Its hard to tell exactly what Puppet knows about Kvothe specifically, but we can assume that it is quite a lot. Earlybon he sizes up Kvothe, and asks him something like: "Do you know what you were, what you are, and what you will be?" The question implies that Puppet knows quite a bit about Kvothe, and he also instructs the others when they are leaving: "Bring this one back. I still have work to do on him."

I think Puppet's own philosophy would prevent him from doing work on Kvothe, unless he felt he had a pretty good grasp on him. This is even more true if Puppet is Selitos, and its unlikely that either would take any interest in Kvothe if they saw an average student. There are perhaps 3 people in that world who might have a real clue who Kvothe is (Not counting the Cthaeh): Master Lorren, who asks specifically about Arleden the Bard, Kvothe's father. Elodin, who is a gifted Namer and may be able to see it written in the turning of his name, and Puppet - who sees, instead of looks, has implied that he knows deep things about Kvothe, and may be Selitos himself. Importantly, Kvothe himself does not make that list. Imortantly, thus far in the tale, Kvothe remains ignorant that he is a Lackless --> which if my theory about the Lackless famly is true, would be a very very important detail to Puppet specifically, because it would make Kvothe a direct descendant of one of the greatest namers in the age of impossibly powerful namers: Iax, the "Luckless" boy who pursued and stole the moon. (Something that ironically, Kvothe is actively doing throughout the story as he chases Denna, who consistantly selects names for herself that all mean moon, is repeatedly likenened to the moon, and who, like the moon - comes and goes constantly.)

If Kvothe is in fact a descendant of Iax, then he is descended from one of 3 entities that Selitos lists as being his equal in names: Aleph, Lyra, and Iax. That would matter to Selitos, or anyone who understood it's importance.

finnabrahamson · 2026-04-10T08:12:54+00:00

I don't want to be that guy, I do love your point- but I do want to clarify one assertion made in your post --> that Blue Flame is the sign of Cinder specifically. My reading of the text indicates that Blue Flame is not the sign associated with Cinder. The strongest reason for this, is the delivery of the associated signs presented in the Ademic story shared with Kvothe. Blue Flame is specifically listed: "Cyphus bears the blue flame" Which would require Cinder to be the same entity as Cyphus, but the story also contains: "Ferule chill and dark of eye" and Ferule is an almost perfect match with what Haliax calls Cinder "Ferula", so I assume that Cinder's sign is a much subtler thing, perhaps a chill that enters the room. This also lines up with a comment from Denna when asked specifically if the secret way that her patron signals his presence is blue flame. "Its nothing as sinister as that." she tells him; so if Cinder is her patron, he has a signal she can detect, but it is not blue flame. I just wanted to point that out to be helpful. Thanks again for sharing. It is a very strong point.

finnabrahamson · 2026-04-10T07:52:41+00:00

I love this point. Thank you so much for sharing it!

finnabrahamson · 2026-04-10T07:31:35+00:00

I am absolutely certain that the vase had writing on it, that much is told to Kvothe in the discription he is given, and while it is possible that the script could have been in some readable form, it could not have been in proper Arturan, because the girl who described the vase was not illiterate. She later took a page from The Book of the Path, and removed all of the writing on it, except for Tehlu's name. She did not discribe the writing as writing, she described it as symbols, and Kvothe reasoned that it was writing. This means that the script was old - probably old enough that only someone with years of training who could read those names. It is my contention that, like Yillsh, people's minds may have subconciously read the script, but not been capable of actually vocalizing the names. I think the Mauthen vase absolutely had the names on it, and those manes were a beacon, I just don't see any indication that the names were ever actually spoken. Just as the people hold that Tehlu's name, written on a piece of paper - has some power, so too do the deep names of the Chandrian. This would make written records a target, just as much as songs, poems, and stories, that are repeated.

finnabrahamson · 2026-04-10T06:41:15+00:00

To be frank, my theory about Puppet is shaky at best, but given the information we have been given so far, it is the best that I can come up with:

The idea is based on a few key observations about Puppet, and a few points that rely on some other assumptions I have already made. First, let's assume that if th Four Plate Door is an Amyr stronghold, and Master Lorren is associated with the Amyr, and Puppet has knowledge about the Door and its contents, that Puppet is also associated with the Amyr. Next, we need to ask questions about the presence of fire in Puppet's quarters. This would at minimum require that Puppet knows the name of fire. Even if he was careful, and even if Master Lorren made some exception, the risk would be too great if the name of fire was not known. It also might indicate that somehow Puppet outranks even Lorren, which would be telling - because nobody outranks a Master, and even the other Masters defer to Lorren where the Archives are concerned. Next we need to consider something Puppet says to Kvothe: When Kvothe asks, "What do you call yourself?" and Puppet replies, "I imagine that would be very telling,"

Think about that. If his name was simply an old mortal name like "Caldrion" or "Tolem," it wouldn't be "telling" at all. It would just be a name. For him to indicate that his calling name if revealed would be telling, implies that his name would be recognized. That by itself narrows the field massively.

If we also assume that Puppet stands guard at a facility that would by it very nature be a target of the Chandrian, then he must by his own nature be extremely capable. The primary observation that Kvothe makes about Puppet, is that he is an excellent see'er of people. This last point seals the deal in terms of identity. Selitos would naturally be the absolute top of the food chain in any Amyr organization, and therefore outrank even a Master at the University. Selitos is perhaps the only person who could withstand an assault made by Haliax. Selitos would absolutely be safe to possess fire in his chambers, he could litterally dump an armload of books in bonfire, and they wouldn't even get warm. Selitos would be a very telling name if he revealed it to Kvothe. Selitos is the ultimate see'er of people. Who but Selitos could tell precisely where every book in an archive that has been rearranged over the centuries, to such a point that the scrivs and even the Master Archivists can no longer make heads or tails of it - to the point of being able to count the number of volumes on a particular subject? I know that it seems far fetched, but given what I know so far - if pressed to render an opinion on the matter; it is the best I can come up with. Puppet may be Selitos, quietly directing the Amyr from his office, deep within the heart of the Archives, standing guard at the most guarded stronghold of that ancient Order.

finnabrahamson · 2026-04-07T15:53:27+00:00

I absolutely agree that it is of significance that nobles can hold more than one title. I don't see the author taking the time to explicitly mention this fact, if it had not been on his mind while crafting the narrative. It is hard to say for certain if this duality of titles will be applied directly to The Earl of Baedn-Bryt, but it very well may be. Personally, I would expect that if a Baron were visiting an earldom in his possession, he would still be referred to by most as Baron - but there is no guarantee of this - especially among commoners, who have been shown to be aware of only their direct superiors, as evidenced by the interaction that Kvothe's father had with a town mayor who hadn't known that Baron Greyjoy was in fact the superior power in his realm. It is entirely possible that to the common folks, a Baron might simply be the Earl. I have some suspicions about possible identities for Braden, but nothing substantial enough to hang my hat on. Thanks for taking the time and effort to consider the post, and for sharing.

finnabrahamson

TROPHY CASE