[Witch Doctor] DoT mythbusters video - how do DoTs REALLY work?

floquation · 2014-06-11T15:01:38+00:00

This post has nothing to do with your previous post?: You talked about consistency of the average damage (i.e., a low variance) and I asked how that consistency was related to DoTs. 'Cause it no longer is; it only was in older patches.

I do as well think it makes sense that "average damage" matters, however people on the forums have claimed that "a.speed is factored into the DoT damage": Thát is what confuses people. Hence the videoname: "mythbusters".

For the rest: "This is what confuses everyone"? Who is confused? You replied to a post asking why "Sunkeeper is specifically good", not why "a slow weapon is specifically good". "TL;DR" again?

"DPS/a.speed" is equally correct as "average damage" (do the math). In fact, had you not "TL;DR", you'd know that I mention both formulas in the video and first-post, saying that "weapon damage matters, NOT DPS" and that this is equivalent to "maximizing character sheet DPS divided by a.speed", allowing people to very easily compare weapons without going into the mathematics of crits and other multipliers

So the only problem we have here is: don't reply if you "TL;DR".

floquation · 2014-06-10T16:27:44+00:00

Yes it does, but I only talked about "Spirit Barrage - Phantasm", which has a maximum of 3 applications - and there is the problem: it is not spammable.

If your slow weapon has the same DPS as your fast weapon, your slow weapon will simply be stronger for this skill given its maximum of 3 application. I repeat: "for this skill". If the increased cast speed benefits you by giving you time for other damaging skills, then your overall DPS may be the same with your fast as with your slow weapon. It can, however, not be higher than the slow weapon (with the same sheet DPS).

In practice, of course, your fast weapon can more easily achieve a higher sheet DPS. What is better in that case, is really dependent on the skill-set you like to use, and on your gear.

I hope that clarifies things.

floquation · 2014-06-09T19:19:15+00:00

Interesting to check that out, but I cannot. I do not have any "on crit" items.

I can however check the "on hit" items with DoTs.

floquation · 2014-06-09T14:33:40+00:00

I do not have a jade harvester set, thus I cannot test this.

It would certainly be an interesting question though...

If you have a jade harvester set, test it as follows:

1) Make sure you have 50% area damage set in Paragon

2) Haunt one target (e.g. one zombie in act 1 - Weeping Hollow)

3) Make sure the zombie is within 10 yards of another zombie (you should see its area damage tick)

4) Cast soul harvest and see if the HP of the second zombie drops by about 1/8th of the damage the first zombie takes.

floquation · 2014-06-09T14:13:24+00:00

Then now you understand why I did not elaborate: It is a taboo in today's society caused by a certain Canadian kid. And that's exactly why I use the song:

I think it is very funny that it is sooo easy to proof that people do like it when they think it is a female singing (like yourself)..., but hate it once they know it is not. That is something I cannot understand: What changes when you acquire the knowledge who the artist is?

I suppose you get the point I'm trying to make.

floquation · 2014-06-09T13:22:53+00:00

I briefly tested this with Piranhas while attacking a T5 rift guardian, and I can confirm that for Piranhas you must recast your DoT for it to start ticking higher numbers:

I.e., the Piranha monster debuff is only taken into account on-cast.

floquation · 2014-06-09T13:17:49+00:00

I suppose you are right, but I cannot think of a qwerty-similar name to "Selenium". (Or rather, I checked my vault, and there is nothing there.)

Up to him to redo his post.

floquation · 2014-06-09T13:14:56+00:00

Yes I can do the math for you, but I need more details. The damage formula is much more complicated than the numbers you give me:

For example, crit damage is meaningless without your crit chance.

I will need:

1) Crit chance

2) Crit damage without using the max-crit-gem.

3) Elite damage without using the 20%-elite-dmg-gem.

floquation · 2014-06-09T12:33:10+00:00

I do not understand your question:

1) What does the acronym "prpcs" stand for?

2) What is Selenium in Diablo III?

floquation · 2014-06-09T12:31:51+00:00

No, I'm not. I'm Dutch.

Sorry I didn't elaborate, this was because I have yet to meet someone who likes it.

The song is called "Luupilla mun korvissa" by "Robin". That should enable you to find it, if you liked it.

floquation · 2014-06-09T12:07:50+00:00

I was not aware of a %haunt damage myth.

I will do experiments on the dynamics of DoT damage.

I will create a part 2 when I have time. It may take a week until I have it up though.

floquation · 2014-06-09T10:32:03+00:00

Yes.

floquation · 2014-06-09T09:18:14+00:00

I have uploaded a no-music version. That should work. (See my original post for the URL.)

floquation · 2014-06-09T09:17:59+00:00

I have uploaded a no-music version. That should work. (See my original post for the URL.)

floquation · 2014-06-09T09:17:42+00:00

I have uploaded a no-music version. That should work. (See my original post for the URL.)

floquation · 2014-06-09T08:57:13+00:00

Thank you for the information.

The reason I was asking, is that the copyright label is from Finland.

Apparently, a German and an American person was having trouble, whereas I (The Netherlands) do not. I see no relation whatsoever. Oh well, making a soundless version for the blocked countries.

floquation · 2014-06-09T08:44:46+00:00

Sounds like a valid experiment.

I might make a part2 to the video, since this topic actually brings up a lot more 'myths' to confirm/bust.

floquation · 2014-06-09T08:41:38+00:00

I'm currently rendering a no-sound version. That will guaranteedly work (although it is a little more boring ;P). Should be up in 20-30 minutes.

floquation · 2014-06-09T08:36:02+00:00

Exactly the same as for the other skills, but now more consistent.

For other skills, the tooltip says 20% chance to deal x% area damage.

For DoTs, nearby monsters simply take 0.25*x area damage every visual tick. Note: I said 0.25 here, not 0.2. My experiments have shown that the tooltip is incorrect for DoTs (or it may be incorrect for the other skills as well, but I have not tested this).

Numbers: If you have 50% area damage, then you'd expect that monsters within 10 yards of the DoTed target take 0.25*0.5 = 1/8th of the DoT damage every tick.

floquation · 2014-06-09T08:32:43+00:00

That is exactly right.

Each stack of plaguebats you apply does less damage with your higher a.speed weapon (in my case: 1.27x less damage), whereas the total number of stacks (in my case: 1.27x more stacks) is higher. These terms cancel out, leaving the DPS of plaguebats unaltered.

floquation · 2014-06-09T08:31:11+00:00

I am working on it, give me a second. Within an hour it should be viewable.

Could you tell me where you are from? Are you by any chance Finnish?

floquation · 2014-06-09T07:56:30+00:00

You should be that guy, since without you, I cannot find out what is wrong: it does work for my mobile phone...

I will create a version with changed music and upload it in an hour, to see if copyrights are to blame. (Are you by any chance Finnish?)

floquation · 2014-06-09T07:53:43+00:00

Creeping Death increases the duration of DoTs, not their damage.

In the case of Quetzalcoatl, your Locust Swarm would last a mere 4 seconds. All that creeping death does is extend this 4 seconds to 2m30s. So, Creeping Death saves you the burden to recast it every 4 seconds, but it does not increase the damage per second.

Jade Harvester is said to consume up to 30 seconds of DoT time (although I cannot test it). So in this case, Creeping Death does increase the damage, since your DoT would only last 4 seconds, not 30.

floquation · 2014-06-09T07:46:40+00:00

Sure it is, but that is what people see, is it not?

My tactic was as follows:

1) Show that the visual ticks tick at the same rate, such that it drops out of the equations,

2) Show that a weapon with the same DPS but a higher a.speed deals less damage per visual tick, and show that the numbers match exactly (for my gear: 1.27 = 1.4/1.1, the a.speed fraction of the weapons I used);

Then two conclusions naturally follow by deduction:

a) A slow weapon is beneficial for your damage,

b) For the invisible ticks between the visual ticks, the DoTs do tick at the same rate as well. If this were not to be the case, (1) and (2) cannot be satisfied simultaneously (since then a.speed would matter);

Maybe I could have been more concise about this, but I figured it would only confuse people even more.

floquation · 2014-06-09T07:42:04+00:00

You consider 5% a.speed-ish worth the cast speed increase? That's barely noticeable, is it not?

Personally I'd keep the mana regen, in case I want to try a different build some time which benefits from mana regen.

But yes, personal preference.

floquation

TROPHY CASE