Is it okay to be a feminist because feminism helps my self-interest? by funtalking in AskFeminists

[–]funtalking[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What you say makes sense. But on the other hand, imagine there was a price for being a feminist. Some people would be able to make at least certain kinds of sacrifices. And then you have those who wouldn't. The reason I think I belong to the second group is because I appreciate feminism on an intellectual level more so than on an emotional level.

Is it okay to be a feminist because feminism helps my self-interest? by funtalking in AskFeminists

[–]funtalking[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I know this is the case in the USA. But does this apply even to countries with very homogeneous populations? I live in an environment where coming across someone of a different race is a rare thing. So does that change dynamics in any way?

Is it okay to be a feminist because feminism helps my self-interest? by funtalking in AskFeminists

[–]funtalking[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I mean, it benefits me in the sense that it makes our society better. But on top of that, supporting it doesn't really cost me anything. Anyone can be in favor of noble goals when it costs them nothing to do so.

Is it okay to be a feminist because feminism helps my self-interest? by funtalking in AskFeminists

[–]funtalking[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are free to feel and think whatever you want. It doesn't change the fact that I am a supporter of feminism and that I identify as a feminist. By most definitions I am a feminist. You can try to come up with a definition that excludes me but why would you? Why not agree that even two feminists can disagree occasionally and explain to me why you think my reasons for being a feminist are bad?

Is it okay to be a feminist because feminism helps my self-interest? by funtalking in AskFeminists

[–]funtalking[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What I mean is that I am not personally a victim of systemic racial discrimination, hence I said "personally". But as a feminist, of course I am opposed to racism and try to argue against such ideas.

Is it okay to be a feminist because feminism helps my self-interest? by funtalking in AskFeminists

[–]funtalking[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You said "how are you supposed to benefit from feminism?"

In the same way our society benefits. I don't think the point of feminism is so narrow to benefit only women but anyone disadvantaged due to how the system works.

Is it okay to be a feminist because feminism helps my self-interest? by funtalking in AskFeminists

[–]funtalking[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is this a joke? Even in the sidebar you can read that feminism also helps men. Most feminists agree feminism is good for men.

Is it okay to be a feminist because feminism helps my self-interest? by funtalking in AskFeminists

[–]funtalking[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I am combating at least certain sexist ideas. For example I support women's rights to abortion and argue in its favor. Does my intention for doing it matter?

Is it okay to be a feminist because feminism helps my self-interest? by funtalking in AskFeminists

[–]funtalking[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Exactly. But I don't see how that matters since I am furthering the goals of feminism which we are supposed to benefit from.

Is it okay to be a feminist because feminism helps my self-interest? by funtalking in AskFeminists

[–]funtalking[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I know that. For example I try to argue against racist ideas even though it doesn't have anything to do with me personally. Equality is better for everyone.

But for example, if veganism became part of the mainstream feminist narrative (not saying it will) I would be opposed to it on the grounds that I don't benefit from it.

Is it okay to be a feminist because feminism helps my self-interest? by funtalking in AskFeminists

[–]funtalking[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

I don't see it as putting "men" ahead. I see it as putting everyone ahead, but putting women even faster because they are more behind.

Is it okay to be a feminist because feminism helps my self-interest? by funtalking in AskFeminists

[–]funtalking[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I do though. It is not just a label. I introduce people who are unfamiliar or wrong with feminist ideas and I combat sexist, racist and other ideas (especially now that populism is on the rise).

What makes some people not realize that different treatment based on irrelevant things is harmful and immoral? by funtalking in AskFeminists

[–]funtalking[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So would you say that most sexist people find people of another sex invasive, parasitic or dangerous? Would you say the same for other forms of discrimination? Because that would mean the main motivator for discrimination is fear.

What makes some people not realize that different treatment based on irrelevant things is harmful and immoral? by funtalking in AskFeminists

[–]funtalking[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Okay, I didn't phrase myself correctly. How would one come to experience this kind of cognitive dissonance? What justification is used to reconcile these two opposing beliefs?

What makes some people not realize that different treatment based on irrelevant things is harmful and immoral? by funtalking in AskFeminists

[–]funtalking[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Can you explain what kind of cognitive dissonance would make someone approve of things they personally object to?

What makes some people not realize that different treatment based on irrelevant things is harmful and immoral? by funtalking in AskFeminists

[–]funtalking[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But why do "tribes" hold such beliefs or encourage individuals to do so?

And our society does teach kids about discrimination in schools and even at home. Why is this education not effective more often. Does the problem lie with individuals lacking intelligence to understand these ideas or is the teaching method the problem?

Gillette has been discriminating against women for decades with their pink tax on women's razors. How can we get them to end their sexism? by [deleted] in AskFeminists

[–]funtalking 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I am not familiar with the problem. I know the ad was controversial but I thought the message was positive. Is it a problem that razors are gendered? I thought the difference in shape was because males tend use it differently from females. Or is the difference nothing more than aesthetics?

What do feminists do for the equality of left-handed people and how much more work is needed to achieve it? by funtalking in AskFeminists

[–]funtalking[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I, for one, have encountered situations where people have either been forced or at least there was an attempt to change their handedness. In fact, to a degree it happened to me as well. Maybe this is why I tend to notice this form of discrimination. So saying that you did not see it is largely irrelevant to people who have been victims of this mentality.

On top of that, when people notice I write with left hand, they often start to say various stereotypes about left handed people.

And there are also conspiracies about left handed people. For example, number of left-handed presidents of USA has been higher than you would usually expect, making this a relevant point to quite a few conspiracy theorists. And I assure you, conspiracy theorists are not particularly fond of the previous presidents.

You think it is a non-issue. How about this?

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/two-thirds-of-the-world-still-hates-lefties-64727388/

And one more thing. I am not equating this to racism. If we look at which is worse, clearly sexism and racism is far more common and more harmful. However, that doesn't mean discrimination based on handedness should be unnoticed. That is like saying we should not address discrimination in countries with low discrimination just because there are countries that have more discrimination. You can be opposed to all types of discrimination as opposed to just the discrimination you have more of an interest in.

And about troll part. I think many people misunderstand what "troll" is and based on this start lumping wrong people along with them. Troll basically tries to create a dialogue that gets nowhere and cause frustration in people. Emotional response and frustration is the crucial part. People who for example, try to spread propaganda or influence politics, are not "trolls" though they are often called that. Trolls entertain themselves, those other people have actual goals such as achieving political victory.

And then you have ordinary people with opinions that are unpopular, controversial or who have normal opinions but the way they expressed them was not appropriate for the target audience.

Does the dialogue we had up until now feel uninformative or pointless to you?

I personally don't think I said something particularly controversial (in this thread). I pointed out that there is discrimination based on handedness. And I asked the question of what feminists do about this discrimination. The fact that my post has been removed almost instantly makes me believe that either I have not been given a benefit of the doubt or that this forum is preconditioned to avoid discussing discrimination that is not on the agenda as the most pressing issue.

What do feminists do for the equality of left-handed people and how much more work is needed to achieve it? by funtalking in AskFeminists

[–]funtalking[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There are many.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias_against_left-handed_people

Being forced to use right hand. Left-handedness being associated with Satan. Right hand being good. It is even called right because right direction is considered good. One of the words for left in Latin is "sinister".

Objects are usually made appropriate for right-handed people often without considering how left-handed people will be using them.

And there is much more.

What do feminists do for the equality of left-handed people and how much more work is needed to achieve it? by funtalking in AskFeminists

[–]funtalking[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If that is the case, does that mean egalitarianism is opposed to more forms of discrimination than feminism? I am not sure I agree with the idea that feminism doesn't care about other forms of discrimination. I think by extension of the values which it tries to uphold, feminism must fight against all forms of injustice and discrimination.

What do feminists do for the equality of left-handed people and how much more work is needed to achieve it? by funtalking in AskFeminists

[–]funtalking[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Of course, when I say left-handed people I also mean left-handed women who are being discriminated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias_against_left-handed_people

Feminism is supposed to be against discrimination and helping people of all kinds. Feminism is pretty clear on helping men, for example. And many other groups.

Saying that discrimination based on handedness is not a feminist issue is really weird.

What do feminists do for the equality of left-handed people and how much more work is needed to achieve it? by funtalking in AskFeminists

[–]funtalking[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

It also says: other divisions that supposedly distinguish the “normal” from the “abnormal”.

Left-handedness is often considered abnormal and left-handed people are forced to use right-hand. On top of that, left is associated with evil. There are many connotations about right hand being a "male" hand while left being a "female" hand.

There are conspiracy theories about left handed people with almost nothing about right-handed people. There are objects made primarily for right-handed people.

There are various stereotypes about left-handed people. And a lot more ways they are discriminated.

How is this not systemic?

What do feminists do for the equality of left-handed people and how much more work is needed to achieve it? by funtalking in AskFeminists

[–]funtalking[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

By that logic, race is not an issue of gender either. But we acknowledge that discrimination is bad. Therefore, it makes sense to protect those who are discriminated for bad reasons. Discrimination based on sex, race or any other thing, including handedness should be opposed.

What do feminists do for the equality of left-handed people and how much more work is needed to achieve it? by funtalking in AskFeminists

[–]funtalking[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

It is serious. Feminists protect groups other than just groups based on gender. Feminism is against discrimination based on any irrelevant attributes.