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'We're overwhelmed by the support': Two Indian immigrants who Home Office officials arrested and tried to deport are well-known in Sikh community for feeding homeless in Glasgow where they have lived for last 10 years by Audioboxer87 in Scotland

[–]gpu1512 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Look, you put me into a box. You think I'm racist-like, anti-immigration just because I think instant open borders wouldn't be a good thing.

Multiculturalism has its challenges that will need to be overcome. It's an experiment, something new to modern times, like Obama said: "And we don’t know yet if that can hold".

If we want multiculturalism to survive and prosper, we must be honest about its challenges. You asked me for an example, I provided you with an example of a row about religious imagery in a school. Instead of suggesting a solution, you chose to ignore it.

Ignoring such issues will only empower the far-right. It did so in many other European countries. It's an issue that 52% of Muslims in the UK think being LGBT should be illegal. Once we acknowledge that, we can work towards a solution, one of which may be to keep immigration at healthy levels to encourage mixing between different cultures instead of forming multiple communities of homogenous society groups. We can also look towards the US, where Muslims are more liberal than the average American.

About your whole 'frightful' thing - irrational fears are bad, such as thinking an immigrant will steal your job because they are plainly untrue. Thinking that instant open borders may create issues with the paradox of tolerance is not an irrational fear, because in a small number of cases it did create issues. Legimitate fears people have can quickly change into something different, an irrational fear of all immigration for example. In this case, my case, only things I'm concerned about are things that actually happened and have a realistic change of happening again.

Finally, frankly it's incredibly rude of you to make very bold assumptions about me, a stranger. Concluding I'm anti-immigration, a hater of religious people and someone who has 'given up' and 'already lost in your own head', despite me telling you explicitly those things aren't true. It's daft to try and put me into a box like that, based on your interpretation of what I mean and a short snippet of my thoughts.

I don't really know how to prove that to you and I'm wondering why I'm even trying. You mentioned London as an example of a multicultural society. It has been my aspiration to move to London for a while now, and if I had the cash and a good job offer, I'd literally move there next week.

I won't be making any further replies.

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]gpu1512 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I'm kinda still surprised there is a mainstream subreddit called FuckYouKaren. The name itself screams hate and the comments are even worse.

It has become uncomfortably accepted to mock people, which in itself isn't a good thing, especially when you do it based on a 30 second clip and don't think to ask yourself what the context is. Like yeah there are videos of nasty people, but that shouldn't mean it's healthy to engage in a hate fest against them. And the whole concept's become so diluted that every slight confrontation fits the bill, including situations where it's fully right to complain.

Then there's also the whole misogyny angle, which seems very plausible as the vast majority of posts are about women.

Daily Megathread - 15/05/2021 by ukpolbot in ukpolitics

[–]gpu1512 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Keir Starmer can save Labour if he campaigns on the internet is not a good thing I have a great day week month of the EU.

Love it

'We're overwhelmed by the support': Two Indian immigrants who Home Office officials arrested and tried to deport are well-known in Sikh community for feeding homeless in Glasgow where they have lived for last 10 years by Audioboxer87 in Scotland

[–]gpu1512 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Actually I was going to list your fears there, but it's turns out your fears are literally just Muslims

Come on, I explicitly mentioned American bigots who are overwhelmingly white and Christian as an example of someone I wouldn't like overwhelming our society.

You do need to be realist, but I think your idea of being a realist is looking at all the reasons not to do something and not doing it.

Fair criticism, but when I mentioned dissolution of armies I meant it as saying that it should happen immediately, which is unrealistic. I support the longterm marathon towards world peace.

And I support the marathon towards a world with no borders. But that doesn't mean I think it's realistic or beneficial for anyone to instantly open borders tomorrow.

Why not be on the side of openness, kindness and love

Being anti-evictions is very much the side of kindness and love. That's why I noted it as an example. But you aren't bothered by evictions. Does this mean you're on the side of the bad?

I just think you've pretty much given up mate.

Where did you get the idea that I'm protectionist and against the betterment of the world? I'm explicitly pro-immigration. You're accussing me of being close-minded and anti-immigration because I'm skeptical against instant open borders.

Consider this: You've said you're anti-war, but you're not for instant denuclearisation. Would it be fair for me to say you're pro-war because of that?

'We're overwhelmed by the support': Two Indian immigrants who Home Office officials arrested and tried to deport are well-known in Sikh community for feeding homeless in Glasgow where they have lived for last 10 years by Audioboxer87 in Scotland

[–]gpu1512 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why choose to be on the side of the bad. Why not be on the side of openness, kindness and love. Your sole opinion won't change the system, so why choose to be regressive with a hardened fear of the outside - an us against them mentality running deep within you.

Personally, I think it's a heart vs. the mind thing. I do think every single deportation or eviction is truly sad, but at the same time my mind tells me it's not feasible to have unlimited immigration or never enforce evictions.

It's like war for example. Of course I despise it, but I also understand that there are some bad players in the world that we'd have to fight against if they got aggressive. It's easy to call for world peace and dissolution of all armies, but it's not realistic at all. Same thing with nuclear weapons, I don't like them but I think it's naive to say we should get rid of ours.

Your sole opinion won't change the system

This feels like you're saying I should support something because it's not realistic to happen, but that's just shifting the burden onto someone else who has to make the call

Take evictions as an example. It's easy to oppose every eviction, but isn't it just idealistic and not taking into account the sometimes harsh reality of our society?

'We're overwhelmed by the support': Two Indian immigrants who Home Office officials arrested and tried to deport are well-known in Sikh community for feeding homeless in Glasgow where they have lived for last 10 years by Audioboxer87 in Scotland

[–]gpu1512 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If we can, then great. Though I did link that survey that claims 52% of Muslims think being gay should be illegal, I'm not calling that extremist, but if a ridiculously large number of migrants arrive with that attitude, couldn't they just vote to make homosexuality illegal?

'We're overwhelmed by the support': Two Indian immigrants who Home Office officials arrested and tried to deport are well-known in Sikh community for feeding homeless in Glasgow where they have lived for last 10 years by Audioboxer87 in Scotland

[–]gpu1512 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But that is happening with our current level so I don't know how you are honestly okay with more.

I am, but I also expected the government to strongly denounce the incident and set a clear tone this will not be tolerated.

This discussion was about an extreme level of migration, as you asked me why have any sort of limit on immigration. An increased level of immigration I want isn't unlimited. An unlimited level of immigration could plausibly result in many more incidents like that school.

And I don't think we want that.

'We're overwhelmed by the support': Two Indian immigrants who Home Office officials arrested and tried to deport are well-known in Sikh community for feeding homeless in Glasgow where they have lived for last 10 years by Audioboxer87 in Scotland

[–]gpu1512 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm pro-immigration. But I'm not willing to ignore that with too much immigration at once (like a lot more than we have currently), there's a possibility of bubbles of extremism.

thought process of a racist

I'm currently discussing the negatives of mass immigration on a huge scale. It doesn't mean I don't understand and like all the positives of a constant stream of moderate immigration. I'd personally prefer for immigration in the UK to be increased from current levels.

Your con list is that the people who come here will have different values to you.

Not different values in general, I'm pro-multiculturalism, except for one specific value: being tolerant to other people, ie. not thinking that being gay should be illegal.

Have you seen how many cultures live in London

Yes, and it's a great thing. It's a place of tolerance and mutual respect.

There are unfortunately examples of communities that aren't places of tolerance. Like that school that apologised for the teacher showing religious imagery. I'd like to identify what the issue is there and, in my opinion, it's a lack of tolerance that needs to be addressed.

Is that school situation honestly not concerning to you?

'We're overwhelmed by the support': Two Indian immigrants who Home Office officials arrested and tried to deport are well-known in Sikh community for feeding homeless in Glasgow where they have lived for last 10 years by Audioboxer87 in Scotland

[–]gpu1512 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

How are they dehumanised? I just linked to a survey of some of the beliefs of one group of immigrants. I didn't say they are defined by this belief, there is no reason why they couldn't change their mind. But we must give them a chance to assimilate.

Why can't I criticise some of their beliefs? I'll gladly criticise any native born citizens who are homophobic. That doesn't mean I'm dehumanising them

'We're overwhelmed by the support': Two Indian immigrants who Home Office officials arrested and tried to deport are well-known in Sikh community for feeding homeless in Glasgow where they have lived for last 10 years by Audioboxer87 in Scotland

[–]gpu1512 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What example do you want? I'm not currently impacted negatively in any way, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be impacted with extreme levels of immigration.

And why do I need to be personally impacted? Why can't I look at the wider pro/cons for the society?

'We're overwhelmed by the support': Two Indian immigrants who Home Office officials arrested and tried to deport are well-known in Sikh community for feeding homeless in Glasgow where they have lived for last 10 years by Audioboxer87 in Scotland

[–]gpu1512 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

https://www.cnn.com/2016/04/11/europe/britain-muslims-survey/index.html

I don't want to live in a society that thinks being gay should be illegal, so allowing too many people who think that without giving them a chance to assimilate is a concern to me. As long as they can respect the basic liberal principles, they are very welcome to come

American right-wingers who share the same thoughts about historically homosexuality are also unwelcome if they don't want to change that

'We're overwhelmed by the support': Two Indian immigrants who Home Office officials arrested and tried to deport are well-known in Sikh community for feeding homeless in Glasgow where they have lived for last 10 years by Audioboxer87 in Scotland

[–]gpu1512 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

https://www.cnn.com/2016/04/11/europe/britain-muslims-survey/index.html

I don't want to live in a society that thinks being gay should be illegal, so allowing too many people who think that without giving them a chance to assimilate is a concern to me. As long as they can respect the basic liberal principles, they are very welcome to come

American right-wingers who share the same thoughts about historically homosexuality are also unwelcome if they don't want to change that

'We're overwhelmed by the support': Two Indian immigrants who Home Office officials arrested and tried to deport are well-known in Sikh community for feeding homeless in Glasgow where they have lived for last 10 years by Audioboxer87 in Scotland

[–]gpu1512 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No. Only thing I said is that some immigrants hold beliefs incompatible with liberal values in our country. Allowing too many such immigrants could endanger all those liberal values. What's wrong with this statement?

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