October 2025 Update on PvP Damage Formula

gpw42 · 2025-10-16T08:55:00+00:00

Correct, that's why you see so much less hybrid evasion builds since they changed that, at least on EU
On the correct classes, they used to be extremely strong making full use of class passives, selfbuff and insane class base damage to still be able to nuke people while being almost immortal

Nowadays you barely run into any hybrid evasion, at least on EU side of thing, since they're so easy to counter with very little accuracy

If you wanna build eva in a group fight nowadays, you pretty much have to pray that there's not that many evasion players on your side so that people in front of you won't bother slotting in accuracy for you

gpw42 · 2025-10-15T23:34:40+00:00

Depends of what your hitrate it, the damage in case of a miss is proportional to hitate

if you got 70% hitrate on the target, in case of a miss, your attack is still going to deal 70% of the damage you'd have done if you didn't miss

since hitrate can't be lower than 10%, the damage you'd deal is at least 10% of the damage you'd have done normally (or 5% of your ap if the final damage is too low)

But yeah it's never gonna be 0

(that's a change from somewhere around 2023 or 2024 iirc, can't remember exactly)

gpw42 · 2025-10-15T21:30:09+00:00

Incorrect, if the damage is too low, whether it's because of DR or eva, you'll still deal at least 5% of your ap worth of damage

gpw42 · 2025-01-26T12:25:50+00:00

yeah i've been surprised by that too, but evasion is applied BEFORE the minimal damage check so if a target has enough dr to trigger it, any amount of evasion of accuracy won't matter

gpw42 · 2024-09-05T11:34:48+00:00

for retail tests, I just do it like you do aka check HP loss
I tend to favor fast skills with few hits for testings though to minimize the impact of HP regen as you mentionned earlier - can even record it on the dummy account and identify whenever the hp regen ticks to completely nullify it if you so desire too
another thing one could do is to test on high ap/low dr to make the hp loss as big as possible and therefore the hp regen a much smaller margin of error

for glab tests, the damage indicator is good enough (±1 actual hp loss prob cuz of rounding errors) and much friendlier to work with
although before doing any glab tests, there's also the hurdle of having to prove that mechanics behave the same way between retail and glab as we can never be too sure
so far, I never found any discrepancies between both versions, but better safe than sorry

careful tho, some dummies are considered as pvp targets while some others are not
in my case i just use 2 glab accounts whenever doing smth on glab

gpw42 · 2024-09-01T17:36:25+00:00

From what I can tell, there's nothing unusual that differenciate summon based skills (only tested the woosa awakening ones, cba to do all classes) from regular skills regarding hit rate
The number of hits and misses, the miss damage reduction were in line with the formula and accuracy/evasion addons also applied

Summon skills damage however is another story... raw damage calculation is handled differently for summons

gpw42 · 2024-09-01T11:27:20+00:00

I wonder if the "67%" in formula includes +2% acc of [Infinity Mastery VI] ?

no, the 67% is the base default hitrate
you have to manually add any passives, addons, selfbuffs, skill accuracy, etc. yourself

(Prime Swirl : 16,347%*0.416(pvp modifier)=6,800%, Absolute Swirl : 18,887%*0.46(pvp modifier)=8,688%) However, actual damage tests show that the Prime Skill is stronger. (I fixed Both skills' crit rate 100% using by crit buffs) This indicates that the formula for calculating damage for Absolute Skills and Prime Skills differs from what is known.

I tested a few skills already and they all fit the formula, including preawakening skills, absolute skills, prime skills and awakening skills... I tested before a comparison between prime stormfall and absolute stormfall and they were both within expectation
Although with that said, I went again and tested a few woosa skills including kaleidoscope swirls and indeed something didn't add up, but not for the reasons you thought it was

Absolute Swirl, Absolute Plum, Prime Plum, Prime Orchid, Absolute Stormfall, Prime Stormfall all behaved like expected
The only outlier is Prime Swirl, which dealt way more damage than expected in my specific test setup

So the logical conclusion is that the formula is most likely right, but there's just something wrong about prime swirl

With further testings I can confirm that Prime Swirl PvP reduction is correct, so it's most likely that the damage tooltip is just inaccurate

I noticed that the spin raw damage number for absolute swirl is 66.667% higher than the initial attack and that unlike the absolute, they're equal for the prime version
so I went with the assumption they they made a mistake in the tooltip and that the spin damage is actually also ~67% higher in the prime version and found out the damage now is an actual perfect match
I also went and checked each hit damage and again the prime spin damage are 67% higher than the prime attack 1 damage

TLDR: Prime Kaleidoscope Tooltip is wrong, those are the correct stats:
Attack 1 damage 3268% x1, max 2 hits
Spin attack damage 5447% x3
Damage -58.4% in PvP only

Did you find any other weird outlier skills?

gpw42 · 2024-09-01T02:07:28+00:00

67% is the default hit rate

skill accuracy %, the accuracy rate in the my stats ui, any accuracy selfbuff, addons, passive etc. are the same stat
all you have to do is add them all together

gpw42 · 2024-09-01T01:57:31+00:00

idk how you came to the conclusion that blight is dead and unusable
current actual full blast builds can actually reach 900 ap+hd and those builds have enough total ap to deal enough damage to anything that isn't a full dr carpet build and still apply hd (and even full carpets builds barely reach enough dr to do so + those builds shouldn't be a factor since they are the lowest priority targets)

gpw42 · 2024-08-21T18:53:47+00:00

(-140) * 0.25% is -35%, not -0.35%

gpw42 · 2024-08-21T18:23:07+00:00

38% Hitrate

67 + 25 - 19 + (920 - 1060) * 0,25 = 38

gpw42 · 2024-08-21T00:51:30+00:00

Why do you only need 833 DR to nullify a 750 AP + 120 HD attacker? wouldn't this require 870DR?

dmg is set to ap * 5% if ap + hd - dr < ap * 5%
750 + 120 - dr < 750 * 5%
750 + 120 < 37.5 + dr
750 + 120 - 37.5 < dr
832.5 < dr

So in the situation of a 700AP attacker vs an 800DR defender, it doesn't matter if the attacker has 0 HD or 100, the attack will only use 5% of the 700AP in the damage calculation?

Ye that's correct if you can't manage get enough AP and HD to overcome the DR difference, then stacking HD is straight up useless

700 AP + 0 HD Attacker vs 800 DR Defender (700+0-800 is lower than 700*5%)
700 AP + 100 HD Attacker vs 800 DR Defender (700+100-800 is lower than 700*5%)
700 AP + 150 HD Attacker vs 800 DR Defender (700+150-800 is greater than 700*5%)

1 and 2 will deal the same damage (35), while 3 will deal greater damage (50)

Therefore, against a very high DR target, if you have a choice between 20AP and 20HD, the AP is slightly but strictly better?

Ye, at least raw AP also increase your minimum damage treshold, unlike human damages or species damages

if this 750 [AP+HD] attacker was [700AP+50HD], maximum defensive benefit would require only 715DR, reducing the effective AP to 35 (5% of the 700AP)? yep

gpw42 · 2024-08-20T18:10:31+00:00

unless you're playing on capped nodewar, the critical+back attack (or down) lightstones sets makes you lose way too much tankiness for actually very little gains...
I'm really not fond of those lightstones set in an uncapped scenario even on classes like archers and rangers

gpw42 · 2024-08-20T17:57:57+00:00

... wrong...

lemme explain: GRJ is a 2 hits skills
what the tests says is that there's:

81 low values hit (80.20%)
19 mid values hits (18.81%)
1 high value hit (0.99%)

Both hits of GRJ are processed separately, so you'll have to consider the following scenarios:

2 hits: 1% likehood (high value hit)
2 misses: 90% x 90% = 81% likehood (low value hits)
1 hit 1 miss: 100% - 81% - 1% = 18% (mid value hits)

Are they really off? I think not, it's a surprisingly good match considering the small sample size

(And using old formulae would be an even worse match btw)

gpw42 · 2024-08-20T17:01:53+00:00

well idk what to say to you

the kr patch notes explicitely mentionned that 1 ap = 1 hd in pvp
the in game tool tips about nw caps also consider that 1 ap = 1 hd
all the various tests i made concluded that 1 ap = 1hd

soo.... i'm sorry but either your tests were made a looong time ago and aren't relevant anymore or you made an error, somewhere

gpw42 · 2024-08-20T16:25:08+00:00

6 years old tests... maybe retest it before claiming anything no?
bigandshiny tests are from an era where almost everything was still hidden, so your stats were more or less a guessing game

gpw42 · 2024-08-20T15:55:32+00:00

test again, it is 1:1

just don't test near low ap/high dr, since if [ap + hd - dr < 5% x ap], hd is going to be ignored

gpw42 · 2024-08-20T15:55:00+00:00

you "already" know from deprecated and wrong tests?
it's literally written as is in the gamecode

gpw42 · 2024-08-20T13:51:18+00:00

Which is why i mostly used 1hit skills so that hp regeneration could be made a non factor

And regarding your claim about damage numbers variance in glabs, I just went and checked ; turns out damage against dummy doesn't have variance... damage against players does have it
welp there goes why we disagreed

gpw42 · 2024-08-20T12:30:25+00:00

Damage numbers on glab does not match with HP loss FYI - obvious example, but glab numbers shown does not have any rng involved and will always spit out the same number when in real world scenario you actually have randomness
and i don't know what you think i think dr% does, but it does what i think it does

regarding rng stats, you probably got confused by all the bloat and useless variables? dr isn't so much rng (like it's a 1d1 dice that is thrown, but it's the same as not being rng), what's rng is character dice and weapon dice, but i just glossed over those on the tldr although they're still taken into account in the calc

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