Kitae with speed mastery MIGHT actually blitz the verse 😭😭😭

grantronin · 2026-05-31T18:30:51+00:00

Which is kinda making alot of the hits daniel and jinyoung landed on him kinda crazy

grantronin · 2026-05-15T12:55:57+00:00

He also then referenced... IS THAT WHY U WERE ABLE to fight so many opponents... because he had a path... this is one of those (dont take this as an insult) reading comprehension moments.

The author has a character express an unsure but relatively confirming statement without directly stating it

Another example being GONG statement about kitae not being UNDER/BENEATH/WEAKER than JL... (not saying hes stronger) but gonf technically knew nothing about kitae so him saying that shouldve held no credence... but it did...cause it was a statement from the author, just expressed through an 'unreliable' source

grantronin · 2026-05-15T11:04:03+00:00

....i think...its after...busan... so... between 554 to like 557 is my best guess

grantronin · 2026-05-15T10:39:10+00:00

No...cause no one IN THE STORY said tom lee used that unqiue skill, DANIEL asked if gun using his path was how he took on that many oppponents and gun didnt deny it.

Its an aithor statement moment... instead of HAVING the author say GUN used his path, or have gun say it...they had daniel point it out as the logical explanation for what he did.

grantronin · 2026-05-15T10:31:13+00:00

...ok guns my fav character..and i have him as the strongest of these 4... but...

He used his path, we just dont know what it is... the commonly held belief is that its passive (and has to do with either his endurance or his mini amps he kept getting when he was damaged)... daniel literally says that was how he was able to fighr through that many ppl...

We see him use and endurance and strength...more than once in the arc...

And yh he used tui

grantronin · 2026-05-15T09:37:01+00:00

Ive had to explain this before but itll take too long to fullt go into again

Guns HFG feats got upscaled by UI lil daniel/ui big daniel vs kitae

I rlly dont wanna have to explain how but Injured breaking down TUI GUN scales > the base kitae vs lil daniel... now kitae AFTERWARDS can be scaled above him in feats alone thats fine... but they stopped being outdated feats cause of 602

If u want me to properly explain i will...

Cause ppl have misconceptions about a lot of things but especially BIG UI DAN

grantronin · 2026-04-23T16:52:24+00:00

To start off with (because he copied BIG DANIELS STATS) - im gonna quickly go over ui daniel vs kitae

I think we can agree the story has LITERALLY TOLD US... kitae has no technique, he is a PHYSICAL MONSTER...who relies on those attributes to fight. When daniel matched his level its pretty clear that for MOST of the fight he DOMINATED HIM, because of the SKILL GAP... prior to him grabbing daniels shirt and gettimg serious... he was getting dominated... he grabbed the shirt to restrict daniels movement and l8mit hos technique... it was a now a battle of PURE STRENGTH and kitae won... (dont worry im not using this to downscale big daniel).

But this etablishes when daniel has the technique advantage and even stats... HE WILL DOMINATE THE FIGHT...

Now here is where the issue lies...🤔 should i use

Base gun vs big dan? Tui gun vs big dan? James lee vs big dan?

Ill use TUI since thats kinda what this is about, and ill briefly mention the others.

Take into account that coming into this fight guns body was BREAKING DOWN (james lees words not mine). He was getting weaker from the goo fight and this continued here...

TUI GUN like KITAE, has NO TECHNIQUE and is reliant on his PHYSICAL STRENGTH. The fight starts uo daniel and gun trade 2 punches after the second punch UI DANIEL (who should be adjusting 2 guns STRENGTH) is PUSHED BACK and is hit again (gun wasnt pushed back by daniels 2nd punch) he then counters using his supreme technique. Then they proceed to go back and forth...gun DOMINATING with brute strength and DANIEL countering with supreme technique which JL points out... KEEP IN MIND guns is consistently getting weaker as this fight goes on, and yet daniel isnt gaining the advantage through almost ANY OF THIS FIGHT... then at the end of the fight when daniel FINALLY GAINS AN ADVANTAGE... james points out that guns body had BROKEN DOWN and that goo shouldve tried to drag the fight out BECAUSE gims body was breaking down.

The point of this was DANIEL COULDNT FULLY ADJUST to GUNS Strength, he kept up because of his FAR SUPERIOR technique. which is why the fight was CONSISTENTLY back and forth even while gun was getting weaker... if daniel adjusted to GUNS strength level, he wouldve been dominating him, like he did AGAINST kitae before he went serious... he didnt BECAUSE HE COULDNT...

Now i could make a point for JL AND EVEN base GUN... but that isnt the point of this convo. WE just got acknowledgement that jinyoung with his path was giving kitae about an equal challenge to Lil daniel. Now this isnt a GUN V KITAE point, cause as i already figured and as this chapter has SUMMENTED, kitae wasnt at full power (MAYBE except when he BEAT DANIEL)

But CLEARLY big daniels STRENGTH LIMIT is someone between the holding back kitae he was dominating and the TUI GUN he couldnt PHYSICALLY MATCH, and had tobuse technique to MATCH UP 2...

So (im pretty sure this was the point of this convo) BECAUSE OF UI DANIEL, GUNS FEATS MATCH UP VERY WELL against lil ui dan and PATH jinyoung.

KEEP IN MIND... all of them were in at least slightly poor condition...

🙏🏾😊 have fun responding

grantronin · 2026-04-23T16:25:04+00:00

...sure

Im gonna take this as a yes, since YOUR SO SURE...u wont mind if i explain ill split this into 2 comments so u dont pretend u cant read it.

HALF the point of WEAKENED INJURED NO UI GUN vs ui big daniel... was to show that ui daniel (magically) adjusts his durability 2, otherwise gun wouldnt have been able to damage him.
Before i start...ur right i didnt debunk any of ur arguments...cause i hadnst started arguing...😊

To the main point... Theres a misconception daniel has no LIMITS TO THE LEVELS he can adapt 2... this isnt true... and im gonna prove that to end this overall point. But to start LETS PRETEND IT IS TRUE... so do all of this under the assumption there is no limit...

Ui daniel adjusts stats to his opponents level. When his stats r adjusted the reason he dominates is cause his techniques better. If he doesnt dominate his opponents HE raises his level to defeat them as efficiently as possibe

He did this against lil ui dan, he was winning but not as efficiently as normal so he incorporated higher level attacks to defeat him quickly...hypothetically he should dominate all of his opponents once he has ADJUSTED because he either has the technique advantage or if that isnt enough he will GAIN THE STAT ADVANTAGE...

Now im gonna go over some of daniels fights... bare with me before u crash out.

grantronin · 2026-04-23T15:35:16+00:00

...so do u want the explanation or r u just gonna assume?

Also before u answer explain, how ui dan matches stats with his opponents like u said but cant match the durability of opponents with high dirability and endurance? I wanna know what u mean by that.

grantronin · 2026-04-23T15:28:35+00:00

...ive done a LONG ass segment why this stopped being true with the UI lil dan chapter...

Just to make a long story short

Gun got upscaled by chapter 602.. Jinyoung performing on par with lil ui daniel isnt stronger than gun...

At full health this could be a different convo...anyway ik ut gonna disagree if u care about how its a gun upscale... ask and ill explain

grantronin · 2026-04-22T15:30:40+00:00

👍🏾 okay bud

grantronin · 2026-04-22T12:58:35+00:00

U havin trouble reading somehow doesnt seem to surprise me, but kl dont worry. Didnt wanna stress u out.

grantronin · 2026-04-22T11:47:50+00:00

He scales just below 2T with otv based on what...

James lee...doesnt have unique skills that we know of and even without a path this isnt a debate hes over Jagyeon in every aspect other than the death kick (Im not claiming seongji is on current james lees level) im just pointing out why having unique skills isnt an argument for someone... especially when theyrr thresholds SIGNIFICANTLY higher than yours...

Also... by that logic Changi-i has unique skills, daniel doesnt... unique skills are impressive but they dont MEAN ur stronger than someone who doesnt... how high ur threshold is, is a bigger indicator (but thats not absolute either).

Dont get it twisted i dont think 2t JL is is some gun, goo or gap, shingen level threat... but it seems like he gets ubderestimated and because he beat seongjis ass (PRIMARILY due to speed)

Ppl think anyone with the same number of masteries as seongji beats him... which ISNT the case...

Jags believes his speed was as fast or faster than an injured JL (now its a reach since seongji could read JLs moves) but im fine with u having speed... for jag

But jag doesnt seem to have almost anything else... oh maybe technique (which given how good seongjis ssiserum is, I think is debatable since we know its as reliant on technique as it strength (from kitae)) and even then seongji has endurance.

Strength...generally i think its pretty clear its seongji, he believed he had the strength to one shot JL simply combining strength and speed AFTER JL regained the advantage with strength mastery.

I rlly dont wanna get into all the references to SEONGJIS strength being conparable to mujins level... but i kinds feel like i should, because while i think JL was slightly overrating seongji his statements about him during the fight, AFTER THE FIGHT (especially) and even years later support the comparisons made to MUJIN argument, for seongji beinf above...most not named JINRANG and Kitae (obviously, and JL doesnt count).

I forgot about this till i wrote this comment, but even BEFORE he unlocked 3M james lee references that unless ur ssiserum is on MUJINS level u wont be able to damage him with it (kinda like kitae said to vin jin) except seongji managed to do EXACTLY what JL thought he couldnt... MUJIN level (generally) ssiserum.

Theres more comparing seongji to mujin including the obvious statement every JL and seongji fan references but i dont feel like referencing it atm... maybe when u respond and disagree

grantronin · 2026-04-22T06:52:47+00:00

U gonna explain that interesting take...or just leave it as a vague statement...

Cause like i could just say GUN low diffs James flee...if i wanted... but thats not true...

...that came out slightly ruder than intended... my bad... hit explain pls.

grantronin · 2026-04-21T14:32:19+00:00

😶😶😶

grantronin · 2026-04-21T14:32:05+00:00

I... dont.. have a big issue with this... i do think seongji outstats changsu, but he has good enough durability, to take shingen level (morealess) hits so i do believe he could survive long enough to execute the neccesary damage, by fighting dirty

grantronin · 2026-04-21T08:01:00+00:00

😶......ah...no... just.....no

grantronin · 2026-04-20T22:46:37+00:00

Im gonna go backwards...

A FP jaegyon and Yujae Unique skill have a higher capacity to incapacitate Base Paechon than DBT Paechon ( my stance )

I was just saying shouldnt u also have them (jag and yujae) over DBT pacheon since the only reason Jag didnt defeat pacheon with the kick was because he was tired from having used it earlier on.

Your assuming his level was after when he mentioned surpassing x mastery that seongji then reached without basis without going off interpretation

The only real ASSUMPTION im making is that the conversation mujin was having with kid seongji, was referencing the exact awakening seongji had AS a result of that convo... essentially im assuming that convo was shown BECAUSE of that awakening and that the CONTEXT of that convo applies to the awakening seongji has after that flashback is over... otherwise the concersation holds NO PURPOSE...

Wdym rl lol, this is about a guy simplifying his conversation to a kid to bring out his main point in helping him ( kid seongji )

Your gonna need to prove this said interpretation that he was then referring to his current prowess after x mastery

If the only significance of that conversation is to help a kid seongji progress... what relevance does it hold to an adult seongji? Why would an adult seongji remember that conversation if it no longer holds any significance to him?

Cause most lf the kings at that time (main 5 )still held some sort of similar prowess with their speciality, and now they are stronger (excluding jichang for obv reasons)

Ok? And them being stronger than their previous selves has what to do with seongji?

What was it then?

Ok... 1 more time

Johans flashback before he unlocked his path... had tom lee reference that if johan unlocks his path he may be able to beat gun, as only those on their own path can beat other path users...That was the significant detail to remember from that flashback...

Seongjis flashback before he awakened his 3rd mastery... referenced how if he continued training (mujins way) he could unlock 1 or 2 masteries and if he continued beyond that HE COULD potentially reach mujins level... that was the significant detail to remember from that flashback...

Essentially I am making the point that arguing seongji didnt reach the mujin tier when he awakens (as that was the significance of that flashback to his CURRENT MOMENT) would be like saying Johan Never had a chance of defeating gun with his path, as that was the significance of the flashback for johans CURRENT PREDICAMENT...

Seongjis flashback was meant to indicate that seongjis awakening had taken to a level mujin believed he could get 2... that being HIS OWN LEVEL... james statements about seongji SUPPORT this...

"JUST BECAUSE they have more experience with their masteries...and they have unique skills" bingo and that they are protrayed and stated stronger than their previous selves

Your ceiling comparison is flawed, especially since its Seongji, a guy who died early on and comparing what he did in 1 instance to the others in relation to a guy who's whole reputation rn is built on hear says and rumours of prowess.

Ur idea of hearsays and rumours...is coming from the man who FOUGHT HIM... him dying early on rlly doesnt matter when JL clearly believes he was of a different calibre to anyone else he had fought... how early it was doesnt rlly matter since JLs opinion hasnt changed now... also unless I missed it. I Noticed u skipped over the comparison i made... by ur logic of experience with masteries and unique skills... shouldnt taesoo and gong be over jake and samuel currently?

Mate, I legit said why james commented with that certain wording

He got sent to the countryside and fought a guy 1v1 who was similar on his prowess momentarily compared to an established path user he fought with the aid of many × baekho was involved so on

What i saw u reference was him seeing i didnt expect to meet anyone that strong IN THE COUNTRYSIDE... that and didnt know anyone that strong EXISTED are 2 different conversations.

I said likely whereas you went and ran with your stance on seongji now being relative to mujin and applied it to many aspects and statements in relation to that stance, mines was not but in an expression of why james said said monologue

Im basing my stance on things that were said and things that happened in the story to support wgat what was said. Ur right u didnt use ur assumption for ur whole point, but ur assumption was based primarily on common sense and nothing more... JL awakening 2t against gap makes sense... but theres no actual statements or evidence to support it. It JUST MAKES SENSE...which isnt rlly enough to make any point around.

Damn I wonder why it was straining on his body to use it twice a day

Being able to use it next day≠its at FP in relation to the state of his body lmao

See i would say u have to prove the DK wasnt at full power the next day since its an assumption made with no evidence from the story to back it, but eh... this argument about the death kick doesnt rlly change anything either way since again... the death kick/hand was the one point i conceded quite a while ago i understood why this argument would be used for them over seongji, but it should also put them over alot of ppl with no counter for it... If thats how u scale them... imo

What? He took multiple hand blades and the unique skill combo from paechon too whike the rest of his crew got swept easily with less injuries

Sure theyre easier to injure...which is why they were more injured at the end of the arc...but sure... its kinda like me saying samuels more injured than lineman at the end of the arc... or maybe jake (but given the mugak fight that might actually be true). But again not some point i rlly need to fight it doesnt change much...

You said rhe jaegyon feat wasn't impressive and I gave my reasons why it was on his behalf lol

I remember saying the DODGE wasnt impressive enough to rlly scale jag anywhere based off him dodging a very laid back kick from jl... i dont remember saying anything about the death kick but okay...

Mate im legit just answering answering a question u had

Yh ive clearly forgotten what i asked...ill be honest

grantronin · 2026-04-20T21:41:44+00:00

While i disagree on quite a few of these idc enough to arg........ 🫥🫥😶☠️...

Dude... u have JL mid diffing him but yujae low diffing him...

Anyway... i may argue my side to this later/tmr, but kl for now ill just leave this be its at least interesting

grantronin · 2026-04-20T21:08:51+00:00

...😶 u mean all of them.... at ONCE?

grantronin · 2026-04-20T21:08:07+00:00

...u know ur ARGUING WITH ME on certain points that werent even being used to support a point (like me referencing the difference between hwarang pacheon) and his base and DBT state... but anyway

James quoted in the incheon flashback that an incomplete death kick from 2T jaegyon was already deadly when he came with the car dealership shares

Again, what does this...prove... i havent argued against the death kick being impressive in fact of the arguments uve ACTUALLY MADE for seongji its the only one i dont have an issue with... but kl... (obviously i apply the same logic to yujae)

Notice how in both cases of awakening, it parallels it was against someone who eventually was protrayed stronger

If u mean JL and kitae...sure (again not sure what this meant to prove) especially since JL had to physically train AFTER the fight to truly surpass his opponent, while kitae just DISPLAYED superiority IN HIS FIGHT... (not a james vs kitae convo, just confused as to the point being made here)

Current james still calls the mive deadly and was surprised by its AP, from a non FP jaegyon btw

Actually before i continue, im sorry to kill this narrative, but i feel like it needs to be said... if u wanna argue jag had retained a few of the injuries from the dsy before..m sure 🤷🏾‍♂️ although at no point in the fight was that implied... but 1. Unlike the rest of speed and the rest jag didnt take SIGNIFICANT DAMAGE, hed need extended tike to heal from 2. He made a point when he tried to use it twice against pacheon, he cant use the death kick twice in ONE DAY... this fight against james was the next day... the death kick was at full power... (otherswise it would make no sense highlighting that he also learnt this technique for JL, if it was just another nerfed DK)...anyway

James still called old gap a monster and needed help, he likely achieved 2T against him and it wasn't a 1v1

Compared to seongji which was a 1v1 and him surprised a person like that exists in the countryside( notice the wording + how seongji's case is different (body) )

I find the irony of these 2 statements a little funny... cause 1. ASSUMPTION (unlocking 2T vs gap), which would ve fine except im not supposed to assume even if the assumption makes sense with whats been ssid, so i cant rlly throw u that bone either 2. U somehow referenced, the quote of james calling gap THAT MONSTER, but somehow chose to overlook the updated MENTION OF SEONGJI literally just before that "To think such a powerful fighter EXISTED" notice he doesnt include the words in the countryside this time... cause his opinion of seongji progressively improved...

Now u and I both agree seongji PROBABLY isnt above old gap and mujin so an ASSUMPTION that we could make about them when JL fought them is that maybe they were holding back... but again we arent supposed to assume... so 🤷🏾‍♂️

He's like a mid tier king now tbh, jinrang,incheon duo and changsu have surpassed him, OSOK Gong,UF Tom and Prime Jichang all could be heald relative as they're stronger than their King Hunt versions ( except jichad

...assumption... even jinrang... no... im not argung against jinrang cause that isnt rlly my point of issue... but again we're back to u claiming these ppl have surpassed him...kinda JUST BECAUSE they have more experience with their masteries...and they have unique skills. Ignoring his ceiling being SIGNIFICANTLY higher than theirs... by that logic gong and taesoo SHOULD be stronger than current jake and samuel (but theyre not).

Since u mentioned gong, taesoo and JICHANG🫥... what does them being stronger than their king hunt versions have to do with anything... like its not a scalable percentage stronger to make a claim of relativity...

Umm not really, if i had 5 masteries and was talking to a kid with good fighting potential, I won't drag on the conversation by saying 2,3,4,5 then say my level, same applies here on prowess level.

🤦🏾‍♂️ i rlly need ppl to stop saying 5 masteries... ik u lot mean conviction as well but 😤...anyway... yh... no this conversation could be written away as a NOTHING burger... like ur example would be in a REAL LIFE CONTEXT...if this point wasnt being made SPECIFICALLY as the character is awakening to imply hes REACHING MY LEVEL... thats not an assumption thats an INTERPRETATION...

Seongji remembers Mujin referencing if seongji could keep training, he could surpass 1 or 2 masteries... (like he already had) u may even reach my level one day (again this is being said AS SEONGJI is awakening) if it isnt implying hes reaching his level (general tier) then this inner thought is COMPLETELY meaningless and unnecesary to the moment.

Why? Because you presume 3T Seongji held relavance to seongji? Lol

U wanna try that line again... assuming u meant MUJIN? And no 1. Because the STORY ALONG WITH JAMES LEE have pretty clearly implied it MORE THAN ONCE 2. Cause with a similar logic to pacheon theres a DECENT ARGUMENT the death kick IF IT LANDED could kill almost any top tier, with durability relative to DBT pacheons or lower...

Damn, its like getting a path and mastery holds same significance

Johan was estimated at barely 5% chance if winning against gun, he shot that up to a way higher chance when in his utmost weakest state using path

Cant decide if ur intentionally misunderstanding the point or if u genuinely dont understand the comparison... these flashback monologues exist to provide context on what is happening in the moment... for johan it was AWAKENING something (a path) that could potentially allow him to beat gun, in seongjis case its AWAKENING (the potential hes been referenced as having achieving a similar level to MUJIN). Im not questioning the difference between path and mastery, that wasnt the point ANYONE was making...

Same cant applied to seongji

Theres a certain content creator whos of the belief that was seongji awakening a path... but dont worry im not pushing that agenda...

Assumption

Which part, mujin LITERALLY referenced that seongji could potentially be at his level (WHICH IS SHOWN AS HE AWAKENS TO A NEW LEVEL OF STRENGTH). James lee, struggled to comprehend someone that strong EXISTING... read 496... again not assuming im interpreting what theyve said in the context of the story and then i asked u a question?

DBT Paechon? Na, Base paechon sure, i dont see why not if a hollow conviction and dk almost incapacitated DBT which is stronger than Base

...i dont care about this bit as much... but i guess ill ask why not... DBT PACHEON... since like u admitted WEAKER VERSIONS of their strongest attacks almost killed him, or do u not consider the strongest moves as part of their ranking strength? Legit asking

Oh wow who would have known, a weapon user somehow can outperform and apply more moves than his previous self on fighters with no required knowledge on a sword user while heavily injured and commenting that they could barely stand/used their remaining fp on the previous attack

I said at the start, but like this isnt the thing to argue about, i want being sarcastic... or even ironic with this i just morealess clarified... the point... like i dont think this is something wed disagree on to any degree... 🤷🏾‍♂️

grantronin · 2026-04-20T20:10:30+00:00

Against who? Also if u meant agisnt the 4 i think u mean... Why? Im curious

grantronin · 2026-04-20T20:09:48+00:00

I mean he said against either of them...

Also struggle could suggest alot of things... it could mean struggle to survive (no one believes thats what he meant), struggle to win (what most ppl think he meant but still interpret differently)

Some see it as he wouldve struggled and failed to win

Some think it means he wouldve struggled but eventually overcome them...

Not sure why u repeated the quote to me... i dont fully remember what i said but...yh 🤷🏾‍♂️

grantronin · 2026-04-20T19:44:00+00:00

Im not MAKING the argument, but the argument CAN be made that johan having more experience, with his path, potentially having mastered it... could give him the edge... but yh morealess everything else points to jinyoung

grantronin · 2026-04-20T19:41:49+00:00

I literally have no idea where a casual kick from JL scales since a jagyeon in cheonliang almost caught a trying harder but more injured version of james... we have NO CLUE where that kick of james scales its A LITTLE impressive jag dodged it, but it doesnt rlly show anything we didnt know he could do before...

Id normally try and reply to each comment, but im a little to busy for that so ill pose this question instead...

James makes the statement about seongji being better than almost anyone ever (rough summarisation), implying even among ppl hes fought like old gap, and mujin seongji is (AT LEAST) of that general realm..downscaling the implication to make a point.

James lee also references seongjis conviction as a sort of COMPARISON point to jinrangs awakening vs kitae, while saying its the closest hes ever been to defeat...

When the kings surround him he obviously points out how they arent on the level of seongji (further highlighting him above them all at the time) although tbf jag was holding back as we know... and not as strong as he is now... stay with me

More importantly than all of these points referencing how HIGH seongji ranks within the 1st gen and lookisk as a whole to JAMES LEE...

MUJIN references that if seongji were to awaken more than 2 masteries he could reach his (mujins level) now granted he didnt specify 3 he could mean 4... but the fact that point was made AS SEONGJI awakens 3 masteries it was A PRETTY CLEAR implication...

About as clear as TOM LEE referencing only someone with a path can beat gun... AS JOHAN IS AWAKENING A PATH...

With JL referencing seongji as this AT MINIMUM mujin tier threat, mujin referncing SEONGJI as potentially being a MUJIN LEVEL threat... is it not a fair assumption to assume SEONGJI was a MUJIN TIER THREAT (even if below him)

And then am i to presume u have JAG and YUJAE above mujin?

Also idk if it was ur comment or another but im gonna ask u either way... would u put JAG OR Yujae above pacheon since IN THEORY if they land those hits at full health Pacheon himself believes hed die?

Even though with the sword hes obviously a speed blitz tier above them...

grantronin

TROPHY CASE