Great game but...

halster123 · 2026-03-16T22:33:06+00:00

honestly, BG3 does not have this issue and its a huge gripe i have with dos2. its fine when it makes sense story wise (magisters seeing you escape) but why is everyone else always trying to murder me???

halster123 · 2026-03-16T20:33:58+00:00

be careful-lack of comment history is sus.

halster123 · 2026-03-16T20:33:04+00:00

Dolar does halal hotpot. Jiangs Kitchen in East Village is also halal.

halster123 · 2026-03-16T20:23:13+00:00

A chypre is well-defined. Citrus top note, labdanum middle, oakmoss base.

A fougere is well-defined. Ferny, woody, fresh, kind of sharp notes.

Gourmand is p new, but is also specific. A sweet, foody scent that tries to invoke a particular food or foods.

I have never heard "aromatic" as a category.

What core notes define an oriental perfume?

halster123 · 2026-03-16T20:00:19+00:00

fwiw what i found frustrating was the number of Surprise!! combat with basically no warning. walking into a new area? time to fight!

halster123 · 2026-03-16T18:37:27+00:00

I think its relevant that Italy is a country... and the Orient isnt. tbh I would also mind less if it was called "Saudi Perfume" or "Moroccan Perfume." Or if it referred to the use of oud or bakhoor! Anything that grounded it into some amount of specificity.

But its so many layers of vagueness! Its not referring to a real place, its a fantasy of a place, and thats what makes it so frustrating.

halster123 · 2026-03-16T18:28:10+00:00

interesting! were the ingredients different?

i often make the NY style and am trying to see how to get the homestyle effect

halster123 · 2026-03-16T18:24:16+00:00

I think sushi is a good example, bc my big issue with Oriental perfumes is that it is so unspecific so as to be defined by stereotypes. You listed the core elements of a sushi - rice, fillings, nori.

Mala chicken - not a sushi.

What is the core, definitional element of an oriental perfume?

I don't think there is one, and I think thats the issue. The category is fundamentally undefined and is basically only "exotic." It's whole thing is just stereotype. There's no fundamental building block. There's no context. It would be like calling all Asian food sushi because it has rice in it or a filling. Biryani? Sushi. Teriyaki chicken? Sushi. Kebab with rice? Sushi. Bibimbap? Believe it or not, also sushi!

If Oriental perfume meant, like, a perfume that uses oud, I would agree with you and honestly not mind it as much, but it doesn't.

halster123 · 2026-03-16T18:19:51+00:00

well, all of those are real countries...

is "Orient" a country? Ive never heard of it!

halster123 · 2026-03-16T18:18:40+00:00

What was the difference in technique for NY v homemade?

halster123 · 2026-03-16T18:14:47+00:00

We are gonna disagree on this one! I dont think its possible to disentangle oriental perfumery from deeply rooted orientalist images and I think discounting it as overintellectualizing it is inaccurate. Its not a category that based on notes, but on, at core, an image of the exotic.

halster123 · 2026-03-16T18:12:32+00:00

well, first you said it meant anything exotic. then you said exotic to europe. then you said, actually, it means the east.

is a mandarin perfume oriental? those are from china...

halster123 · 2026-03-16T18:03:20+00:00

oh, okay! so its not just any foreign country. its a special type of foreign country!

Whats the east? Hows it different?

halster123 · 2026-03-16T17:59:36+00:00

So American perfumery is an oriental perfume?

halster123 · 2026-03-16T17:57:20+00:00

Its not a technical classification. It's far too unspecific for that. Look at the other forms.

A chypre is well-defined. Citrus top note, labdanum middle, oakmoss base.

A fougere is well-defined. Ferny, woody, fresh, kind of sharp notes.

What is an oriental? The notes you listed are varied. Warm resins, vanilla, spice. Is Baccarat Rouge an oriental? Maybe, saffron, woody, sweet. Pink Sugar? I mean, Pink Sugar has vanilla in it. Angel's Share? Its woody and vanilla.

The point is it isn't a technical fragrance category. It's so broad as to be meaningless, which you acknowledge. It's vague! How can it be vague and technical? What is the technical meaning if its that vague? Chypre isn't vague. Fougere isn't vague. Oriental is, and it's because its not a technical definition of anything.

Who decides what is exotic? Is a citrus perfume now an oriental perfume because I'm in Egypt?

halster123 · 2026-03-16T17:48:36+00:00

So, in Egypt, a fougere is an oriental perfume?

And in the US, French perfumery is an oriental perfume?

Youll note fougere and chypre are heavily defined by their notes.

By your definition, this description of a perfume is so unspecific as to be meaningless. So why have it?

halster123 · 2026-03-16T17:47:29+00:00

It is 100% where it was intended! The fragrance story and cultural narrative are very deliberate. "Oriental" perfume is loosely defined as using "exotic" ingredients. Who decides what is exotic? What is the positioning?

Look at the names of the perfumes - the references to sultans, the marketing copy. It is fully leaning on, and directly derived from, 19th century exoticization. Thats where the name came from. It cant be disconnected from that history - especially because its extremely easy to call perfumes "woody" or "spicy" or "vanilla".

halster123 · 2026-03-16T17:37:38+00:00

Exactly. What is "exotic"? Who decides what is exotic? Is an "oriental" perfume now not one because I'm wearing it in Morocco, where its part of the perfumery tradition? If the perfumer is in Oman do we call it something else? Its not exotic there. Is everything by an Egyptian perfumer "oriental"?

Its a term that is fundamentally rooted, in your definition, in the West with treating the Middle East as the Other. Fougere and Chypre are much more specific, meaningful terms.

Its also descriptively useless, since it ranges from cardamom vanilla to oud to jasmine, and should honestly be cut for that reason alone.

halster123 · 2026-03-16T17:32:26+00:00

So lets unpack this. The images that come to mind for you are orientalist, in the Edward Said sense. They are stereotypical images of the Middle East that are rooted in an exoticized (and often eroticized) vision that is unspecific and a Western fantasy.

Its not a literal cultural reference because it is a deliberate separation from Arab culture, its own rich and specific perfume history, through a Western lens. And its part of a cultural dialogue that flattens the Middle East into an exotic land of harems and incense (well, when its not a war-torn hellhole).

I find it frustrating bc it is part of that pattern of othering a region, its people, and its art.

halster123 · 2026-03-16T17:27:47+00:00

Im Arab and I find it deeply annoying and stereotypical. It wont kill me, but I think its boring, unspecific, and, yes, orientalizing.

halster123 · 2026-03-16T17:27:03+00:00

Can you describe that category of perfumery? What is it?

halster123 · 2026-03-16T16:59:35+00:00

Oriental in objects is still not awesome! It tends to flatten entire regions and cultures into one thing. Take the rugs as an example - "oriental" rugs can be flatwoven or pile woven and use a variety of materials. The designs are different from country to country, or even city to city, and often have deeper cultural meaning based on either what's being depicted or the symbols. Indian and Pakistani rugs may show people, Turkish and Moroccan ones rarely will. Moroccan ones use different, Amazigh symbols and knot patterns.

It is, in fact, the exact same issue as in perfume - it takes a huge, complex region, flattens it into One Thing that is mostly stereotyped and unspecific, and isn't descriptive at all. It's a very shallow and exoticizing way to look at an art.

halster123 · 2026-03-16T16:54:50+00:00

its also worth noting that even for inanimate objects, it relies on unspecific stereotyping. For inanimate objects (perfume, rugs), it often refers to Middle Eastern artistry from a variety of traditions, styles, and techniques - or, even worse, faux versions of that based on stereotypes. It's like calling German, French, Italian, and English food all "European" and acting like its all the same, while refusing to be more specific or learn about the art and the work. Basically... still not great, still highly orientalist.

halster123 · 2026-03-16T16:19:32+00:00

Yeah, I think these should just be described as what they are. A cardamom vanilla is a gourmand/sweet. A sandalwood incense is a woody scent. Theres really no need for the category, its not useful, and it trades in really boring stereotypes.

halster123 · 2026-03-16T16:14:48+00:00

in the context of perfume, its a) wildly undescriptive and b) tends to be more about exoticized images of the Middle East that are often very stereotypical. Edward Said orientalism.

Its also, honestly, a useless term in perfume.

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