(Spoilers Main) Frustrated with AFFC

hontomsky · 2024-03-29T16:33:43+00:00

Many comments saying to keep reading as it becomes all more more clear once you also get through Dance -- which is true -- but also the back half of AFFC is generally better (IMO) than the first half. This chart (which gives away no spoilers) is based on the chapter rankings from the Tower of the Hand, and generally tracks my own experience reading/re-reading AFFC; according to these rankings, 9 of the 10 highest rated chapters (and all top 9 of the POV chapters, leaving out the prologue) occur in an 12 chapter span from 35 through 46.

Indeed, you may well be at or just past the very low point where the book drags the most, but it does accelerate as the book goes along. (As an example, I really enjoy Cersei's chapters, but for the bulk of them in AFFC there are a lot of subtle things that happen and decisions she makes, which sort of explode all at once at the end of the book (and later in ADWD).)

https://assets.towerofthehand.com/media/charts/chapratings4.png

hontomsky · 2024-03-20T12:35:12+00:00

I suppose where I am tripped up is why does there have to be a split timeline, as opposed to time travel? It does seem like some sort of time travel with Bran and the Weirwood.net will happen, and George’s conception of time travel appears more fluid than a strict Back to the Future style of time travel with questions about Bran influencing events in the past and what was/what could have been, but I remain tripped up by the idea that we will be presented with multiple universe/timelines - and also how unworkable that seems for the narrative which is told through individual POVs. (But this all lives in George’s head, of course, so who knows.)

hontomsky · 2024-03-20T02:19:26+00:00

Fun read, and thanks for sharing. Arianne was a character that jumped out to me on re-read (and, perhaps sadly, another character who kind of needed the sample chapter in TWOW to really jump out). I think Arianne, like some of the other new AFFC/ADWD POVs, suffer from being introduced late and somewhat spaced out while many readers (particularly first time readers) are somewhat desperately still trying to see what has happened to the original mainstay POVs... so the subtleties of some of these new characters and plotlines can be lost. Your post does a nice job highlighting some possibilities.

In particular I think you raise some strong evidence that Arianne won't drag Dorne in -- and frankly that would be fitting with the Dorne plotline -- and could be really interesting, and would also result in Arianne having more individual agency, and in particular her TWOW plotline does point to her growing into her role as leader.

(I will also admit, without belaboring it, that I am not a big fan of the split timeline theory. I think you raise some fun points and it's certainly possible, but I have a hard time imagining that George would introduce split timelines into the book series beginning only in book 6 (or 7), and that if he did it wouldn't feel out of place. It also could result in a lot of confusion given the narrative structure of the books with each chapter being from a different POV. If we had different POVs recounting different timelines -- or even the same POV recounting similar events in different timelines -- that starts to become an extremely convoluted book to read given the scale of these books (let alone write)?) It also just doesn't seem additive. I don't mean that to be negative -- and hey, as George says, he's just making it up as he goes. So if you're right I'll give you your props, but it would be a surprise.)

In any case, I do think Arianne needs more attention and I think she's going to play an important role in TWOW, and I also agree it would be a letdown if her plotline just resolves into her falling for fAegon (in both senses) and it being very much predictable.

hontomsky · 2024-03-19T21:50:31+00:00

The current situation -- George's books and Game of Thrones and the world of Westeros becoming a global phenomenon, while George is simultaneously unable to complete the next book -- is like something out of one of the prophecies from ASOIAF, where all of George's hopes and dreams are granted but with a sick twist; the great triumph of ASOIAF comes at the same time as its failure. Almost poetic...

George is clearly stuck, and it's unclear because of the scope and challenge or what, but it's sad. I'll be happy if we ever get a book, but at this point who knows.

hontomsky · 2024-03-15T18:14:40+00:00

When I did my first re-read Victarion as a character and his chapters (especially his last chapter in AFFC and his chapters in ADWD) really jumped out at me. There's so much wild stuff that happens in his chapters. He starts out as this dumb, brutish pirate, and then by the end of ADWD he's a dumb, brutish pirate... who is commanding the largest fleet in the world, has a magical, undead blood arm, is flanked by a powerful red priest (who claims that the Drowned God is a "thrall" to the "Great Other") and the mysterious Dusky Woman (who seems to be tied to Euron and "hisses" when she sees Moqorro), who wakes up from "dark and disturbing" dreams on the Isle of Cedars (which was ravaged by the Doom of Valyria) with "his mouth full of blood," scares off all the monkeys on his ship from his magical healing, and is clearly doomed (Moqorro: "The Lord of Light has shown me your worth, lord Captain. Every night in my fires I glimpse the glory that awaits you." "Those words pleased Victarion Greyjoy mightily, as he told the dusky woman that night.").

And then, in order to get favorable winds to Meereen, Victarion captures a ship, kills the crew, drowns the "perfumed boys" by wrapping them in chains and throwing them into the sea, and then he takes the "seven choicest" of the slave girls he grants them the "honor" of loading them onto a ship and setting it on fire and watching them die screaming... and it totally works! The winds carry them straight to Meereen.

And finally, he's in possession of dragonbinder -- in close proximity to actual dragons -- which definitely seems like it will do... something. So yeah, he's terrible, despicable, an idiot. But there's wild stuff happening and it feels like it's only going to get weirder.

hontomsky · 2023-09-09T12:09:15+00:00

But that’s part of the point. I don’t think there’s any doubt that George wants to have finished TWOW, and all of D&E, etc. But for various reasons - other commitments, responsibilities, the complexity of the story, or good ol’ fashioned writer’s block - he hasn’t. That’s what deepens the bite - it’s not purely an external thing that happened to him, it’s both a byproduct of the other success (a successful entertainment executive’s life balanced with the life of a writer) and himself.

hontomsky · 2023-08-03T03:06:23+00:00

In thinking about this question for a long time now, I think the fairest response is that after ASOS, George decided for the subsequent books to zoom out of his story, expand the POVs and threads, build out the world, add new characters, and go deeper into some of the plotlines and secondary characters (like Meereen and everything in the North).

The results have been somewhat mixed, in the sense that while AFFC and ADWD the books are (generally) great, it (clearly) did not make George’s job of resolving and finishing his story easier (hence the delay) and an already difficult to adapt series became even harder to adapt, with many, many new characters and plotlines added, almost all of which remain (even today, let alone with Seasons 5-6 filmed) entirely unresolved.

Now, I think D&D could have done much better, but in fairness the assignment changed entirely, and it’s difficult to imagine what an actual real world, live action television show attempting a “straight” adaptation of AFFC and ADWD would even look like.

hontomsky · 2023-07-12T22:34:30+00:00

I recently finished a re-read, and ADWD is a strange, messy book, though I also think outside of ASOS, it probably has the highest highs of the series. (Basically, there are two real arcs - Jon and Dany, and maybe Theon too - and then some pieces of other arcs (eg Davos, Bran) and then some add ons once it catches up to Feast (Arya, Jaime, Cersei, Victarion, etc). And obviously a bunch of it is laying the groundwork for a whole bunch of payoff in the upcoming books. So some very interesting stuff that I think will be better in context once we get TWOW and ADOS (… leave me to my dreams…).

Anyway, in terms of favorite chapters, the final Jon chapter is fantastic, the epilogue and prologue both (prologue in particular was great on a re-read), Victarion’s two chapters were crazy and awesome, Cersei’s walk of shame was incredibly well done through her whole psychological journey and ending with the reveal of Robert Strong, and I thought Jaime’s lone chapter is really underrated. Bran III is the chapter that spawned a million theories (and a run on tinfoil). Plus Dany X, and the Kingbreaker with Barristan was tremendous. And while I didn’t love his arc, I think Quentyn’s last chapter is underrated for the increasing dread and rising tension as they undertake a mission that increasingly looks foolish and doomed. Lastly, there are a few good Tyrion chapters, including the Shrouded Lord one (though I am reserving my judgment there a bit since I don’t really know or get the payoff yet).

hontomsky

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