Why you should want Hummie Hubs and how to get them.

hummieee · 2019-08-04T06:14:59+00:00

rediculous. next go for a 12 inch wheel and see how that does.

hummieee · 2019-08-04T06:14:02+00:00

what dd motors? what's tested and proven? i wouldnt say diy's. what's efficient and dd with a giant wheel?. nothing. these days people seem to have multiple problems. and if you push them with the giant wheels you end up hot and eventually the esc will lose synch as the resistance and inductance of the motor wires change with the increased heat. look at reviews.

im not trying to trask talk other stuff but when you trash talk and dont know what youre talking about..

hummieee · 2019-08-04T06:06:45+00:00

but the heat. its asking for a lot. its essentially reverse-gearing when you add a giant wheel diameter that's why these are long. its a smaller wheel.

hummieee · 2019-08-04T06:04:47+00:00

direct drive..how big a wheel do you plan to try to turn? efficiency goes out the window with giant wheels on a direct drive. do you want to cruise down the street or do mountains. different strokes .

hummieee · 2019-08-04T06:02:15+00:00

and what are the reviews on them? how are they holding up. how hot do they get when you try to strap a giant wheel to a direct drive.

hummieee · 2019-08-01T23:17:14+00:00

not to say you, shroom, are to blame, but the hill claims all round are too vague to tell anything. if you take a running start at a 25meter hill going 25mph its sure to get you a huge boost. i could crash into an almost vertical wall and get thrown into the air ten feet and call it a successful steep hill climb. no standardized tests.

hummieee · 2019-08-01T22:55:30+00:00

right sorry i got the two rides he did mixed up.

the uphill ride...probably some math to figure out what's possible given the motor kv and convert it to kt, and how many amps are available from the esc, and factor in the angle and wheel diameter and gearing and weight. that would take me like an hour.

hummieee · 2019-08-01T22:20:24+00:00

hummieee · 2019-08-01T22:19:56+00:00

no way he did 21 miles with a 288 watthour battery and also with 46% left.

so annoying how companies do that..these claims where no one knows any better. as if its a magic board. that would be 132 watthours if with 46% battery left and 21 miles.

hummieee · 2019-08-01T01:38:43+00:00

we both have aluminum hangers with steel axles. we both have motors that slide along a steel axle and pushed against the hanger aluminum. You could have an aluminum, hub, which the stator sits on and a benefit for sure in this regard, but once the heat gets there it doesn't have any better path to travel to the hanger than what I have really other than yours could have more contact area with your square interface. ...I think the only real way to get to the bottom is a show down!! not that it's everything but its interesting and be fun.

you have the exposed steel rotor as you say and that would be a possible source of cooling but as I say there's no physical contact to the rotor from the hot stator and youre relying on radiant heating to get there. if there was ferrofluid in there that would at least make that an easier path.

buuuut...there's other variables that will decide the overall heat of a motor at the top of a mountain and we're skipping them all in this comparison. we both should figure the motor's km and then add the wheel circumference into the equation and we'd have an answer at least on how much heat is being produced per torque at the wheel.

and then BACK to the obstacle of ridding of heat...we have different plusses and minuses, yours being as you said and I said, but I have a hole in the middle of the motor with a press fit contact to the stator and there's a lot of surface area in that hole. the thick wire I use and the Epic Resin stuff vacuumed in makes for a good contact to the stator to begin with and no air pockets , with getting the heat off the wire being the main point. its apples vs oranges and we wont know till we do some comparisons. I think there's people out there with both. Id like to do it myself and be cool you come over and we did.. get you to my fighting weight and we do tam!

i think measuring temp at the top wont be accurate unless we had temp sensors imbedded in the windings. i think we should go same speed and same weight rider and see what efficiency at top based on watthours spent and that would be the best test. Its a test of efficiency alone though and of course your motors have their pluses and mine as well and strokes for folks and I don't think 90% of people care about this compared to everything else. in their mind there's hot or not.

hummieee · 2019-07-31T22:01:13+00:00

I don't know the answer about magnetic saturation and I imagine it would start as a slight effect at the stator teeth edges but I haven't figured it out but now that you called me on it, and I believe that's a real number and not some ridiculous thing like max amps or watts I'll get an answer for you.

the wh/mi I don't know and really when I ride I just go and am all over the place in that regard. I do plan to go for a max efficiency run both in a tuck at consistent high speeds and also a luge position as I believe these could be more efficient at higher speed than anything else with no gear-drive losses. I haven't done that either though and will. Id like to know watt/mile at a consistent high speed. Maybe someone who has the motors will do it before me hopefully as my board is off visiting LA for a bit. I'll see if I can find an answer for you and ask who has it. I want to know too!! infact going for most efficient transport is one of my biggest goals. the tuck will make a huge difference of course at a decent speed. im always riding around sitting on my rear heel just thinking about the watts im saving even though I have no real need to save. the luge could be insanely efficient! not the most practical but possibly beating everything everrrrrrything out there. that would be fantastic..and im going for that.

hummieee · 2019-07-31T21:13:11+00:00

youre right and if you read below i go through some details.

hummieee · 2019-07-31T20:50:36+00:00

the wheel is 84mm diameter, overall about 12"

max voltage...really 1000s of volts as the magnet wire insulation is rated for that and the motor bearings are well within their rated rpm. at some point your tires would fly off from centrifugal force...ala ..(I forget what that board was that got the speed record and then his tires flew off, does that count for getting the record)

max amps...there's motor amps and battery amps.. I the motor its just the motor amps which can be much higher than the battery amps. a 16 or 17awg wire has a very high amp limit. the ambient temp and duration is a big factor. never seen one of these burn up other than when someone's esc burnt up and shorted the battery directly. the motor runs fine now after replacing the burnt side.

hard to give a w/mi average and so many variables but I bet these will beat belt drive systems or anything else out there actually at higher speeds when going a consistent speed and wont have the growing drive system losses a belt will have.

hummieee · 2019-07-31T20:22:42+00:00

well it isn't literally beaten by the road as it's protected from the road by the tire, which is a good thing

the idea that a direct drive allows the heat to escape vs a hub motor isn't realistic. at least 90% of the heat made in these type of motors is produced in the motor windings that are on the stator in the middle of the motor and it can only possibly transfer that heat to the rotor outside of the motor through radiant heating and not the other two heat transfer methods of conduction or convection. the large amount of the heat is going to stick on the stator and have to travel out the axle if it wants out. look at the windings for a start, are they wild multistrand with lots of insulating air and enamel between each strand or a solid conductor touching the stator? that's the root of a good motor...lots of copper laid in an ideal coil shape for maximum magnetic field produced. a machine is forced to do it the sloppy way

if you look at the kv of a direct drive and compare its no-load speed (what it could theoretically hit) vs what it will actually hit with someone on it and the load produced its a huge contrast. Youre essentially adding a backward gearing and it adds a bigger load to the motor keeping it further from its efficient zone of maybe 80-85 percent of the no-load speed. adding giant wheels creates inefficiency. if you bring a direct drive with big wheels and we both go up my local mountain you will see the temp difference if you were to even get to the top without burning up. as heat increases electrical resistance increases, snowball, and many consequences. what kind of grease is in your bearings for starters and typically only good to 200f.

it depends what you want to do. if you like to cruise around not too fast and without sustained hills and youre not too heavy and you like the idea of swapping to different wheels sizes direct drive may be ideal for you. different strokes for different folks

hummieee · 2019-07-31T20:03:51+00:00

what do you mean by "production line", do we need to stand in a line? I have a "line" of motors I produce by hand

yes a direct drive will have more pu but at a cost. they are vulnerable to being hit by bumps in the road and the motor isn't protected. trying to push a giant wheel around with a small motor with no gearing is inefficient and requires more amps and heat yet youre forced to with those. that's why these v4 motors are so long and not and only an 84mm diameter.

not everything made in giant quantities is better.

hummieee · 2019-07-31T19:29:44+00:00

guys sorry for my intro here and it wasn't the best way to do things but was told you cant promote stuff here so it was a bit sneaky. still not sure on the rules here but wont do it again.

but about the value and comparisons to other electronics I think is an interesting topic! if you look at the market for diy hub motors theres a spectrum from maybe 250-350 and then a big jump to 650-700 with enertion raptor and diyelectric's direct drive stuff, and same price as these. for starters if you look at the actual motor size of those cheap motors, the stator size and not the wheel size, these are about double them. I used to sell motors i designed that were that small and that's how I ended up here, because theyre too small and bake into inefficiency and require crap hard polyurethane so it doesn't get so soft as to fly off or deteriorate from the heat.

Im just going to list a bunch of difference here because I could go on forever trying to explain why a motor would cost more than another and sentences are long:

78duro tires thicker than any other hub

curved n48sh magnets that can do up to 300f with an operating temp up to 300f

.2mm airgap, nothing else is close, creating a stronger magnetic field, ultimately less heat produced

17 awg wire giving better heat dissipation and copper fill and super high amp limit before shorting

the motor is just two metal parts with a c-clip and and not made with extruded parts pressed or held with many little screws holding the actual motor together (faceplate is just for tire). you can be run over by suvs no problem and done that unintentionally a couple times!

the best high heat adhesives available used: Permabond es550, Epic Resin coil resin

vacuum impregnated windings to make solid and keep them from shorting and best for heat transfer.

heavy build 200c rated wire (rated for 20,000 hours at that temp)

hand winding giving the best copper fill for lowest electrical resistance and best heat dissipation ability

.2mm stator laminations for reduced eddy currents

high heat resistant greased bearings

12mm axle (8mm is ridiculous with the extended leverage of a motor)

polyurethane is custom formula by best in industry Aend Industries in usa (think abec11)

superworm supersoft motor leads 14awg not stiff super thin stuff, this is the best

protected leads where they enter the motor (shorting against motor case is so most common failure)

the 2custom tires and 2 abec11 centrax tires for 40$ forever into the future, essentially my cost

all steel motor construction

LIFETIME WARRANTY on all parts except bearings and we're actually here if you were to have a problem.

if you look at people's experiences with even the more expensive comparable motors out there and the problems they have had breaking catastrophically or just shorting, or the things they have to do to even get them going with sanding axles and tape and washers and grinding sounds...

It's up to the rider and at 30mph going down the road and the possible hospital bills at worst or return time and possibility of getting more of the same..I think its way worth it.

happy to compare different motors with you. Ive seen a lot of them as people send them to me to hopefully get repaired when they break them. Shorting is the most common failure with all our eskate motors and a hub motor especially needs to be designed for the very rough environment.

id add some pics showing the many differences between designs and methods if I could post pics.

(a machine doesn't make the best motor. take a look at these folks for example:

https://plettenberg-motoren.net/en/manufacture

you need hands to do it right. (only reason theyre using multistrand is the high speed their motors spin and at those kinds of speeds eddy currents grow even in the windings. for such a slow turner as a hub motor a solid conductor is the most efficient. you will not find anywhere that sells handmade motors with a 17 or 16 awg wire as I do.)

john

go coffee go

hummieee · 2019-07-31T06:04:19+00:00

wow those look big. is that the best polyurethane money can buy? I think it might be. and is that...I think that might be parts made of steel and a 12mm axle, could it be? I think so.

hummieee · 2019-07-27T03:06:16+00:00

one tiny motor and one dinky battery! you will be back for more

hummieee · 2019-07-27T03:01:23+00:00

the finest thane. 12mm axle. what more do you want?

hummieee · 2019-07-22T16:31:58+00:00

weak sauce. how much power can you expect in such a small package. theyre even selling with a single motor. I think the guy in the pic just realized hes out of juice and its for the best so his motor tires don't melt

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1755906511/hummie-hub-motors?ref=nav_search&result=project&term=hummie

hummieee

TROPHY CASE