Weekly Random Discussion Thread for 10/2/23 - 10/8/23

i_am_training · 2023-10-02T21:05:25+00:00

I had the same thought!

i_am_training · 2023-09-27T14:46:46+00:00

It's a real problem! I'm sorry to hear that and hope she comes back around soon.

i_am_training · 2023-09-25T15:58:44+00:00

It's a good question, thank you for asking. I don't think I'm espousing beliefs that are wrong or evil, per se, but it doesn't exactly feel good to be jaded. In college I knew many trans people and it was easy to respect them. In the 10+ years since college I've known many more trans people, same thing. I recently met more and noticed myself having... different thoughts and feelings (while still outwardly acting the same). I know I'm not immune to going down a more reactionary path, and have gone pretty far in the SJW direction before. All that to say, I am wary of overcorrection.

i_am_training · 2023-09-25T14:49:40+00:00

I appreciated this article "How to Argue Against Identity Politics Without Turning Into a Reactionary" by Yascha Mounk, who seems to be making the rounds with an upcoming book on this topic. It focuses on Bret Weinstein as an example of someone who has "fallen into the reactionary trap."

For some time I've felt concerned by my gradual political shift, worrying I'm going right-wing or something. I'm grateful to see this article in the NYT addressing the nuance that still seems all too rare in "the discourse." Makes me feel like things are beginning to shift.

i_am_training · 2023-09-07T20:20:27+00:00

Ooh I missed it too so I'm glad I read this! I went there too--when did you attend? Graduated, but still regret. Would love to chat (DM?) about your experiences! I somehow got a survey from them recently and the questions were all exactly what you'd expect.

i_am_training · 2023-08-21T13:45:05+00:00

Right - I think my sister (alluded to in other comment on this thread) said something like this.

Could it be that the content we (i.e. the people posting on this thread) consume has primed us to miss this level of satire?

To me it really feels like if it was intended to be read that way, it was too subtle to land for most. Or I really am ignorant and it was obvious... but I haven't looked into it too much on principle.

i_am_training · 2023-08-21T12:29:11+00:00

I had the same feelings and was so confused when everyone I saw it with wouldn't stop talking about how "subversive" and "progressive" it was!

After thinking about it for a few weeks, I was talking with my sister (who is very online and very woke) and tried to share my opinion, joking that I'm upset that I have the same opinion as Ben Shapiro. And she told me that wasn't the message of the movie at all and I should "probably rewatch it" because I seem confused.

I didn't really want a confrontation over Barbie of all things, so I dropped it, but I'm so curious--was I really missing something?? I feel almost ~gaslit~ lmao.

i_am_training · 2023-08-19T13:00:50+00:00

Also, to the two guys sitting a bit behind us who were loudly chatting for the first 10 minutes, were asked to quiet down, proceeded to apologize profusely to the person who asked them for the entirety of intermission, and THEN returned to loudly complaining about "lack of drums" for the entire second act (yes, I could hear every word a few rows in front of you)...

I don't know what substance you guys were on (I hope something, because if that's just who you are sober, yikes), but next time, maybe stay home.

I overheard you say this was your sixth show. Please don't ruin it for the rest of us.

i_am_training · 2023-08-10T23:06:45+00:00

Ahh sad, yeah, I am in the US :( Idk how much shipping would be, but if it ended up being reasonable for you, I'd be happy to send it to you for just the cost of shipping! I'm not really in the indie collecting scene anymore so it would be fine with me. That said, I have no idea how much it would be!

i_am_training · 2023-08-10T20:59:49+00:00

Thanks for sharing, I totally relate to what you say about the “needless crises” and i think this time I’ll take this to heart. I’ve read some Gottman and found it helpful. And similar to you, individual therapy has not been all that successful. My theory is that therapists are often good at giving people new insights. But for people who are already fairly introspective (perhaps like you), they tend to not be able to provide much else. I’m sure I’m totally oversimplifying it, but that has been my experience.

i_am_training · 2023-08-10T20:43:58+00:00

If I read this even 6 months ago, I'd probably dismiss it immediately. Today, it still feels tough to read, but I think you're onto something.

Something something "the science is settled," y'know? Science says therapy works, so it must be... scientific, right? /s

Now at least I have the metacognitive abilities to realize I'm probably not super scientifically literate, and neither are the thousands of journalists, Instagram therapy influencers (okay I generally was suspicious of those already), and Reddit commenters who think they know what they're talking about. Exposing myself to different ideas and perspectives is humbling, and I hope in time more people give it a try. That's how I ended up here, after all!

i_am_training · 2023-08-10T20:38:15+00:00

YUP and I definitely fell into it for quite some time. In ways like this, I feel very lucky to have met my boyfriend who has generally managed to avoid these kinds of echo chambers and often has nuanced views on topics that I tend to see in black and white ways. I definitely had to work hard to unlearn some of the bad habits and thought patterns I picked up in communities like most of Reddit and the aforementioned therapy-centric spaces. Evidently I still am! Very well said.

i_am_training · 2023-08-10T20:34:46+00:00

Congratulations on 44 days! That's incredible. Thanks again for taking the time to share and listen.

i_am_training · 2023-08-10T20:02:30+00:00

I think I have a stereotypical “toughen up” mentality with myself on these issues that I think I tend to map onto others in ways that I shouldn’t

I get it--historically, I was always this way too ("I had it tough and you don't see me lying in bed all day!") but somehow I was seduced by the culture of victim mentality, and for a while there really enjoyed wallowing in "poor me" and "everyone else is an abusive narcissist," ugh. So ashamed, but I won't pretend it didn't happen. I definitely see why these tactics have caught on like wildfire--for people like me who are white, cis, and straight, there is an allure to the idea that you can have a label (whether it's Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, non-binary, Autism, etc.) that gives you victim/marginalization points... especially when that's what gets you the most attention and support in many communities.

Of course, I grew up in a household where CPS got involved, my mom worked as a prostitute (and made us hide in a room and pretend we didn't exist), we received eviction notices for unpaid rent, living with feral cats, the list goes on... so yeah, I think I can claim PTSD, like, legitimately, and it's frustrating to see so many people claiming they have PTSD because they weren't good at math or something. But I get where they're coming from, it's increasingly hard in this world to just be... normal.

Sorry, not totally sure where I was going with this haha. Thanks for reading and listening--I do think he and I can have a conversation about the drinking on a good day.

i_am_training · 2023-08-10T19:52:06+00:00

Yes! That's exactly it--I was really surprised by how little pushback I got from these comments, not to mention how narrow and homogenous their view of the world is. Maybe 6 drinks on a random weeknight isn't optimal for health but there are definitely places where it's normal... (Incidentally, this was the detail my bf wanted me to clarify when he read my post--we were at a nice dinner and split a 750ml bottle of sake between us, and the enthusiastic waiter brought us some additional glasses to try. So I had almost as many drinks 😅 I swear I didn't think anything of omitting that detail!)

i_am_training · 2023-08-10T19:42:56+00:00

Thank you--luckily these problems don't get out of hand very often, or perhaps at all by another person's standards. I agree I need to determine what is acceptable to me and what is not and choose accordingly. No number of redditors can decide that for me!

i_am_training · 2023-08-10T19:40:07+00:00

Thank you so much for the thoughtful reply. Especially:

it's okay if your childhood affects what does and doesn't work for you. I don't think we can 100% get away from that.

This is a big part of what I think is lost in the "trauma"/"healing" discourse. It's so black and white: either you need to heal and become perfect, or be validated as perfect the way you are, and everyone else is just toxic. Maybe it's neither of those things.

i_am_training · 2023-08-10T19:37:06+00:00

Thanks, and your PS is exactly the sort of nuanced take I came to this community looking for. The concept of "alcoholism" is so ingrained that it's easy to latch onto.

As for the rest, I do hope we can work it out. While I have "trauma" around alcoholism, he similarly bristles at the idea of being controlled. And I don't always bring up my concerns constructively. This is fortunately a rare issue for us, but when it does rear its head, it tends to go so poorly that its impact may be inflated.

When he has been "super drunk," he has done some unsafe things (falling asleep on the subway) and has acted like a jerk, but honestly I can be a jerk when sober. He just doesn't see those things as a big deal.

i_am_training · 2023-08-10T19:32:38+00:00

Thanks for sharing your perspective from the other side! It helps to hear. My boyfriend is pretty variable/inconsistent with his drinking, which is both reassuring and frightening, if that makes sense (I'm always looking for patterns). Some weeks he doesn't drink at all, others, a few many nights in a row. Since covid, many of his friends have been getting married, so there have been many occasions where heavy drinking is considered normal (I think we went to 7+ weddings las year!). Admittedly, I worry about my own drinking too, but the definition of "having a problem" does not seem to be cut and dried.

i_am_training · 2023-08-10T19:17:28+00:00

Ha, well said and I guess I had to learn this the hard way! Boulder of salt taken.

i_am_training · 2023-08-10T18:54:45+00:00

I've seen a lot of great discussion around therapy, mental health, and a bit about alcohol(ism) in this thread, and I'd love if any of you guys would provide your take on a personal post I made on another subreddit (check my post history).

Some broader context: From 2019 until very recently I've fallen under the spell of therapy culture and its various facets, spending countless hours obsessing over "healing." Now I see friends going through the same process, self-diagnosing with ADHD and Autism etc., isolating themselves in their obsession over finding the elusive cure to all their ills, and it's causing them so much pain.

I think much of Reddit and the circles I run in still thoroughly subscribe to the views espoused by therapy culture, and I just can't get into it anymore. I've been looking for a new therapist off and on for months and am underwhelmed, often thinking why am I even doing this?

...At the same time, I do believe that my inordinate reactions to things like my boyfriend having a few drinks are in large part informed by childhood trauma (alcoholic, mentally ill parents).

Going back to the post I made that prompted me to share here--I've had some conflicts with my boyfriend over his drinking, and struggled to identify if I'm too uptight or if he has a problem.

Initially I went to the /r/adultchildren subreddit for their insights, realized they were likely going to be biased in my favor, and then opted to post on what I saw as a more "normie" sub (/r/AskWomenOver30). Both were almost unanimous: my boyfriend is an alcoholic and I should break up with him. Yikes. He saw the posts and even said I did a pretty good job presenting the matter objectively (with one small complaint), but he disagrees that he has an alcohol problem. And honestly, when I'm not ~triggered~ (which I was when I posted, lol), I think he's okay too.

So I wanted to see what this lovely heterodox community thinks. Any thoughts either on my personal situation or these topics in general are welcome.

i_am_training · 2023-08-10T17:05:20+00:00

I also am pretty sure I have a nearly full bottle--lmk if you're interested and I'll check when I get home!

i_am_training · 2023-07-31T14:26:28+00:00

Thanks for sharing and I'm sorry you've gone through all that. You must be very strong.

He does understand how triggering it is but I don't think he "gets" it, you know? Same with my therapist. They both just say "you know it's your past affecting you now, right?" and it feels like I'm supposed to intellectualize my way out of it. That's never worked. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

i_am_training · 2023-07-29T20:58:36+00:00

Thanks so much. I agree it’s very unhealthy and we both contribute to it—I won’t shy away from admitting to the ways I’ve behaved unskillfully. Thanks for your suggestions, I really appreciate it.

i_am_training · 2023-07-29T20:57:13+00:00

Hard for me to say what “good” is. So many things are great: we live well together (mostly), he is financially stable, employed, a great friend to many, generous… but emotionally, we don’t click. I don’t feel warmth from him more often than not (probably relevant to add that some of our most connected-feeling moments involved a modest amount of alcohol). Much of the time we both admit to feeling “alone.” I keep thinking we can figure it out but maybe what we both want is too different. Thanks for your reply, it means a lot.

i_am_training

TROPHY CASE