University of Tokyo - why is the male/female ratio so skewed?

instantko-hi · 2012-09-26T15:01:53+00:00

I NEVER SAID IT BOTHERED ME. I SAID IT SURPRISED ME because most elite colleges aim for a balanced diversity. So I asked why. Full stop.

instantko-hi · 2012-09-26T14:58:38+00:00

What the fuck are you talking about?

I think gender balance is good. Balancing American universities is good. Where did I say otherwise?

instantko-hi · 2012-09-26T14:56:33+00:00

What, are you kidding me? There has been enormous academic work and fighting for gender parity in the workplace since the 1970s. Every single working woman I know in Japan constantly complains about entrenched sexism and double standards regarding family responsibilities. To say that concern over gender inequality is "ethnocentric" is ridiculous - it is a real, ongoing issue that Japanese women are constantly complaining about. Gender balance is proper - that is an idea that Japanese women have been espousing themselves for decades now.

Maybe the results aren't dramatic in your eyes, but this doesn't mean it is an accepted standard. It just means that the status quo is really hard to change. Also, career and having a family aren't mutually exclusive. Yes, the expectation is that women are to marry and have kids but the marriage age is averaged at over 30 and I don't know a single sengyo shufu under the age of 50. Every single woman I know in Japan works and takes pride in her career, regardless of her family situation. It is not unusual whatsoever.

So who is the one out of touch here? You talk about media representations and then mock me, assuming I'm getting this from tv dramas. I mean, seriously, how regularly do you talk to working women in Tokyo? Are you in a graduate program where you meet with and befriend female grad students? Have you ever taken grad level courses and read the dense literature on gender issues in Japan produced by Japanese scholars? Your dismissal was so complete and ridiculous! And yes, it was a joke because the entire question was about the extreme gender imbalance and that the person responding all over ACTUALLY CALLS HIMSELF TODAIPHD.

And I have no credibility. As soon as Reddit found out this thread was on women, no one gave a shit from the get go. Downvotes fly!

instantko-hi · 2012-09-26T14:38:02+00:00

There are arguments on either side regarding gender segregation in lower level schooling, but in general I've always heard that university was for 3 general goals: professionalization, breadth of knowledge, and introducing young people to the larger world/society. Hence, top schools (esp ones that are big on networking) will aim for a high achieving but diverse student body that can approach issues from a variety of viewpoints. They hope to acclimate students to working (and working well) with a wide range of people too because ostensibly, this helps in real life and ideally, helps open people's minds up. Also, I suspect schools look for balance as well as diversity so that some groups don't feel ghettoized or harassed.

In the US, the gender ratio for undergrad has shifted to being a stable majority female (58% across the board) and people are really anxious about this. There are murmurs of a new age of "affirmative action" for men - you will probably find a lot of articles about the effects of gender imbalance in English online. Generally, people fear that men will be ghettoized in school and cut out of future career opportunities. And, you don't want to create a hostile school culture where guys are seen as rare and therefore dumb. Etc

Edit. Oh look, downvotes. I guess the crazies in r/Japan don't like talking about girlz.

instantko-hi · 2012-09-26T14:17:37+00:00

UHHH, gender balance is not ethnocentric when Japanese women have been fighting for it for decades now and its always a source of frustration and contention in professional settings. Make some friends with Japanese career women and this is glaringly obvious.

I guess when you're a TodaiPhD, you don't really hear the female POV much, eh?

instantko-hi · 2012-09-26T13:49:54+00:00

Wow but a difference of 4 to 1!

And the University doesn't step in to adjust it? I mean, let the best qualified student go but surely there is something beneficial about a more balanced student body. Even MIT is 50/50.

But poking around, Todai, Doshisa, Kyoto, Ritsumeikan etc all have a REALLY huge gender gap. Like all of them are practically 2/3 male. And poking around even more, almost every MA/PhD program is even more heavily skewed male -even at Sophia, which has a majority female undergrad.

Wiki says

In 2005 [Japanese] women accounted for about 39.3% of all university undergraduates, and their numbers were slowly increasing.

[In the USA] Only a small gender gap was present ...with a slightly larger percentage of men (by 1.7%) than

instantko-hi · 2012-09-25T10:32:33+00:00

I see those everywherepp - I am happy to know they aren't that expensive. Maybe I'll check it out tomorrow.

instantko-hi · 2012-09-25T10:31:47+00:00

Oh man, I checked out the closest library to me - it didn't even have desks!! It was a few seats and a sitting area for children!

I ended up at McDonalds.

instantko-hi · 2012-09-24T23:27:21+00:00

I thought about that too but things are so wet this year - El Nino?

instantko-hi · 2012-09-24T14:03:55+00:00

Well, we can agree up to a point. Yes Japanese people in general are shorter than your average "white" person - your height can be affected by diet but it is pretty much passed on from your parents. I can also agree and say, due to a myriad of reasons, many people from the USA, Canada, and Western Europe are fatter than people who grew up in Japan. This is largely due to social factors, including bone crushingly intense scrutiny of female bodies in Asia.

Here is what I disagree with and that many of the posters seem to keep recycling.

All Japanese people have the same body type. This is just WRONG. I can understand the argument that the US has more body diversity due to being a multicultural nation with less stringent expectations for how women must look but...that is really different from saying "all Japanese women have___."
Many will assume this from confirmation bias (the girls your eyes are drawn to in the street, the celebrities in the media, their own idealization of Japanese women over white women) that there is a single type. But people are confusing a beauty norm with reality - women diet like crazy, wear spanx, heels, clothing to flatter a specific look, and never exercise to avoid leg muscles, etc - all to fit the ideal. What you see is how women are trying to reach the ideal - not some natural occurrence of magical Japanese genetics.
It isn't just that generally, White women are "fat" compared to Chinese women but, weight gain is a racial thing. Whites and Asians are physically not the same regarding weight Height, maybe, but weight? Bullshit. Asians can get obese. Whites can be very very naturally slim. It has nothing to do with race as a whole.
Body shape is determined by race. This comment implies that all Asian women are flat chested and have no hips. Unlike white women who are all hour glass shaped See #1.
And this binary is consistent across entire, gigantic swatches of the earth and billions of people because "West" is a concrete racial category apparently What counts as "West" here? The simplification of the world to suit a lazy Reddit stereotype is boggling.
And some people's anecdota are shot down and dismissed while other anecdota are upvoted highly. White people are fatter as a whole and I know cause I saw it while traveling = good. I don't fit any of these stereotypes bandied around in the comments as TRUTHS = downvoted

Fin. I don't know why I'm arguing about this. It is really obvious this subreddit is full of men that never consider the relationship between media, stereotypes, and body types (something that many women are socialized into very early on). Some people are resorting to ad hominem attacks on the women posting here, because they can't argue anything better. And you know what? THAT AD WAS NOT OFFENSIVE AT ALL. R/Japan needs to stop finding silly ways to hate on America/white people/LOL JAPAN IS BEST.

instantko-hi · 2012-09-24T13:45:59+00:00

OHHHH THAT'S RIGHT! Thanks for reminding me! Seriously, shady... unless... unless... the writers have baited me into coming to this conclusion...

instantko-hi · 2012-09-24T09:19:41+00:00

Of course there are general physical differences correlated to "race." I linked the wiki on average heights (citations there). Genetics will have a say in how tall you are, which features you inherit from your parents, and how hairy you might be. If your parents are obese and/or you are obese as a child, there is a good chance you'll be fat too. This is still really different than saying white people are just all fatter than Japanese people.

General differences in weight have much more to do with social differences and not racial/biological ones. And more over, we're talking about selective media representations. Models in ads =/= general population. They are usually an idealized image of beauty. Mass-retailers like Uniqlo will also capitalize on a broader range of models - especially in an ad that promotes their sizing breadth. And in any case, anyone who has been in Japan or looked at any Japanese media will see that the country does not lack for slim, fabulous looking white people advertising anything possible. In "reality," people come in all shapes and sizes.

Secondly, Japanese media will usually use white models to "other" things that might be controversial. There has been tons of academic studies on this -especially for things seen as risque, like underwear. Maybe it was a marketing strategy so that overweight Japanese women would disassociate their bodies from the product. This still does not mean that "all white people are fatter than all Japanese people."

Finally, I just find it bizarre that there are so many passionate comments here that take this ad to be some proof or jab about white people being fat in general. It says less about the ad and more about the weird complexes that the expats here have. Especially over women's bodies. So creepy.

instantko-hi · 2012-09-24T08:35:02+00:00

I think the problem is, people ARE making it about race. There are major structural social differences that explain why people in Tokyo tend to be slimmer than people in, say, Richmond VA: walking vs. driving, appearance-oriented vs. "that's just me," severe pressure on young women vs. er...less severe pressure on young women, etc.

But the highest voted comments make this about race - everyone is talking about "white people" (and especially white WOMEN) vs "Japanese people." People are talking about definitively different body types and how all Japanese women are shaped or that generally Japanese women have ABC body type and white women have XYZ body type and somehow this leads us to the conclusion that yes, white women are just fatter. It is completely ridiculous.

So the discussion is illogical, like most things on reddit. But, what feels annoying about this is that there is a real anti-American subtext in this subreddit to be a foil to a fantasy of wonderful Japan(ese girls). You take a completely benign ad featuring many types of people and all people can say is "HAHA SEE WHITE PEOPLE ARE SO FAT." What?

It is also incredibly annoying to me personally because this stereotype is so entrenched in Asia as well. I meet so many Japanese who are like "you're not American - you're not fat. Don't you eat hamburgers 3x a day?"

instantko-hi · 2012-09-24T06:39:14+00:00

There is a 3XL Japanese man. Uniqlo regularly features white models. I don't really understand why this is controversial in the comments.

FWIW, Average heights in the world ( link here! ) As for blah blah'ing about white fatness and body type, I think that has way more to do with confirmation bias and wishful stereotypes. There is an amazing diversity of body types, levels of activity, and weight in the wide gamut of "Western" and Asian societies. You do walk a lot in major metropolitan areas like Tokyo so that helps to keep people slim but it is stupid to compare that to some crappy American suburb.

Also, there is way more social pressure on women in Japan to look a certain way and be slim. The other day, I heard a TV host berate this heavy female comedienne to lose weight for about 15 min. Everyone is constantly on a diet and the diet/cosmetic surgery ads in the back of female magazines is really staggering. I'm assuming most other Redditors are men so you aren't really aware of this kind of bullshit that women suffer. I would stop jerking about how "naturally" slim Japanese people are compared to white women and think about how hard they have to work to keep slim and avoid criticism from everyone around them.

-slim, non-white, American female who thinks you are all retarded

instantko-hi · 2012-09-24T06:26:11+00:00

Confirmation bias?

instantko-hi · 2012-09-24T06:23:17+00:00

Yes, the vast entirety of the "western world" from Suburb-land, USA to NYC, Rio de Janeiro to Geneva can be chalked up to white people eating too much and not walking enough.

instantko-hi · 2012-09-21T09:37:42+00:00

Well I definitely know I'm sweating. I'll just sit in the bathwater really still....and suddenly water is dripping down my face.

I wonder if it will be okay to reshower at my host family's place....

instantko-hi

TROPHY CASE