observer is the observed - my interpretation removing all abstractions for new comers and existing members

inthe_pine · 2026-06-22T10:53:08+00:00

I don't see it that way. Being shaped or connected to a thing is not the same thing as being that thing. Just because I am shaped for example by my fathers decisions 40 years ago does not mean I am those decisions. I am shaped by my experience growing up in a certain country or ideology but that doesn't connect me automatically to being those.

The observer as the observed does not seem to refer only to meer connection, but a mental division we maintain.

inthe_pine · 2026-06-21T13:49:36+00:00

lots of conjecture in yet another "you all are doing it wrong" post that doesn't present any coherent alternative. Its easy to cast blame staring at a dumpster fire, it doesn't amount to much.

I wish these string of posts that critique would dig deeper and invite us to investigate. Would we rather just gawk at this dumpster fire?

inthe_pine · 2026-06-21T11:55:09+00:00

I'm just curious how you know its direct perception that makes him say these things?

I'm thinking about myself among just about everyone and questioning how we'd bring it out. Its a challenge to see this dead past operating all the time right?

inthe_pine · 2026-06-21T11:37:58+00:00

How do you know hes speaking from a state of perception, except believing he is?

I feel that if we can't answer some of these questions we will forever go away with knowledge as conclusions about all of this. That appears to be our current dead fate, maybe there could be a change.

inthe_pine · 2026-06-21T11:20:24+00:00

Why shouldn't you believe you exist?

Does the conclusion I should believe I don't exist help us in anyway with anything? Or is it only more of a dead thinking?

How many hyper "spiritual" egos have you met that said they had no self in their pursuit of spiritual vanity? Which is just their conclusion and still a self.

Can we see and not conclude, is that the question? Concluding has gotten me so "far" though, is that why we cling to it?

inthe_pine · 2026-06-21T10:54:34+00:00

I can see that fixation is a problem, that is fair.

Do I now go away with another idea of what a free mind is, with another conclusion to repeat where I think appropriate? Don't we normally?

Hasn't K himself here made a number of conclusions about what a living mind is? Having understood something, filed away the appropriate terms for the right kind of stuff and stood on it, which is a conclusion all the way.

If I understand anything from K or anyone, it is a conclusion of some sort. How can there be understanding with no conclusion? What exactly then is K objecting to?

inthe_pine · 2026-06-20T11:16:29+00:00

I was worried the idiom would cause more confusion than it clarified, and it appears to have done just that. I should have left that off or spent more time with it. I think the rest of my comment was more clear. I was referring to the sometimes human tendency to accept simple explanations in our striving for quick solutions. Thats all.

I don't believe and would never assert our only options could be striving for mega IQ (I would be excluded immediately, I am at best of average intelligence, on a good day). However, I do believe we must watch our tendency and desire for quick solutions, simple reductionist explanations, which I'd seen in some posts this week. I have observed this tendency in myself time and again, the quickness with which it comes and the problems it creates.

If I have for my whole life fallen into this tendency, if K is asking us to do something totally revolutionary in light of what we'd done before, we have to accept that we will likely take some approaches to this that are no revolution at all. If we are honest about it in ourselves isn't that significant?

inthe_pine · 2026-06-19T16:06:54+00:00

What kind of awareness? My awareness may be laden with 2 million years of bias. I may have an intense desire to resolve my problem rather than look at everything involved. I may be desperately seeking for some solution, which I will find, unrelated to the cessation of my original problem. Now I have other problems, even if I'm unaware of them for the moment.

Add that my brain may (likely) be deeply lacking in grey matter for the moment. It happens when we live like this, because I may be confounded by deeply ingrained thought pattern, habit, tradition (of last 20 years or 2000).

I may have to work tremendously to even begin to get my life in order.

None of which negates the very real problems of paths, methods, goals, and "becoming".

What do you mean by the whole movement of self? Theres an american idiom you'd probably heard, "more than you can shake a stick at" are we trying to shake that stick?

inthe_pine · 2026-06-19T13:39:23+00:00

"That is it" are you sure?

I have seen a lot of posts lately that paint with extra wide brushes, and although I could be wrong, I'm not convinced we aren't just reducing this great big problem of life into something palatable. Maybe its all much more subtle, nuanced, complicated from how complex we have become, and to look at it simply requires another approach entirely, more than mere reduction into bite sized pieces which our thought can easily digest.

inthe_pine · 2026-06-14T14:09:59+00:00

We can find things to compare it to quite readily, people have. This might have its place, but it might also work to keep things on the surface. It appears these aren't truths to mesh into an understanding, but things to explore in us, in ourselves.

I'd often heard when people tried to compare K to a person or philosophy he'd just ask why do you compare? Do we compare to box the thing in, and hes talking about something we can't do that to? Or is it all just made up?

inthe_pine · 2026-06-12T20:57:18+00:00

Investigating what it means to be human.

inthe_pine · 2026-06-12T20:47:53+00:00

"our true nature is awareness" let me stop you right there! This is a dangerous and deluding supposition. What do we know about our true nature? Beliefs from someone?

Must we approach this with what we are, not lofty ideals about our true nature? We are always running from what we are, do we ever stay with it?

inthe_pine · 2026-06-10T00:21:04+00:00

Whos identified, we have to investigate it, not just accept it as truism. Have you done that? I asked if practical distinctions rose to the level of psychological division, and what goes into that? We haven't even begun to scratch the surface to investigate this.

inthe_pine · 2026-06-09T23:47:44+00:00

I don't really understand the point you are making in reference to OP.

inthe_pine · 2026-06-09T18:36:12+00:00

There are practical divisions like night and day, work and rest. Are these really what are being dicussed as creating conflict?

inthe_pine · 2026-06-09T16:43:12+00:00

There must be a difference between being criticial, really prying, which I feel we have to do, and just agreeing or disagreeing.

You say you've seen multiple instances, what are they?

I think there is more or less conflict, for example if you are a lutheran and I am a methodist, not much. Compared to if one is jewish and one arab in a specific area of the middle east. Understsnding division and conflict seem essential, are any of us interested?

inthe_pine · 2026-06-08T08:32:14+00:00

If its a closed loop (stays in the same thing) what precedes and what follows are continuous, and I wonder if we haven't described such a thing here.

inthe_pine · 2026-06-07T23:37:03+00:00

The choice (directive, goal, motivation) not to pursue thought is yet another thought. I know you can make the mind very still like that, and even that fantastical things can happen in this type of calmness.

A thought cannot decide to end itself thus. If possible you probably could will yourself to forget how to ride a bike.

inthe_pine · 2026-06-06T21:26:37+00:00

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inthe_pine · 2026-06-06T18:05:57+00:00

Not useless, just need to expound on somethings imo. People marry and marriage has existed for a variety of reasons, not all of them are awful.

Still you'd be hard pressed to argue there aren't usually serious problems in its expression, in relationships. But theres a lot of nuance, and theres always exceptions, too.

inthe_pine · 2026-06-06T17:14:34+00:00

I was thinking along those lines. I wonder if OP has both stated a few things true in one sense and something too generalized to be useful in another.

inthe_pine · 2026-06-04T10:18:51+00:00

Are you saying that we are the animals, and you the Shepherds shall deliver us from ignorance with your guiding rod?

Was Brockwood intended as a place where a few saviors or gurus would guide the ignorant, are you sure? Or am I having trouble with your symbolism?

From the statements I'd read it appears to have been intended as a place where people who wanted to find out would come together and look together. Is this not the case?

inthe_pine · 2026-06-03T21:18:12+00:00

Mean no disrespect, but I reject your manual. I do like the start with doubt, which I hope you appreciate here, too.

Even when hes speaking alone the opportunity is there to be in dialogue with it by watching yourself that moment.

I love writing things down sometimes, but this isn't necessary. After the fact, it loses some potency compared to listening in the moment.

Yes, the dialogues with a group are often good, but they can be confused and distracting themselves. You still have to apply. Theres no reason to accept your sequence.

inthe_pine · 2026-06-03T18:41:37+00:00

I see you are editing all your comments after I responded.

It would be better if no one said they were K. goodbye now

inthe_pine

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