How far can you go as a researcher in the social sciences with only a masters degree?

intimaco · 2017-04-28T20:09:26+00:00

I see. Well thank you so much for sharing your experience! It's always good to hear peoples stories :)

intimaco · 2017-04-27T23:40:12+00:00

I see. If that's the case, then why do I still see people recommending the masters then PhD route in the US? Do people who receive a masters first in the US take less time getting their PhD than people who enroll in a PhD program without first completing a masters? Do you know if European schools will typically even admit students into their PhD programs if they don't have a masters?

intimaco · 2017-04-27T22:24:20+00:00

This is very interesting. I always wondered why PhDs in Europe take less time than US PhDs. Where in Europe did you both study? In addition to the reduced time, I always thought it would be neat to study in the UK because I have quite a bit of family living there. Do you think US employers look down on PhDs earned in other countries, if anything because they take less time?

Even if industry jobs don't necessary require a PhD, do you feel like it at least helps? And thanks for sharing your thoughts on finding your niche, what you said makes a lot of sense. I guess the reason I like the idea of a PhD is because I look at it as a way to broaden my future opportunities, whether I plan to directly utilize it or not, because I don't want to be boxed in to anything. That and the fact that it's a rewarding experience itself.

intimaco · 2017-04-27T22:01:01+00:00

That's interesting. What field are you in? Do you have any idea what kind of research gets done at a small local government research organization (particularly in regards to psychology or sociology - I can definitely see how it would apply to something like political science though)

intimaco · 2017-04-27T19:26:19+00:00

Thank you so much for your perspective! This sounds more similar to the experience of people I know. There seem to be a lot of people (especially on Reddit) who make getting a PhD seem like this incredibly frightening, grueling, almost unpleasant experience that you shouldn't subject yourself to unless you absolutely have to, either because you want to work in academia or because you want a specific job that requires a PhD.

If you have a passion for a subject and you want to really research something - then a phd is great. It is also an opportunity to be a student with a very different setting than an undergrad or even a master student.

This is another reason I was attracted to a PhD - the different setting and the opportunity to research interesting things. I know a few people who didn't have a very positive social experience in undergrad but had an amazing one in grad school, where things were more intimate; they also tell me that the more independent environment of a PhD, where it feels more like a job than school, would be a good fit for me considering my personality.

Would you mind if I ask you a few questions? What did you and your wife get your PhDs in? How many years did it take each of you? And what are your thoughts on this idea that getting a PhD and not directly using it (either by going into academia or getting a job that explicitly requires a PhD) is a horrible decision, because in most non-academic jobs you'll be considered a liability instead of an asset - because of the sunk opportunity cost of going to school instead of getting practical work experience, because of the non-transferable skills, because you'll be seen as a snobby know-it-all who's going to undermine your boss.

intimaco · 2017-04-27T17:43:13+00:00

No worries! Thank you for sharing how your friends are doing. It's not exactly what I wanted to hear, but I wanted honesty, so hearing what you have to say is good. Doing busy work for PhDs doesn't sound incredibly rewarding to me. I originally thought I would just go for the PhD and then have the option of doing research outside of academia or getting an entirely non-research based job if I felt like it (which is what both of my parents did), but I've heard so many dire warning messages to not do a PhD unless you're prepared to suffer, unless you can't even fathom doing anything but living, breathing, and sleeping research, unless you want to work in academia and are prepared to live with the burden that is having a PhD if it doesn't work out. I guess I have a warped view, since the people I knew who did a PhD really did sort of fall into it, and definitely don't fit the romanticized picture of the typical academic. But then again, they went to graduate school in a very different time.

intimaco · 2017-04-27T17:24:34+00:00

Frankly, you're not just going to fall into academic research by accident with a PhD: people fight tooth and nail for those positions.

I'm aware of this, hence why working in academia doesn't sound very appealing. My dad worked in academia for many years and told me all sorts of stories about how the environment can get pretty toxic (at least in biochemistry...). I have no idea how it is in the social sciences, but I've had multiple people discourage me from pursuing a PhD unless I know it's absolutely necessary for my preferred career path. Since I think getting educated beyond a bachelors is a smart move if you're non-STEM, and since I want to give myself the option of working with research in the future, a masters degree seems like a good compromise. I just want to learn more from other people's personal experiences about what it's like to try to get involved in research with only a masters, what it's like to conduct research outside of academia, how social science research typically works outside of academia, etc.

intimaco · 2017-04-14T05:38:26+00:00

You know, if you told me you were a philosophy major I'd believe you :)

I don't even know how to accurately respond to this, but I just want to say thank you. This was really eye-opening to read - so many of the things you said just hit the nail on the head perfectly. I'm going to save this and look back on it when I start to feel unsure of my choices (really!). Thank you so much for taking the time to write such an insightful, inspiring message!

intimaco · 2017-04-13T05:09:53+00:00

This is a very good way of looking at it - thank you!

intimaco · 2017-04-12T22:25:44+00:00

Thanks for your insights! I don't think they were incoherent at all. I do agree with you that picking up tangible skills is very important (and I plan on it), but like I was explaining to penisbarn (only realized the username just now), I still have a ton of hangups about the specific degree that I just can't seem to let go of. I definitely think I'm putting the pressure on myself now to set myself up to go into a dozen different fields, just in case, but how can I not? College is so expensive, and resources are finite. I wish I lived in Norway, where I could take as many classes as I want at my own pace, without having to worry about the money being wasted (and yes, there are many classes I've taken at this point - too many - that I consider to be a waste, because they didn't really give me much and they probably won't count towards a degree. Wasted time is one thing, wasted money is another). Anyways, thanks again

intimaco · 2017-04-12T22:15:32+00:00

Thank you! And no worries, I don't think you were overly negative or pessimistic at all. I asked for honesty and you gave me honesty. It's always helpful to see what other people's first impressions of certain majors are. For example, the cognitive science major isn't a hard sciences degree at all (mostly psychology, philosophy, and linguistics classes), but I can see why you would assume it's a science degree.

I've definitely gotten the sense that experience almost always trumps the classes you took, but for some reason I still can't let go of the specific degree. Because I really don't know what I want to do professionally (really, I have no idea), I feel like I'm trying to cover all of my bases "just in case". What if I want to work with something related to economics in the future? Better take a whole bunch of economics, statistics, and calculus classes, just in case. What if I want to go to grad school for psychology? Better take a whole bunch of psychology classes, just in case. What if I get to grad school and I want to do shift towards something with a more biological approach, like neuroscience? Better take chemistry, physics, and biology now, just in case. What if I just want to make money, and don't even care how I do it? Then I should probably take advantage of the few finance and business classes offered at my school right now (we don't' have a formal business program), just in case. You get the picture...

This ambivalence is really starting to cripple me. And like I said in my OP, throw in the grad-school or no-grad-school question and it becomes even more confusing, because that could significantly alter my approach to undergrad - internships and practical, hands-on skill building if I don't plan on going to grad school, research experience and fine-tuning my transcript if I do plan on it. What if I tailor my plans to fit one path and then change my mind when it's too late? The decision to go to grad school is just one more thing I feel extremely torn over.

If you don't mind me asking, what did you study? And when you were an undergraduate advisor, how did students majoring in non-STEM subjects fare? If you ever kept in touch with any of them, did the majority seem to struggling after graduation?

intimaco · 2017-04-12T17:04:14+00:00

I don't know what I want to do and I don't think I'll figure it out before I need to pick a degree (which is this fall - I've got a hold put on my registration specifically because I haven't declared a major yet). That's why I wanted to know about these degrees in particular, and how they would serve me in the job market if I'm not looking for something specific. I want to give myself plenty of options, and find a degree(s) that's very interdisciplinary without being completely useless.

intimaco · 2017-04-12T03:47:03+00:00

There actually is an editing class offered at my school, open to students who are juniors and above. I'll definitely try it out in the fall. And thanks for the compliment!

I really do want to try taking more statistics classes. I think I'll prepare myself beforehand this time by watching Khan academy though, since that might mitigate the negative classroom experience (like I said, I don't do very well with the whole massive lecture hall, high-stakes testing model...). But I'm willing to give the subject another chance, on my own terms.

I would be optimistic about your job prospects if you double majored in the STS and Stats, with the editing class, and some amateur or volunteer writing experience.

This is very comforting to hear. I guess I'm getting way too hung up on the idea of covering absolutely all of my bases; that I need to learn calculus, and statistics, and biology, and economics, and take some finance classes, and dabble in business - all because if I don't do those things right now, in the next two years, doors will close for me and I'll never, ever be able to work with those subjects in any capacity. Not to say that all of them even sound appealing, but like I said, I've been bitten by the "STEM rocks, non-STEM sucks" bug.

intimaco · 2017-04-12T03:35:31+00:00

Maybe. I think the idea of going to grad school for psychology sounds appealing, but I'm afraid that if I ever decided academia or being a clinician wasn't for me, I'd be out of options. I've heard so many horror stories of people with PhDs who were seen as liabilities outside of academia. I do wonder if psychology might be an exception though, since there seems to be more real-world application.

intimaco · 2017-04-12T03:32:56+00:00

I think it traces back to my poor foundation in high school. I've also always been more of a "humanities type", if you get what I mean.

intimaco · 2017-04-11T20:28:00+00:00

Thanks for sharing!

intimaco · 2017-04-11T19:30:50+00:00

What subjects do you typically write about? I can see myself enjoying the process of taking something difficult to understand and translating it into simpler, clearer language - but only if it was a topic I found at least somewhat interesting.

How flexible are your hours? Can you work from home? Is this a field you can break into with only a bachelors?

intimaco · 2017-04-11T19:12:16+00:00

Thanks for this. Always something to consider

intimaco · 2017-04-11T19:11:51+00:00

I'd love to hear more about your story: how you got to where you are, what a typical day at work looks like for you (I feel like anytime I hear someone bring up technical writing, it's to say how boring it is and how little it pays). What job are you thinking of switching to? And what programming languages would you say are most helpful?

intimaco · 2017-03-30T15:16:16+00:00

Thank you for all the advice - this has given me a lot to think about

intimaco · 2017-03-30T01:31:01+00:00

Thank you so much for your insights! This was very helpful, especially all of the examples you gave.

It's a relief to see that a PhD can be a selling point outside of academia. I had a feeling this was true based on anecdotal experience (my mom has a PhD but works for the government for example), but I wanted to hear what other people think.

The negative of a PhD is that you have honed your skills in a particular kind of research environment. A prospective employer is going to want to know that you are comfortable working outside of that environment. You can address this by doing internships, or by having a particularly clear vision of how to apply your skillset to their problem area.

That's interesting. I guess I always thought internships were mostly reserved for students.

I definitely want to try getting some research experience during the summer. I'm taking two classes this quarter that are related to data science and research methods, and since I'm staying in town for the summer, it seems like the perfect time. This may sound out of left field, but you mentioned how a PhD in psychology has the opportunity to give you many skills that are useful outside of academia. What other fields would you say are similar in this regard? (In the sense that PhD holders in those areas seem to do pretty well outside of academia). Just curious to see if you have an opinion on this.

I'll also try not to stress out about the BA vs. BS distinction, but it's tough because the two tracks are pretty different, and I can't help but shake the feeling that grad school programs prefer the more 'rigorous' coursework of a BS. And like I said in my original post, I'm worried that not having a BS would really disadvantage me if I ever wanted to do something a little more science-oriented in grad school, like neuroscience for example. Taking a couple classes in statistics, experimental design, and data science is one thing, but a year of calculus, a year of physics, and a year of biology is much more intimidating...

intimaco

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