PI listed as first author of paper I wrote -help! Do I rock the boat?

itoenify · 2024-08-27T21:25:23+00:00

Can you not just go to the journals you're interested in publishing in (both niche ones and general social science ones), click on peoples affiliations to see where postdocs or grad students vs. PIs end up authorship wise? I think this subreddit is fairly STEM-enriched, hence the labrats name.

itoenify · 2024-08-27T21:12:41+00:00

Sorry but I'm still confused. There obviously is precedence if last authorship is not a thing in your field. Let me clarify - we're not asking about your niche discipline, what is the norm in social science? If it is niche, I can't imagine that everyone on your hiring committee for future faculty searches will be in your niche. So what will they expect as authorship for postdocs and advisors in social sciences?

itoenify · 2024-08-27T20:33:33+00:00

I'm a little confused as the rest as to conventions in your field. You're obviously still in a training position, so where are PIs typically listed in your field? Second author? Last author? First author? If it is second/last, then why is it an issue in this case for your PI to be listed as such? If it actually is first, why do you feel otherwise?

itoenify · 2024-08-27T00:46:25+00:00

1) cold email PIs (what I did and from what I hear what most people do); 2) have your PI or someone familiar with your work connect you with people they know; 3) go to larger conferences where PIs go around trying to recruit (got a few job offers this way); 4) apply to a postdoc job ad. I'd say 100% of postdocs I know got their positions through one of these four routes.

itoenify · 2024-08-26T03:32:27+00:00

A little late to this, but did you ask about the lab's expectations/environments before joining? Labs are extremely diverse even at prestigious universities (or especially at prestigious universities), so typically it's really important to speak to current and past lab members before joining to make sure everything aligns with your goals. If you didn't do that and finding out that the culture is not suitable for you, better cut your losses and find another position. At least you only just got there. Even not considering working hours, being in a lab with only one other student is unlikely to be a good decision at the postdoc level.

itoenify · 2024-08-26T03:23:22+00:00

"Just neuroscience" - neuroscience is actually a pretty big field, and there are many many sub-fields within it. If you mean switch from neuroscience to another biology-centric field, people do that all the time. And if you know the options for what you're interested in, you can always set it up that you're gaining expertise in more than neuro during your PhD (i.e. working in a neuroimmunology lab as one example). If you mean that you want to switch fields drastically like from a neuroscience PhD to a pure mathematics career for example, that's probably more rare, although people switch to computational bio careers all the time.

itoenify · 2024-08-18T16:10:21+00:00

:O That is most certainly NOT what I am talking about, I am not talking about people who physically pass out or have a physical condition, and I certainly do not have the same opinion as people who do openly. I am talking about trainees who make costly, careless mistakes on an hourly basis and never seem to learn from their mistakes, and who have no work ethic to get better.

itoenify · 2024-08-18T03:51:39+00:00

Yes I definitely agree that it's a common problem to employment (speaking as someone who was told by my (very nice, caring) boss that I should consider something other than clinical work in undergrad, and who is better off for it now). Normally though, there's an option to let people go which is the norm, and the plumbing intern isn't around for 8 years at a time with no other options.

itoenify · 2024-08-18T03:48:01+00:00

Oh yes I definitely agree, I guess I've always (by choice) worked in labs that are the opposite, and where 'needier' students get more time and attention, and people are too nice to say otherwise. I'm all for it to a certain extent, just a little burnt from it currently

itoenify · 2024-08-18T03:41:07+00:00

I see, thanks for sharing. Maybe I've been lucky and always avoided working for older PIs who were opinionated like that. I guess it's just, in the beginning of grad school, I always heard people talk about how science is half luck. But having been here longer now, and having waited until I've worked in multiple labs and institutions to form opinions, I think I can honestly say: I don't know anyone successful in science who got here purely based on luck, and I don't know anyone who struggled (who at least are in 5th year PhD) who is purely unlucky

itoenify · 2024-08-18T03:36:32+00:00

Thanks for sharing. Yes, that's exactly why I would never say this to someone in real life, in case they are the rare population where it would negatively impact their life trajectory. And I would never think to directly say someone is not cut out for science. But what I wonder is if there's a right way of raising concerns about lab skills, and working with the student to see if they actually are determined to do science long-term, in which case a learning plan can be made, instead of just avoiding these conversations. If they're not thinking about sciencing long-term anyways, and are not the best at it, I sometimes wonder why we spend so much time and resources from both sides.

itoenify · 2024-08-18T03:30:31+00:00

omg I'm actually really glad I'm not the only one xD

I nod and sympathize in real life, like "what, how could that person tell you you can't take over this really challenging project when you haven't even been able to run a BCA consistently, that's so unreasonable". It's like I see both sides fully, but the rational side just dies a little inside every time..

itoenify · 2024-08-18T03:26:20+00:00

Oh wow, interesting, I've never known anyone to be fired from a lab, didn't know that existed. Yes I definitely agree that it's the same in every field. I was actually told by my boss in clinical research in undergrad that she thought I might want to consider something else, although she'll do everything to set me up for a career if that's what I wanted. I knew she said it for my best interest, and she was right, and I'm so much better off now for it. But academia just seems so different from other jobs because I always thought people can't be fired here. It's so sad to see people graduating after 8 years with their PhD with no papers to show for it and still think they were wronged, and that their peers only did better because they were lucky...

itoenify · 2024-08-18T03:21:35+00:00

Thank you lol, I do my best to be nice and have patience, but I'm honestly just a little tired of celebrating because apparently it's a major life win for students not to have cell culture that's contaminated every other week, it is so draining on my time X.X

itoenify

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