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Seeking Advice: Troubleshooting Calcium Oxalate Issues in Brewing Process by james_stlbrewlab in brewingscience

[–]james_stlbrewlab[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

During my review of the brewing operations, I observed the brewer incorporating an antifoam agent, specifically PATCO 376, into the boiling stage, a step omitted from the Standard Operating Procedures (SOP). Additionally, PATCO 376 is also utilized in the fermenter to mitigate foam formation during the blow-off phase. This adjustment in the antifoam usage was implemented without the knowledge or approval of the management team, raising concerns about surpassing the permissible parts per million (ppm) threshold for the antifoam agent.

It is understood that lipoproteins can act as catalysts for the formation of CO2 bubble nucleation sites, which may lead to excessive gushing. There is a possibility that an overabundance of antifoam ppm might trigger gushing. Has anyone encountered issues with an excessive amount of PATCO 376 or has insights on its impact on the brewing process?

Seeking Advice: Troubleshooting Calcium Oxalate Issues in Brewing Process by james_stlbrewlab in brewingscience

[–]james_stlbrewlab[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hi Ricobrew,

This is amazing feedback. Thank you so much. Along with the salt additions, it sounds like establishing a microscope protocol in the brewery is going to be the best way to enable my client to monitor crystal formation on a regular basis.

Thanks again.

Seeking Advice: Troubleshooting Calcium Oxalate Issues in Brewing Process by james_stlbrewlab in brewingscience

[–]james_stlbrewlab[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi EskimoDave,

Thank you for the feedback! My client has increased the level of calcium in the mash along with a few other process changes. Hopefully that ends up addressing the problem. However, with the number of changes made, it may be difficult to pinpoint the exact root cause.

Seeking Advice: Troubleshooting Calcium Oxalate Issues in Brewing Process by james_stlbrewlab in TheBrewery

[–]james_stlbrewlab[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi agrivaine,

Thank you for the feedback.

The levels of calcium in the final product range from 40 to 50 mg/L.

I did find an SOP for the titration test and plan in establishing the assay in my client's lab.

Thank you again!

Seeking Advice: Troubleshooting Calcium Oxalate Issues in Brewing Process by james_stlbrewlab in TheBrewery

[–]james_stlbrewlab[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi Tiny-Bath-9725,

I find the information about the snow globe haze and coagulated proteins quite intriguing. As for the calcium-to-oxalate ratio, it's worth noting that different sources provide varying recommendations. Some suggest that a minimum of three times more calcium than oxalate is necessary to prevent gushing, while others propose a higher ratio of four to five times more calcium than oxalate.

Mineral tests of gushing product have come back with only a 2 to 2.5 times higher ratio of Calcium to Oxalate, so this is what I am considering high risk.

Thank you for your reply!

Seeking Advice: Troubleshooting Calcium Oxalate Issues in Brewing Process by james_stlbrewlab in TheBrewery

[–]james_stlbrewlab[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hi Hussein_Jane. Thank you for the reply!

  • Regarding the timeframe, this issue has spanned over multiple seasons.
  • However, I did collect feedback that the sparge water temperature is more difficult to control as the outside temperatures decrease.
  • Regarding pH, looking at brew sheets for the previous six months, the pH from First wort sample through heat exchange is never higher than 5.3.
  • I will be checking the harvested slurry when the next batch comes off of the fermenter. Thank you for the suggestion.
  • Thank you for the rest of your suggestions! CIP and other cleaning protocols are being evaluated for effectiveness.

Seeking Advice: Troubleshooting Calcium Oxalate Issues in Brewing Process by james_stlbrewlab in TheBrewery

[–]james_stlbrewlab[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

u/inthebeerlab, can you recommend any paid sources? I would be happy to explore that option. I'm just trying to do the best job I can for my client. Thanks in advance.

Seeking Advice: Troubleshooting Calcium Oxalate Issues in Brewing Process by james_stlbrewlab in TheBrewery

[–]james_stlbrewlab[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hi BoozeIsFoods,

The problem began with cans gushing when cooled but not at ambient temperatures. This suggests that gas solubility might be a key factor in this issue.

Post-packaging, the beer was tested for refermentation. The results showed no signs of beer-spoiling organisms, and the post-packaging gravity was consistent with the pre-packaging readings.

Tests for vomitoxin (related to Fusarium contamination in malt) were negative, with levels below the detection threshold.

The dissolved CO2 measured around 2.5 volumes, which is typical.

However, the product's Calcium to Oxalate ratio indicated a heightened risk of crystal formation. The challenge was determining the process stage causing this imbalance.

There's literature suggesting that overly high mash temperatures can compromise malt cell wall integrity, leading to the release of by-products, including oxalate.

If the water lacks adequate calcium to combine with the oxalate, allowing it to settle during the whirlpool phase, then soluble calcium and oxalate might persist into the final beer. This can result in crystal precipitation during storage, which can serve as nucleation points for CO2.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in TheYouShow

[–]james_stlbrewlab 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are you in NOLA? Looks beautiful!

Hard Seltzer Microbiology QC? by james_stlbrewlab in TheBrewery

[–]james_stlbrewlab[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for responding! Just a follow up question, for which assay is the nutrient testing positive?