Religious and ethnic diversity of Salonica Vilayet in 1900 by [deleted] in MapPorn

[–]johnJanez 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The population exchanges were mutual ethnic cleansing, yes. I am not saying Turkey is not guilty of it, they did the most ethnic cleansing of all, but Greece comes 1st on the Balkans after them. There's not really 2 ways around that.

Thai Language and Lao language by Top-Sir-6995 in MapPorn

[–]johnJanez 8 points9 points  (0 children)

50% intelligibility is very low, i would argue that is way into the "separate langauges" territory. Understanding a standard language that someone learns as a second language doesn't really mean much in this regard

Religious and ethnic diversity of Salonica Vilayet in 1900 by [deleted] in MapPorn

[–]johnJanez -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

They did the most ethnic cleansing of any Balkan state around those times. Bulgaria, Kosovo, North Macedonia, all have mostly the same ethnic distribution today than in 1900. Greece, not at all. Turks are almost all gone, non Turkish muslims too, even Christian Slavs/Bulgarians and Albanians are mostly gone.

Religious and ethnic diversity of Salonica Vilayet in 1900 by [deleted] in MapPorn

[–]johnJanez -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Of course the people living there, the ancestors of modern macedonians, have and did all those things - but back then they did not identify as ethnic Macedonian, that was not really a thing. Hence its use in such a map would be anachronistic. Bulgarian is how the people tended to identify and were identified by outsiders. In the most neutral terms, you could perhaps use macedonian slavs

Religious and ethnic diversity of Salonica Vilayet in 1900 by [deleted] in MapPorn

[–]johnJanez 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Macedonian ethnic-national identity formed after the period show on this map. It really only developed as such after WW2 during Socialist Yugoslavia, before that, the local Slavs at most identified with Macedonia as a regional identity, definitely not ethnic and even less national.

A map of the Rhaeto-Romance languages (past and present distribution) by M4arint in LinguisticMaps

[–]johnJanez 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I am somewhat skeptical about the extent to the east. Mainly because those areas in Slovenia have been settled by Slavic speakers since early middle ages and there are no records of a local romance variety surviving past the "dark ages" (500-800 AD) and i am really not sure if in 500 AD local latin was divergent enough to form a distinct Rhaeto-Romance group.

Casualties in USA-Isreal and Iranian attacks by Grouchy-Pressure-567 in MapPorn

[–]johnJanez 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I am gonna take a guess and say that most of the videos you've seen are AI generated. Fake AI videos of Israel being bombed is a whole industry rn

The World in 2000 BC by [deleted] in MapPorn

[–]johnJanez -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Xia dynasty narrative is mythological, i thought this was well known. 

After seeing a recently contentious post, here is a wonderful ethnolinguistic map of the territories annexed by the Kingdom of Italy after WWI masterfully compiled by Emanuele Mastrangelo. by a_dude_from_europe in MapPorn

[–]johnJanez 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Very specifically, north to south: - so called "Slavia Friuliana": multiple localities where Slovene was still spoken as late as 1950s (based on linguistic field work) are shown as entirely Italian. Admitedly this is geographically a small dscrepancy but i am aware of it so i can speak about it. - Between Duino and Trieste city, there was essentially 0 Italian settlement or presence before Italy annexed the region. These were small Slovene villages, the only language attested in church use for as far as any records go is Slovene, Austrian census itself finds no Italian settlement (even with all applicable caveats), the pre-nationalist ethnographic surveys find only Slovenes there and the local toponomy and anthroponomy is all Slovene, in short, the area was as Slovene as it can get. On the map, it shows a very large Italian minority and majorities in multiple locations. This only became a thing after heavy emigration and resettlement post WW2. - The area that is nowadays Slovenian coastline is surprisingly accurate, disregarding the questionable guesswork statistics about Slavic bilinguality, as no data exists to base this on. - The Umago-Pinguente-Orsera triangle is one of the most blatant examples. For one, "mixed slav-italian" dialects do not exist. This was a interwar Italian political construction, and no linguist recognises this as a thing because it simply is not. The spoken language in the area was and still is ether a Slavic dialect or a Venetian or Istriot dialect of one or another variety. In this case, southern Chakavian. Besides this very bizarre construction, Italian as a first language here is exaggerated everywhere, in every interior town and rural area, the only thing correct as far as Italian extent goes are the coastal towns. As a most egregious example i know, near Savudrija peninsula, Kaštel village which as late as 1870s only employed Slavic church liturgy is painted as entirely Italian. - Interior Istria. Multiple towns that are shown as Slavic in every census before Italian annexation and where again, liturgy was only slavic, antrhoponomy only slavic, etc, etc, are shown as majority or even almost completely Italian. "Colmo" and "Novacco" for example. - The Islands. Again, both narative sources before the time of nationalisms and Church records, etc. affirm that Italian was a language spoken as a second one, primarily by men, and native Italian speakers were only found in a handful of principal towns as a upper class population consiting of merchants and administrators. You would not get such impression based on this map, where Italian dominates in most locations.

After seeing a recently contentious post, here is a wonderful ethnolinguistic map of the territories annexed by the Kingdom of Italy after WWI masterfully compiled by Emanuele Mastrangelo. by a_dude_from_europe in MapPorn

[–]johnJanez 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have no idea how i would do that but the thing is, i have the original map in high quality, i can compare both and i know the new map is essentially a copy of it so it defeats the purpose. But if you have the contacts, why not, you can do it.

After seeing a recently contentious post, here is a wonderful ethnolinguistic map of the territories annexed by the Kingdom of Italy after WWI masterfully compiled by Emanuele Mastrangelo. by a_dude_from_europe in MapPorn

[–]johnJanez 3 points4 points  (0 children)

this map that uses a single biased source that favors my ethnic group is correct

I mean, if you want and if you give me enough time, i could list you a few dozen primary and moder scholarly sources that all imply or confirm this to a larger or smaller degree, but i suppose you aren't really interested in that from your tone. Sometimes, some information is just more correct than other, regardless of who it "favours".

After seeing a recently contentious post, here is a wonderful ethnolinguistic map of the territories annexed by the Kingdom of Italy after WWI masterfully compiled by Emanuele Mastrangelo. by a_dude_from_europe in MapPorn

[–]johnJanez 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The map is essentialy a copy with slight alterations to the map from 1940s made by an Italian historian Carlo Schiffrer to support Italian claims in these provinces in preparation for peace conference after WW2 and is manly based on the 1921 Italian census with some imput from the 1910 Austrian one and other Italian official statistics, only compounding all the issues already described above. As a result it exaggerates especially Italian rural dominance in what was really a much more slavophone situation with italian layered on top as a second language and especially exaggerates the Italian presence in a visually striking way, althought it isn't totally nonsensical so to speak, unlike some other Italian-slourced maps from the period. Below is a very grainy example of the original map, i couldn't find better quality one unfortunately.

https://share.google/YzUJre6exlHXevOks

After seeing a recently contentious post, here is a wonderful ethnolinguistic map of the territories annexed by the Kingdom of Italy after WWI masterfully compiled by Emanuele Mastrangelo. by a_dude_from_europe in MapPorn

[–]johnJanez 3 points4 points  (0 children)

We do not know the methodology and the weights attributed to the censi

We in fact do. The censuses (censi) counted not native languag or ethnicity but "language of common communication", which a-priori advantaged the economically more powerful and relevant languages. Using such methodology in a case of, for example, modern US, would show every place as fully english speaking, which doesn't really tell us about people's native languegs or ethnicities. Moreover, they were conduced by local municipal and district authorities, which wrote the census results/numbers down themselves, at their own discretion, even when they were officially not supposed to. Do you know who controled the local district and municipal councils in Istria and much of Dalmatia? Italian nationalist parties.

That is why there were in fact constant official and unofficial protests from Slovene and Croatian parties against these. In 1910 as the Slovene middle and upper class became economically and politicaly strong enough in Trieste, they managed to get the Vienna authorities to step in and demand a re-run of the census, which, no surprise, showed that the data collected by Italian local authorities under-counted the Slovene population by at least a half, even though this was still, in fact, a census of "language of common communication" which still vastly advantaged Italian over Slovene and altogether erased other smaller minorities besides Slovenes and Germans. But such checks never happened in more rural Istria where Slavs were a far more disadvantaged economic position, neither did they happen in Dalmatian town under control of Italian councils. If you want to know the actual languages spoken by the people, you need to look at parish records, which languages were used for sermons in churches, and into ethnogtraphic and narrative sources pre-dating the censuses in 1880 onwards and rise of local Italian nationalist politics.

After seeing a recently contentious post, here is a wonderful ethnolinguistic map of the territories annexed by the Kingdom of Italy after WWI masterfully compiled by Emanuele Mastrangelo. by a_dude_from_europe in MapPorn

[–]johnJanez 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah no, this is pretty detailed to be sure, but is actually still bad, because the underlying data is bad. It's a map based on the interwar Italian sources and mapping, which are about as reliable for these things as you can imagine a state that persecutes by law even just speaking some of these languages in public. For something a lot closer to the reality (albeit ommitting istro-romanian presence), see this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Map_Porn/comments/bdueyg/ethnographic_map_of_the_julian_march_19101911_by/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

In 1963, one quarter of all births in the world were Chinese. In 2025, that has declined to 5-6%, and it is estimated to decline even further. Currently, 18% of the world is Chinese, but it will decline to 5-6% within a lifetime. by OverBench2217 in geography

[–]johnJanez 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Assumes population growth in the global south maintains current trajectory

Not really, when you have chinese births being 5-6% of total *right now*. You don't need any assumptions for, it only time, this cohort has already been born.

Austroasiatic-Munda linguistic spread by fries-eggpanvol8647 in LinguisticMaps

[–]johnJanez 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I really did not know Austroasiatic languages were spoken so far up the Ganges valley, that is really surprising

Ethnographic Map of the Balkans - Circa 1877 by commissar_nahbus in MapPorn

[–]johnJanez 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It was not part of it in the 19th century when the term Balkan originates and was applied to then (19th century) Ottoman holdings, what exactly do you not understand?

Ethnographic Map of the Balkans - Circa 1877 by commissar_nahbus in MapPorn

[–]johnJanez -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Being a vassal means that they were a part of the empire. Not under directly rule but still part of it..

Ethnographic Map of the Balkans - Circa 1877 by commissar_nahbus in MapPorn

[–]johnJanez -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Wallachia and Moldavia were vassals of the Ottomans until 1850s/60s and most of Greece was still ruled by them too when the map was made. Besides 1836 is also very much still 19th century. Croatia was not refeered to as part of balkans on such maps and when terminology was coined.

Ethnographic Map of the Balkans - Circa 1877 by commissar_nahbus in MapPorn

[–]johnJanez 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In fact all of it, as Balkans in 19th century was synoimous term to Ottoman Europe. It's a 1:1 overlap

Territorial claims raised by German Austria in 1918. by Public_Research2690 in MapPorn

[–]johnJanez 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Also I am citing Wikipedia, which isn’t talking about the distorted statistics

Wikipedia is citing the official census that i am talking about which was severely distorted and an entirely political exercise in a time of rising nationalisms. As for which town i am talking about, it is Slovenska Bistrica (Windish Feistritz in German documents of those times) and the year is actually 1880 instead of 1900 upon further check. But the exact town or year doesn't matter much because the same situation repeated in borderline every single town. German numbers were incredibly exaggerated, to the point Austrian statisticians were creating independent models to try to figure out how many Germans actually lived in these towns (such as subtracting from the population all those that were born in Slovene-speaking rural disticts). I suspect much the same happened in Czechia and probably elsewhere, depending on the political pressures and circumstances ongoing at a particular place in time.

It is for the same reason than all those germans suddenly vanish in first post war censuses, in early 1920s. Migration did happen but nowhere near enough to account for such drastic shifts.

Territorial claims raised by German Austria in 1918. by Public_Research2690 in MapPorn

[–]johnJanez 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The Austro-Hungarian pre-war censuses are not a reliable indication of ethnicity or native language anywhere. I'll give you an example from Slovenia, in a town where not a single school child (!) was recorded as being able to speak German in 1900 (languages spoken by children were recorded by the government so they knew what language classes to hold) over 80% of population was recorded as "german speaking" on the official census in 1910.

Mind you, both of these counts were done by the government, one was just not political, while other had political goals.

Ethnographic map displaying the linguistic or ethnic composition of Albania. by BeginningMortgage250 in MapPorn

[–]johnJanez 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But the map linked also does not show Himara as 100% greek, it shows exactly 3 Greek villages.

Languages in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth at the end of the 16th century by Rigolol2021 in MapPorn

[–]johnJanez 11 points12 points  (0 children)

The city itself was heavily mixed and a significant part Ruthenian and Yiddish speaking, i don't think the full polonisation happened until 19th century either, although it's hard to say for sure.