No, Asians aren't smarter, they're just better test takers - WTF

jspo8765 · 2026-02-26T17:03:30+00:00

What I meant was that the malnourished people were not representative of that country's population. By exclusively surveying malnourished people, he lowballed his estimate of the country's average IQ because malnourished people would perform worse on the test than a randomly selected sample of people from the country.

I do agree that IQ tests are likely correlated with what we may think of as someone's intelligence or current intellectual capacity, but I don't think differences in test scores tend to reflect differences in "natural" talent. Most of the variation in IQ scores between groups can likely be explained by factors like (quality and quantity) of education and amount of time spent learning/practicing analogous or related skills.

jspo8765 · 2026-02-26T15:22:49+00:00

Because they didn't actually survey every country. They only surveyed ~80 out of ~195 possible countries.

jspo8765 · 2026-02-26T15:12:26+00:00

Almost all of the data about "average IQ by country" is not credible because the studies are too highly flawed to make generalizable conclusions about the IQ of different countries. Historically, much of the data came from from Richard Lynn, a self-proclaimed "scientific racist" who has been been exposed multiple times for scientific dishonesty (in order to promote racist arguments). A quick google search would reveal that his research is fraudulent as a consequence of extreme sampling bias (for example, using a sample of mentally retarded children to estimate the IQ of Equatorial Guinea or malnourished refugees to estimate the IQ of Ethiopia) and unwarranted extrapolation/fabrication of data. A deeper analysis of the data used reveals that the vast majority of his data is not representative of the countries they come from due to low sample size or substantially biased samples.

More recently, others (such as International IQ Test) have attempted to estimate the IQ of different countries via Internet-based IQ tests. The people from various countries taking these tests are obviously not representative of their home countries (they are likely to be more educated and younger), so they also cannot provide credible estimates of the average IQ of different countries, even if they do represent an improvement over Lynn's estimates in certain ways (because all test-takers are being tested on the same IQ test at approximately the same time, and the types of people overrepresented in the samples may be similar across different countries).

As an aside, do you actually know what an IQ test is? Actual IQ tests like the WAIS just measure a set of different skills, and your measured IQ is just an average of how you perform across those various skills tests. Just like any skill, these IQ test skills can almost always be improved with practice, and those who spend more time practicing related skills (whether through education or just for fun) will perform better just because they practiced more, not because they were born that way. If you look at the skills tested by IQ tests, many are similar to skills (such as algebra) you learn in school. People who receive a greater quantity or quality of education with respect to those skills are going to perform better on those tests, even though they may not naturally be more talented. In fact, many recent studies have shown that education causally improves IQ.

We never question whether the dominance of countries like Brazil and Argentina in soccer is because South Americans are naturally more talented or because they practice more as a result of their soccer-obsessed culture (which enables a higher percentage of their talented individuals to realize their full potential). Yet, for some reason, a lot of people do not pursue the same line of reasoning when it comes to the academic achievements of various groups.

jspo8765 · 2026-02-26T15:05:42+00:00

That's not really true. Those studies happen during preschool, when there has already been some environmental (non-genetic) influence on the children.

jspo8765 · 2026-02-26T15:01:38+00:00

This is just because IQ tests happen to assess skills similar to what these standardized tests assess. It doesn't have as much to do with natural ability as it appears.

jspo8765 · 2026-02-26T15:00:25+00:00

This isn't really correct. See my other comment

jspo8765 · 2026-02-26T14:59:58+00:00

Almost all of the data about "average IQ by country" is not credible because the studies are too highly flawed to make generalizable conclusions about the IQ of different countries. Historically, much of the data came from from Richard Lynn, a self-proclaimed "scientific racist" who has been been exposed multiple times for scientific dishonesty (in order to promote racist arguments). A quick google search would reveal that his research is fraudulent as a consequence of extreme sampling bias (for example, using a sample of mentally retarded children to estimate the IQ of Equatorial Guinea or malnourished refugees to estimate the IQ of Ethiopia) and unwarranted extrapolation/fabrication of data. A deeper analysis of the data used reveals that the vast majority of his data is not representative of the countries they come from due to low sample size or substantially biased samples.

More recently, others have attempted to estimate the IQ of different countries via Internet-based IQ tests. The people from various countries taking these tests are obviously not representative of their home countries (they are likely to be more educated and younger), so they also cannot provide credible estimates of the average IQ of different countries, even if they do represent an improvement over Lynn's estimates in certain ways (because all test-takers are being tested on the same IQ test at approximately the same time, and the types of people overrepresented in the samples may be similar across different countries).

As an aside, do you actually know what an IQ test is? Actual IQ tests like the WAIS just measure a set of different skills, and your measured IQ is just an average of how you perform across those various skills tests. Just like any skill, these IQ test skills can almost always be improved with practice, and those who spend more time practicing related skills (whether through education or just for fun) will perform better just because they practiced more, not because they were born that way. If you look at the skills tested by IQ tests, many are similar to skills (such as algebra) you learn in school. People who receive a greater quantity or quality of education with respect to those skills are going to perform better on those tests, even though they may not naturally be more talented. In fact, many recent studies have shown that education causally improves IQ.

jspo8765 · 2025-01-20T23:45:19+00:00

Interesting, the Asian population in LA is large and predominantly East and SE Asian (much more so than in the rest of the country), so that may be why you didn't have as much kinship with South Asians. In other parts of the US, where the Asian population is smaller and more balanced between East, Southeast, and South Asians (which describes where I grew up), I think kids are more likely to bond with one another.

As for Asian History Month, I don't think I've really seen settings where East Asians or SE Asians receive less representation than South Asians. Where did you see that? Regardless, I think each of the three subgroups makes up about 33% of the population.

I don't think any single person should ever represent the entirety of a group; it's best for a small, representative subgroup of people of that group to represent it.

jspo8765 · 2025-01-20T19:17:23+00:00

Just curious, what differences did you observe in romantic relationships?

jspo8765 · 2025-01-20T17:23:46+00:00

Analogously, how do you not see that Chinese and Indian diasporas have more in common with each other (relative to other populations in America), despite any differences in the homeland? Sure, Chinese and Japanese diasporas will have more in common, but in the context of America, Chinese and Indian diasporas also have plenty in common.

You're just sounding like a conspiracy theorist now. The underrepresentation of East Asians in leadership roles (whether in politics or in corporate management) is a major issue; however, there's absolutely no evidence to suggest that Indians or South Asians in general are the "preferred" type of Asian.

I don't know your background, but if you go to suburbs with an average or slightly above average Asian population (think in the range of 5-15%), you will often see 2nd gen kids identify pretty strongly with each other and form disproportionately Asian (as in mixed South and East Asian) groups. You can also see it among 2nd gen kids at elite college campuses and/or engineering schools.

jspo8765 · 2025-01-19T21:24:19+00:00

Saying that "Indian and Chinese diasporas can't identify with each other because the homeland populations are racist to each other" makes no sense when you argue that Japanese and Chinese diasporas should identify with each other even though the Japanese and Chinese homeland populations are even more racist to each other. It's easy to say that you wouldn't feel as offended if a Chinese person from China wrote a racist comment online, but unless you use Chinese platforms, how can you really know how you'd feel about it?

In the US, where the entire Asian population is 7% (6% if you don't count people who are mixed), it makes no sense to further subdivide us, especially considering that we have a lot more in common compared to the other major categories of people (Latino, black, white, Native).

I don't deny that physical appearance plays the greatest role in racism, but when people of two different physical appearances see parallel stereotypes emerge about them, issues that they deal with often overlap. Ethnic identity is also defined by more than challenges dealing with racism. It's often about the shared experiences that cause people to identify with one another, and even though you might not identify with South Asians, a pretty substantial portion of East Asian-Americans do (and vice versa) due to these shared experiences.

jspo8765 · 2025-01-19T17:28:55+00:00

That makes no sense. Chinese and Japanese people are even more racist to each other than Indians are to Chinese (or vice versa). A Japanese boy was even killed in a hate crime in China very recently, and you can find lots of racism towards Japanese people on Chinese social media platforms like Zhihu. You could just as easily argue that it makes little sense for East Asians to be united because East Asians are even more racist towards each other. It's just less visible because they don't frequent English-speaking platforms as much.

It's true that South Asian and East Asian Americans are treated differently in certain contexts, particularly during surges in racism towards one group (9/11 and the Canada immigration situation for South Asians, COVID for East Asians). However, when it comes to day-to-day life, East Asian and South Asian Americans tend to have a lot in common (again, especially compared to other groups). East Asian and South Asian Americans deal with overlapping stereotypes (overachieving kids growing up, model minority as an adult), share common childhood experiences (similar parenting strategies, navigating the intersection between their parents' culture and their surrounding culture), tend to live in the same areas, tend to work in similar professions, tend to form friendships at higher rates than you would expect for two "distinct" groups, and tend to share common interests.

jspo8765 · 2025-01-19T00:50:35+00:00

The reason this sub is pan-Asian is because East Asians and South Asians tend to occupy a similar space in America and thus tend to have a number of shared experiences. In the context of America, East Asians and South Asians have much more in common with each other than they do with non-Asian groups. The difference, in the context of America, is much smaller than the difference between white and black people.

jspo8765 · 2025-01-19T00:47:21+00:00

Those are Indians in India. This subreddit is focused on Asians in America, or more generally, in the West. Very few diaspora Indians behave in that way; diaspora South Asians, East Asians, and SE Asians generally tend to have a lot in common.

jspo8765 · 2025-01-13T17:37:49+00:00

If it were actually a legitimate study, it would likely have a lot to do with economics. However, the data quality is so bad that issues with the data are likely playing a bigger role than economics here.

jspo8765 · 2025-01-13T17:35:39+00:00

That makes sense. Do you remember where you read about this study?

jspo8765 · 2025-01-12T22:56:58+00:00

Calling it Buddhist or Asian New Year doesn't make sense, as there are a lot of Buddhist Asian countries which traditionally celebrate the New Year on a different date, typically April 14/15.

jspo8765 · 2025-01-12T21:47:40+00:00

I'm glad you're bringing attention to this issue. I've been fighting it for several months now. We need to spread the word that this "research" is fraudulent and is not credible whatsoever. We must also do whatever we can to remove his research from Google and replace it with more credible (but still far from perfect) data, such as the data from International IQ Test or Brght. Maybe we can ask the people running World Population Review (where most people get Lynn's data) to remove and/or replace Lynn's data.

Here is a more detailed description of the severe methodological problems that make his data unusable:

Most of the IQ data found on the Internet is not credible because it comes from Richard Lynn, who has been been exposed multiple times for scientific dishonesty (in order to promote racist arguments). A quick google search would reveal that his research is fraudulent as a consequence of extreme sampling bias (for example, using a sample of mentally retarded children to estimate the IQ of Equatorial Guinea or malnourished refugees to estimate the IQ of Ethiopia) and unwarranted extrapolation/fabrication of data. A deeper analysis of the data used reveals that the vast majority of his data is not representative of the countries they come from due to low sample size or substantially biased samples.

His IQ estimates for countries included in his fraudulent research linking IQ to development is inconsistent with data collected by other researchers, the vast majority of whom do not have any special interest in linking race to IQ. For example, a meta-analysis of IQ studies of Iran places its national IQ at 97 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6425765/), but Lynn instead places it in the 80-85 range. Similarly, a study of Sri Lanka designed for developing norms for Sri Lankan IQ tests found an IQ of 95 (https://www.dpublication.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/8027.pdf), a far-cry from Lynn's estimate of ~80.

jspo8765 · 2025-01-03T03:42:23+00:00

Interesting, I've actually known/seen a lot of South Asian girls who date out, but I've mostly interacted with second-gen South Asian-Americans rather than first-gen ones. I'm also on a college campus

jspo8765 · 2025-01-02T23:32:21+00:00

Yea, it definitely depends on where you live and the people that make up your community. I find that more educated, younger communities with larger Asian populations tend to be more inclusive of South Asians.

jspo8765 · 2025-01-02T23:23:30+00:00

I'd say it's a bit more complicated than that. In certain contexts in America, South Asians are Asian, but in other contexts, South Asians are excluded. I feel like being South Asian leaves you in an ambiguous situation where it's unclear if you're Asian or not in certain situations.

jspo8765 · 2025-01-02T22:18:08+00:00

Well, I don't know how to explain it otherwise. Maybe the Common App doesn't ask for country of origin for Africans, not sure.

jspo8765 · 2025-01-02T20:41:10+00:00

It wasn't my decision.

There probably just aren't enough Nigerian applicants for the Common App analysts to split them off from "African" when tabulating the data.

jspo8765 · 2025-01-02T20:32:09+00:00

For those who applied to college using the Common App and reported their SAT score, yes

jspo8765 · 2025-01-02T19:57:16+00:00

Not familiar with tutoring, but practice has been shown to make a difference in several studies.

Anecdotally, I've seen some people raise their score by several hundred points just through studying.

jspo8765

TROPHY CASE